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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
An 83 HO with an automatic transmission? I've always been of the understanding that 83 HOs came with manuals ONLY.
When I ordered my 83 HO, I, supposedly, had no choice. So I learned to drive a stick while I waited for it to arrive. I've never gone back to an auto in any of my cars and trucks. So if it was available with an auto, then I'm glad I didn't know about it lol.
Ive seen a few with autos. Maybe not 83s but most HO cars ive seen were 5spd/3.73 geared and they were an absolute blast to drive. Im still in the market for one its definitely on my bucket list of cars.
This is super interesting. There was 3223 of these produced and from what everything I have ever read or seen, they all were manual transmissions in 83. VIN checks out as a HO car. It also is odd that the shifter **** is not leather but hard plastic as with the non-Z28 cars. Hmmm...either a unicorn or something is fishy with this one. Certainly not an expert anymore on the early cars but this one definitely has me scratching my head...
I too always thought that the 83' 305HO was only available with a 5-speed and the auto was not available until 84'. The VIN on this car certainly indicates it's an 83' and a 305HO and the typical 305HO stuff is there (dual snorkel air cleaner, electric fan, 5500rpm tach). It's very unlikely that the 5-speed was swapped for an auto, so I would be inclined to believe its for real. It's a May 1983 build, so relatively late in the model year and maybe they started allowing autos toward the end of 83', but it just wasn't well published.
Interesting car and in nice shape. The lack of options, brown vinyl interior and no A/C is pretty unappealing though.
Mine was a June/83 build, received it the first week of July. But the dealer and I wrote-up the order long before the HO was released for production, then sat on it until it could be submitted. So unless the "manual only" changed after we wrote it up, and I've never heard that it did, then this car shouldn't exist... unless it was built for someone who had the authority to make such a change to his build, if that's possible.
There was a seemingly knowledgeable person at my dealer when I was ordering it that said there was supposed to be a special "Signature Series" of HO cars. But if such a series ever existed, I don't know. It sounded like BS at the time, and I've never heard of it since. But if true, then maybe it could've come with an auto?
But as has been pointed out, the pictures of this car appear to document its existence.
Don't believe everything you read on TGO. Most of that document goes back to the dark ages of the internet. It's been so chopped and screwed it's little more than a guideline at this point.
Mine was a June/83 build, received it the first week of July. But the dealer and I wrote-up the order long before the HO was released for production, then sat on it until it could be submitted...
FWIW, mine is also a mid/late June build and took delivery late June. I'd have to look at the paperwork for the actual date, (probably mid May), but the order went in immediately after I placed it. The only option available was the 5-speed.
I'd like to be able to see the firewall where the clutch linkage comes through, would tell the tale if the car was swapped or built this way. Sure seems like it was likely built this way, but then why the auto I wonder.....
I'd like to be able to see the firewall where the clutch linkage comes through, would tell the tale if the car was swapped or built this way. Sure seems like it was likely built this way, but then why the auto I wonder.....
It has the column from a manual car. You can see the key release by the ignition. Spid would tell all.
It certainly is curious that it has a manual transmission steering column.
I know. How often do you think about switching out the steering column when you do a manual to auto transmission swap. The majority (growing daily) that have only driven an automatic equipped vehicle don't know that thing even exists much less what it is.
I know. How often do you think about switching out the steering column when you do a manual to auto transmission swap. The majority (growing daily) that have only driven an automatic equipped vehicle don't know that thing even exists much less what it is.
That steering column is an interesting observation. That said I've had non-Firebird/Camaro vehicles with a floor mounted automatic shift, 70s-80s, that also had a lock on the column preventing the key from turning to off without depressing the column lock lever.
How does a car with under 40k miles lose the plastic cover on the key release lever? This car seems like a bag of smashed *******s. A clean bag of smashed *******s, but smashed *******s none the less.
That steering column is an interesting observation. That said I've had non-Firebird/Camaro vehicles with a floor mounted automatic shift, 70s-80s, that also had a lock on the column preventing the key from turning to off without depressing the column lock lever.
My 82 has the key release lever and it's a factory automatic car. Over the years I've been told that my column must have been replaced, but there are no obvious signs of removal. I've just assumed it has.
The SPID didn't come round until 1984. But maybe if someone sends them a kindly worded email, they'd rip out the seats, cut the springs and remove the build sheet. Then we could debate if the car is worthless because they cut the seat spring wires...
The SPID didn't come round until 1984. But maybe if someone sends them a kindly worded email, they'd rip out the seats, cut the springs and remove the build sheet. Then we could debate if the car is worthless because they cut the seat spring wires...
Hypothetically... If this were the ONLY 1983 Z28 with a 305 HO and an automatic transmission, would that somehow make it worth all the tea in China? Or would it just be another ignored early thirdgen with an odd combo? Or on the flip side, if this was a 5spd that was converted to an auto, would that completely tank the value? Considering that from at least this angle, from what we can see, the only thing we can tell is that it's got the wrong column and some suspicious wear, does it greatly impact the value of the car? More or less than having the doors and fenders drilled for the rivet-on side moldings?
If the trans was swapped, and the only corner cut was leaving the 5spd column, I'm not sure that it really hurts the value all that much. At least from this vantage point, it doesn't look like they cut many corners or hacked it together. If they did convert from a 5spd to an auto, they at least took the time to put auto pedals in it, some would have jsut removed the clutch pedal and left the skinny brake pedal. And really does the potential trans swap matter more or less than how the car appears to have a lot more than 37k miles worth of wear on the brake pedal pad? Or that the lettering is worn off the shift plate? Or that the leather is missing from the shifter ****? These could be indicators the auto trans parts were removed from a donor car with higher mileage, or that the car in question has higher mileage itself. Which is worse?
From what we can tell from the listing, the car could be both... It's a converted 5spd car, and it's had it's odometer rolled (at least once), and it's a true factory oddity, until someone digs in and documents what it really is. That means either build sheet, or invoice, or look under the console and see if it looks like Edward Can-Opener-Hands has been at work patching the hole in the floor.
My 82 has the key release lever and it's a factory automatic car. Over the years I've been told that my column must have been replaced, but there are no obvious signs of removal. I've just assumed it has.
My family had a 1982 Berlinetta with the 4-speed manual. It was my first car (until I gave it away with 227,000 miles on it).
Honestly I don't recall it having the key release lever on the steering column. Maybe my memory is shaky since I haven't owned the
car for 20+ years, but can someone else with a 1982 stick shift comment on this?
Certainly, my 1987 IROC (stick shift) has the key release lever.
I just wonder when they introduced that safety regulation.
My family had a 1982 Berlinetta with the 4-speed manual. It was my first car (until I gave it away with 227,000 miles on it).
Honestly I don't recall it having the key release lever on the steering column. Maybe my memory is shaky since I haven't owned the
car for 20+ years, but can someone else with a 1982 stick shift comment on this?
Certainly, my 1987 IROC (stick shift) has the key release lever.
I just wonder when they introduced that safety regulation.
The lever key release is a must have safety item on all stick shift cars, I'm sure your Berli had one unless the column was swapped.
Hypothetically... If this were the ONLY 1983 Z28 with a 305 HO and an automatic transmission, would that somehow make it worth all the tea in China? Or would it just be another ignored early thirdgen with an odd combo? Or on the flip side, if this was a 5spd that was converted to an auto, would that completely tank the value? Considering that from at least this angle, from what we can see, the only thing we can tell is that it's got the wrong column and some suspicious wear, does it greatly impact the value of the car? More or less than having the doors and fenders drilled for the rivet-on side moldings?
If the trans was swapped, and the only corner cut was leaving the 5spd column, I'm not sure that it really hurts the value all that much. At least from this vantage point, it doesn't look like they cut many corners or hacked it together. If they did convert from a 5spd to an auto, they at least took the time to put auto pedals in it, some would have jsut removed the clutch pedal and left the skinny brake pedal. And really does the potential trans swap matter more or less than how the car appears to have a lot more than 37k miles worth of wear on the brake pedal pad? Or that the lettering is worn off the shift plate? Or that the leather is missing from the shifter ****? These could be indicators the auto trans parts were removed from a donor car with higher mileage, or that the car in question has higher mileage itself. Which is worse?
From what we can tell from the listing, the car could be both... It's a converted 5spd car, and it's had it's odometer rolled (at least once), and it's a true factory oddity, until someone digs in and documents what it really is. That means either build sheet, or invoice, or look under the console and see if it looks like Edward Can-Opener-Hands has been at work patching the hole in the floor.
I think the car is worth very little because it has an automatic trans. Doesn't matter if it's been swapped or not, an automatic trans is the #1 way to ruin these cars in stock form, especially an L69 car. Unless the PO was a paralyzed from the waist down, a 700R4 is NEVER the right answer on these cars...
The '83 Z28 L69 was only available in manual, so this car has been modified.
I had a manual trans '83 LG4 back in 1985 and I don't remember having the key lock switch, but my '82 4 speed does. I'm not saying the '83 didn't, I'm just saying that I don't remember that minor feature from 35 years ago. The auto cars wouldn't have that feature as the key doesn't turn to the off position until the car is in Park.
The auto cars wouldn't have that feature as the key doesn't turn to the off position until the car is in Park.
This is exactly why all 'stick cars have the lever key release. If anything bumped, pulled or tugged the ignition switch or your key ring on a 'stick car there is nothing to keep the key from rotating all the way back and locking the column while the car is still in motion. With the key release, even if the ignition gets turned off it won't go all the way back to lock the column.
I reached out to GM Media Archive and they confirmed that this 1983 Z28 L69 vehicle being discussed originally had the 5-speed manual transmission from the factory, per the invoice.
Even though the information and experience our members have would suggest this vehicle may have been altered, it's good to have concrete information and to continue to learn.
Not to mention the ad claims the transmission is original:
Powering this 83' Camaro Z28 is the original 5.0L 305 CID 4BBL V8 engine that is mated to the original 4-speed automatic overdrive transmission.
That depends how they handled the holes in the floor and firewall. It could be easily reversed or a complete nightmare. For all we know there could be a part of a stop sign, some drywall screws and 4 cans of Great Stuff foam hiding under that console.
The lever key release is a must have safety item on all stick shift cars, I'm sure your Berli had one unless the column was swapped.
My father ordered the 1982 Berlinetta directly from the factory (probably hard to get a four-speed stick off the dealer lot), so it definitely had the original column.
Since I used the car every day for almost ten years, depressing the lever probably became an automatic motion for me when I had to remove the key, and
I no longer remember that detail. Scott (see above) also mentioned not remembering a lever in a 1983 Camaro, yet his 1982 pace car has the lever, so our car must
have had it too.
In GM applications it's easy, just hit it with a finger while turning the key back, it's instinctive. Later thirdgens have a push button on the lock cylinder next to the key, again, easy. Then I go to drive my brand F beater, it's got a huge white button under the column, a two hander... Barf.
The auto cars wouldn't have that feature as the key doesn't turn to the off position until the car is in Park.
To be clear, while in context I believe you're only speaking for this application, my previous comment about the key release being on some vehicles with automatics had Ford in mind.
Best picture I have is this 1986 Cougar with the automatic floor shift. The white button under the steering column is the key release:
I know this was the case on Fords with the floor shift automatic, not sure about GMs, but at some point this did get eliminated.
GM almost exclusively used the shifter interlock. All the way back to the second gens, with a cable from the auto floor shifter and the collar on the column turning with the shifter like a column shifter.
It works both ways. It keeps you from removing the key unless the shifter is in park, thus the column doesnt lock unless the shifter is in park, and also the shifter won't come out of park with the column locked.
Correct it becomes an unnoticed step. Much like the parking brake or seatbelt, you notice not doing it.
...and I catch myself reaching for this non-existent lever in my other 2 cars when I get go to turn the ignitions off and then quickly realize I'm not in the 82 when my finger doesn't touch a lever. Or when I haven't driven the 82 for awhile, like all winter and try to turn it off and can't, I'm puzzled, then OH YEA! tap the lever.
Am I blind or did I not see the price?
More and more Im leaning towards finding an early Z they seem to be unwanted and not hacked up as much.
37k is a decent mi number but its no virgin...dig the brown interior kind of oddball.
That would make a perfect every day driver.
Am I blind or did I not see the price?
More and more Im leaning towards finding an early Z they seem to be unwanted and not hacked up as much.
37k is a decent mi number but its no virgin...dig the brown interior kind of oddball.
That would make a perfect every day driver.
the price is 18,999 ,lol ... thats low mile iroc money right there
I too always thought that the 83' 305HO was only available with a 5-speed and the auto was not available until 84'. The VIN on this car certainly indicates it's an 83' and a 305HO and the typical 305HO stuff is there (dual snorkel air cleaner, electric fan, 5500rpm tach). It's very unlikely that the 5-speed was swapped for an auto, so I would be inclined to believe its for real. It's a May 1983 build, so relatively late in the model year and maybe they started allowing autos toward the end of 83', but it just wasn't well published.
Interesting car and in nice shape. The lack of options, brown vinyl interior and no A/C is pretty unappealing though.
I own this car. It was not a conversion. The car has never been apart an experience eye can tell that when looking at in person the paint is original
paint has 3.73 posi
the only non original items are the tires, the radio and exhaust. The interior is in the best shape I’ve ever seen. Even still has the original style dash pad. So it’s not a car that has 137k on it brake pedal pad where would very based on the environment driven in weather it was city or highway miles
It is a late build 1983 car. May 83. I suspect it was and internal production order an am working to get an answer on it. It is an ac delete car. I know people who were plant managers and have said. These types of oddball cars were produced from time
as with any car value it ultimately determined by the person who buys the car
As I find more information I will post those discoveries
At that point in time (1983), there were absolutely ways in which a Camaro could be ordered with Options that were not part of the Package purchased.
It was not done the way that a First-Gen COPO Camaro was ordered.
In 1983, a particular Dealership would have to place the Order, particular RPOs would have to be chosen...
and there was a Third step to the process, that everyone who claimed to be "in the Know", refused to tell me.
So essentially, the process was not to different than Ordering one of the earliest 1LE Third-Gens.
A person could not just walk into their local Dealership, and say: "I want to purchase a 1LE".
I wish you guys good luck trying to figure this stuff out.
Being a Third-Gen enthusiast...
I tried to dig up actual documents in the Engineering Archives (while I was with GM).
But I had no luck... only rumors existed.
I own this car. It was not a conversion. The car has never been apart an experience eye can tell that when looking at in person the paint is original
paint has 3.73 posi
the only non original items are the tires, the radio and exhaust. The interior is in the best shape I’ve ever seen. Even still has the original style dash pad. So it’s not a car that has 137k on it brake pedal pad where would very based on the environment driven in weather it was city or highway miles
It is a late build 1983 car. May 83. I suspect it was and internal production order an am working to get an answer on it. It is an ac delete car. I know people who were plant managers and have said. These types of oddball cars were produced from time
as with any car value it ultimately determined by the person who buys the car
As I find more information I will post those discoveries
Welcome to ThirdGen!
Last year, when this topic was discussed, I had reached out to GM Media Archive about this vehicle when there was some questions about the originality. GM Media Archive pulled the invoice for this car and they informed me the invoice shows the 5-speed. So either this vehicle was modified after it left the factory, the GM invoice is in error, or the wrong VIN was researched.
...As I find more information I will post those discoveries
Would you be willing to search for the build sheet? I was able to remove it from under the driver's seat in my 83 L69 without too much trouble. I can't remember if I had to remove the seat first. Definitely didn't cut any wires! The other one was found sticking out behind the trim panels somewhere in the back seat area.
Pull the cover off of the console and look for the hole that is there for a manual car, it's huge. Automatic equipped cars have NO HOLE. Post pics and it is the end of the story here.
Possibly another way to check is the ECM RPO. In ‘84 the auto and manual cars used different ECM. Can be seen on the build sheet, label on the ECM, and the under-hood emissions label.
But the hole in the floor. Start there. Likely end there.
If converted to auto, I’d have no concerns about that. Fun cars in either configuration.
03-06-2020, 02:37 PM
This car seems like a bag of smashed *******s. A clean bag of smashed *******s, but smashed *******s none the less. 
