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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
I posted this auction car the other day, but the more i dig into it, the odder it gets.....What tipped me off to start digging was the Z28 badge on the console that did not have the "Iroc-Z" below it. I stopped and physically looked at the car today, so the photos are accurate....
* The RPO sticker in the console lists the VIN# as 1G1FP87F0GN169617, but the VIN# on the car is 1G1FP87F2GN169618
The RPO Codes do not show that it is an Iroc, shows it does not have power locks, and has power seats. Below is the RPO sticker and some photos of the car. Z28 badge No Power Seats 145 MPH Speedometer Car as it sits 16" wheels Power Locks
I'd agree, if the VINs weren't 169617 and 169618. Chances of randomly getting the very next sequence number down when buying a used console lid are slim to none.
Oh boy, that's weird. The VIN on the RPO sticker doesn't even show a single record on Carfax other than the seatbelt button recall being issued in 1990, which makes me wonder if that VIN was ever even put on an actual car. Only other thing I can think of would be that the 169617 car hasn't been on the road in 30+ years. Plenty of records for your car (169618), all from IN, but none since 2014.
I would assume that this is just a simple factory mistake -- the cars were next to each other on the assembly line, and someone goofed and mixed up the center console lids. Never seen anything like this though (wrong options and VIN off by 1 digit). Nothing else would make sense, I don't think.
Seeing how the last 6 numbers of both VINs are only one number apart (169617 VS 169618) I'd be inclined to believe the wrong SPID sticker got put on when it was being built VS the console being changed at a later date. Can you imagine the odds of some years down the road needing a console and buying one from a junkyard that was only one VIN number off?
Last edited by OrangeBird; Oct 6, 2021 at 03:54 PM.
Reason: fix typos
Oh boy, that's weird. The VIN on the RPO sticker doesn't even show a single record on Carfax other than the seatbelt button recall being issued in 1990, which makes me wonder if that VIN was ever even put on an actual car. Only other thing I can think of would be that the 169617 car hasn't been on the road in 30+ years. Plenty of records for your car (169618), all from IN, but none since 2014.
I would assume that this is just a simple factory mistake -- the cars were next to each other on the assembly line, and someone goofed and mixed up the center console lids. Never seen anything like this though (wrong options and VIN off by 1 digit). Nothing else would make sense, I don't think.
I spoke to a friend of mine that worked for GM, and his guess was as it went thru the factory being assembled, something got switched to the wrong car and somehow the RPO sticker of the car being built ahead of it got on this car by accident. The plate on the car shows it last being renewed in 2015, so it has sat a while.
I spoke to a friend of mine that worked for GM, and his guess was as it went thru the factory being assembled, something got switched to the wrong car and somehow the RPO sticker of the car being built ahead of it got on this car by accident. The plate on the car shows it last being renewed in 2015, so it has sat a while.
That certainly sounds plausible. As far as proving that the car you're looking at is an IROC, I would do some more digging. Off the top of my head, the only thing I can think to check is to make sure it has the Wonderbar up front, although that can always be added. Maybe check to make sure that the sway bars are the right size as well.
That certainly sounds plausible. As far as proving that the car you're looking at is an IROC, I would do some more digging. Off the top of my head, the only thing I can think to check is to make sure it has the Wonderbar up front, although that can always be added. Maybe check to make sure that the sway bars are the right size as well.
Thanks. I appreciate your input. I'll check that at the auction on Saturday.
I'd agree, if the VINs weren't 169617 and 169618. Chances of randomly getting the very next sequence number down when buying a used console lid are slim to none.
Yup, ashamed to say I didn't catch that before I posted. I would agree with the consensus that these were obviously back to back on the line and switched RPO stickers by mistake.
Yup, ashamed to say I didn't catch that before I posted. I would agree with the consensus that these were obviously back to back on the line and switched RPO stickers by mistake.
It was the obvious answer. I had to go back and re-type my response, I didn't catch it at first either.
I would also look for the build sheet under carpet under driver front seat, also look for white partal rpo sheet under carpet in truck you will need to take spare tire voer off and lift up caarpet to find. that will have a partal vin 3 on it
These Cars did not necessarily come off of the Assembly-Line in numeric order...
But the chances of it happening are higher if several Cars were being built with very similar options.
Are the options on the RPO decal very similar to the options of your car?
These Cars did not necessarily come off of the Assembly-Line in numeric order...
But the chances of it happening are higher if several Cars were being built with very similar options.
Are the options on the RPO decal very similar to the options of your car?
There are quite a few differences between the RPO and what is actually on the car.
Radio is not original to the car............. No power button and SEEK / SCAN should be next to each other to the far LEFT. My guess is that it's an 83 radio,.. maybe an 84 from a different model. Dash pad isn't original either.
Radio is not original to the car............. No power button and SEEK / SCAN should be next to each other to the far LEFT. My guess is that it's an 83 radio,.. maybe an 84 from a different model. Dash pad isn't original either.
I don't see an issue with the radio, and what tells you that the dash pad is not original? Just curious...
Radio is not original to the car............. No power button and SEEK / SCAN should be next to each other to the far LEFT. My guess is that it's an 83 radio,.. maybe an 84 from a different model. Dash pad isn't original either.
Not sure about this. Here's a photo of the radio that came in my 86 Z-28, purchased new in January 1986.
Well, I'm surprised nobody has said that the dash emblem is not the right dash badge. Also, how does a car with 65k miles on it, still have VR50 tires? The dash pad is incorrect. It's hard to tell if that's an '82/83 dash pad, or it has a new cover on it.
I'd like to know what that SPID decal is even for.
10th digit is G, so It's a 1986.
It doesn't have B4Z, and not even Z28. But it HAS LB9. WTF???
So much of it has me baffled. Would it be plausible that as it went thru assembly, and the incorrect RPO codes, certain things were put on that should not have been on it. I don't know if all of this make the car even worth buying...?
Well, I'm surprised nobody has said that the dash emblem is not the right dash badge. Also, how does a car with 65k miles on it, still have VR50 tires? The dash pad is incorrect. It's hard to tell if that's an '82/83 dash pad, or it has a new cover on it.
In the initial post, the Z28 emblem was what tipped me off that something was odd with this car. As for the VR50 Tires, I am assuming it was a 2nd set. The Carfax shows that in 1988, the car had 44K miles on it. After that, no mileage was reported thru 10/14, only registration renewals.
So much of it has me baffled. Would it be plausible that as it went thru assembly, and the incorrect RPO codes, certain things were put on that should not have been on it. I don't know if all of this make the car even worth buying...?
I wouldn't worry too much about it, really. Yeah it's a bummer about the SPID being for a different car, but the only thing that appears wrong is the dash pad and emblem. I wouldn't be afraid of it..
The SPID sheet in this car is the most unusual one I have ever seen! These are the things that make it so weird!
1.) It has RPO (DD9) Mirrors RH and LH break away painted, (Export)
2.) It has RPO (EXP) (Export)
3.) It has RPO (JE1) Brake system (Export), (Europe)
4.) It has RPO (ZK3) Identification Pull-A-Head design (Export) Could this be the code that triggers an export (Z28) ? Never seen this one.
5.) It has RPO (VC5) Label-shipping exceptions, US possessions, or Japan Label (Export)
6.) It has RPO (VD1) Provision option Europe (Export)
7.) It has RPO (V78) Vehicle statement (Delete) (Export)
8.) It has RPO (V95) Vehicle Preparation (Export)
9.) It has RPO (1AA) Sales incentives retail amenities (Delete) order modifications to existing inventory (Export)
10.) It has RPO (KC4) Cooling system, Engine oil, NOT AVAIABLE TILL 1987 ?
11.) It has RPO (C41) Heater, outside air with fan and defroster, No RPO (C60) A/C (but has vents) RPO (C41) on 4th gen camaro is for air condition (Delete) ?
12.) It has RPO (K90) Generator, 108 ampere I haven't seen this on any?
13.) It has RPO (GU5) 3.23 performance rear gear ratio only available with RPO (Z28) equipped with the LB9 engine as the (G92) performance gear ratio in 1986. .
14.) It has RPO (LB9) Engine, 5.0L TPI only available with the RPO (Z28) coupe which it doesn't have.
15.) It has RPO (G80) Rear axle, limited slip which required RPO (J65) 4 way disk brakes in 1986 ?
16.) It has RPO (N90) Wheel, 15x7 (Cast Aluminum) which didn't come on an IROCZ in 1986 ?
17.) It has RPO (P20) Cap, styled wheel hub not on an IROCZ.
18.) It has RPO (QAC) Tires, P235/60 R15 Black wall available on RPO (Z28) not on an IROCZ ?
19.) It has RPO (UM6) Radio, AM/FM stereo cassette, ETR, includes clock not available till 1987?
20.) It has RPO (DX4) Stripe, 2 sides.
21.) It has RPO (NK3) Steering wheel, sport, soft rim, leather only on the Z28?
What the car doesn't have is RPO (B4Z) the IROCZ package which came with RPO (G92) 3.42 gear ratio in 1986 and no RPO (Z28) anywhere on it? Could they have built a Z28 to export to some other country and keep it within that country's laws? If this is what happened they did it piece by piece. It shows on the SPID sheet's weird combination of RPOs that you couldn't get on a non-export car without ordering the Z28 option. After completing the build were they so confused with what they had created that they had to put the next Vin# in the sequence on the car to be able to title the car in another country? Was somebody able to get this car built the way the SPID indicates then it didn't get exported so they had to change the Vin# on the car to the next number in the sequence to title it here? Who knows?
Last edited by yo soy el warg; Oct 9, 2021 at 10:40 AM.
Someone on thirdgen needs to buy this strange beast, just to preserve and study it. Otherwise some 18 year old kid gets it, drops a junk attempt at engine upgrade into it, runs out of money halfway through a bunch of half *** modifications, and parks it in parents front yard to slowly rot away over the next 20 years.
I agree! Buy this car so we can learn more about it. It sounds very interesting and would be a fun car to own and study. Hopefully it sells for a price that you’re willing to pay. Good luck!
I agree! Buy this car so we can learn more about it. It sounds very interesting and would be a fun car to own and study. Hopefully it sells for a price that you’re willing to pay. Good luck!
What got me interested in this car is that I own a 1988 White V6 sport coupe and a 1988 White IROCZ Convertible and they were built one Vin# apart from each other. So they did build IROCZ verts right along with V6 sport coupes. I think the paint color is what determined what they built on any particular shift. I bought the sport coupe about 10 years after buying the IROCZ vert. It really surprised me when I looked at the Vin. numbers on the titles. It is about as rare for this to happen as winning the lottery!
Were you able to connect with the buyer? It would be nice for him to join this site and update us on the car.
No offense to anyone, and I am no spring chicken (52), but the guy that bought the car was probably 80 years old. He was a nearby farmer, and didn’t seem to know much about the car. My guess is that he was just looking for something to spend money on. I did tell him about the oddity of the car and the interest from our group and gave him our site address. I highly doubt we will hear anything from him, but who knows.
What got me interested in this car is that I own a 1988 White V6 sport coupe and a 1988 White IROCZ Convertible and they were built one Vin# apart from each other. So they did build IROCZ verts right along with V6 sport coupes. I think the paint color is what determined what they built on any particular shift. I bought the sport coupe about 10 years after buying the IROCZ vert. It really surprised me when I looked at the Vin. numbers on the titles. It is about as rare for this to happen as winning the lottery!
wow, that is really ironic to have two cars that are built one after another!
No offense to anyone, and I am no spring chicken (52), but the guy that bought the car was probably 80 years old. He was a nearby farmer, and didn’t seem to know much about the car. My guess is that he was just looking for something to spend money on. I did tell him about the oddity of the car and the interest from our group and gave him our site address. I highly doubt we will hear anything from him, but who knows.
It might pay to stay in touch with him. You may get another chance to own it in the future.
It might pay to stay in touch with him. You may get another chance to own it in the future.
True…. And Leonard, I do owe you an apology from my post the other day. You are a well respected member of this community, and I am fairly new and I should not have replied to you as I did. I took your comment incorrectly, so for that I do apologize.
Thank you, but no worries! I also should have chosen my reply more carefully……it’s hard to come across jokingly on a forum, especially when we don’t know each other. Good luck finding another Thirdgen!
Well...
I was going to say to PM me the VIN on the Car and the VIN on the RPO-SPID.
...and I will send them up the Chain of Command to get an idea of what was going on.
wow, that is really ironic to have two cars that are built one after another!
I still own both cars. I have owned the white 1988 IROCZ convertible for 28 years and the 1988 white V6 sport coupe I had thought for 10 years, but now that I have looked at the bill of sale it has been 15 years. I can't believe its been that long ago. They were originally sent to 2 different dealerships in my area about 30 miles apart according to the factory invoices and paper work I got with them. They were both one owner cars when I bought them. Yes, it is quite a coincidence!
Last edited by yo soy el warg; Oct 10, 2021 at 08:36 PM.
Well...
I was going to say to PM me the VIN on the Car and the VIN on the RPO-SPID.
...and I will send them up the Chain of Command to get an idea of what was going on.
O well.
In the first part of the tread this is listed. The RPO sticker in the console lists the VIN# as 1G1FP87F0GN169617, but the VIN# on the car is 1G1FP87F2GN169618
I did a check digit calculator on both Vin# and they both checked out as correct. Here is the link I used to check them.
According my contacts (friends still with GM SPO... technically now called CCA) these two Cars did go down the Line one after the other.
Obviously both Cars were built as:
-Built in USA.
-General Motors product.
-Division of Chevrolet.
-F-Body.
-Camaro (Non-Berlinetta).
-Two Door Coupe.
-Manual Safety-Restraints.
-LB9 Fuel-Injected TPI 5.0L V8 (Automatic Transmission Only).
-The Fraud Detection Digit shows to be Authentic/ No Fraud.
-1986 Model Year.
-From Norwood Ohio Assembly Plant.
I wonder where the export one that got its SPID into the wrong car actually went? That would have been one of a kind car the way it was built with all the weird combinations. They did things to build that car that you never see on a car that was built to stay in this country. It must have been a very late 1986 summer build to have two RPO that you couldn't get till 1987. I'll bet there are some very rare 3rd gens built for export that are one of a kind. They will eventually surface someday!
