I looked at a car today, It is the 91 firebird formula with 5.7 litre TPI. The body is excellent, the interior is excellent, it runs great, etc. It has "performance suspension" package , i think tha is WS6. It has 80,000 miles and hes asking $6000. I think I could get it for a little less. It is completely stock and has absolutely no rust underneatch or anywhere. I love the looks of the car. Do you think the price is ok.?

 

I think if you could get it for around $5500 it would be a good deal. It sounds like a sweet ride. I rode in an almost brand new Formula 350 in 1990 and it was pretty fast!

 

Bought my 91 GTA for 5800 with 100k miles...you should definately take it if he will go down..or even if he won't ;>

 

Sounds about right to me......

 

Do I need to tell you my opinion? Its worth it.
If its a true Formula, and really has the L98, then its got 3.23 posi, dual cats, oil cooler, dual fans, WS6, etc.
Mine ran 14.3 with bald tires on a hot humid day, with no modifications.

 

Its definitely got dual cats, both on the same side under the passenger seat. They go into one muffler then the muffler goes to two exausts. I think this is normal ? I saw Ws6 on the rpos but I dont remember L98. What is that? It definitely has 4 whelel disc brakes, I want to get it bad.

 

L98 = 5.7
Awesome motor!

 

It definetely has the 5.7 motor, says so right on the hood. Also there is some kind of fake scoop/cowl on the hood the goes up and terminates on the driver side. That's where it says 5.7 Fuel Injection" I beleive. The scoop looks ok from the outside but from the driver seat it terminates right in front of your face and kind of blocks the front view a little. Small inconvenience I guess. Also, as I mentioned, it says "Performance Suspension Package" on the dash. Is this some special edition or what?

 

It definetely has the 5.7 motor, says so right on the hood.

Decals don't mean ANYTHING. Anyone can get the 5.7L badges and put them on a 305 to sell it for more money, or to look cool to their friends, whatever, etc...


Also there is some kind of fake scoop/cowl on the hood the goes up and terminates on the driver side.

Thats the stock hood for a Formula, or 82-84 Trans Am. Technically its not really fake, its a scoop, with a blockoff plate. Early Trans Am's used the scoop for cowl induction, on the Formula's most everyone just removes the plate and lets it work as a heat extractor.

That's where it says 5.7 Fuel Injection" I beleive. The scoop looks ok from the outside but from the driver seat it terminates right in front of your face and kind of blocks the front view a little. Small inconvenience I guess.

The badge should say 5.7 Liter F.I. and should be on each side of the scoop. The scoop blocks visibility a little bit compared to a Camaro, but it doesn't take long to get used to.

Also, as I mentioned, it says "Performance Suspension Package" on the dash. Is this some special edition or what?

That would be an indicator that the car has either level II or level III suspension. If the car is a Formula it came with WS6 stock, WS6 = Level III.


Check the VIN, the RPO codes, etc to make sure it really is what it appears to be.

 

Thanks, excellent information

 

It sounds right. I was told that in order to tell for sure if it is really an L98 5.7 then the 8th digit in the VIN number should be an 8. Is this true? I was told that if it was an F...then that means it is a TPI motor...I saw a beautiful '91 bird for sale...but it was a 6 cylinder...he was selling it for $3500 but said if I wanted it he would give it to me for $2500...since it needed a new speedo and a starter. The car is mint with 88k miles...he is the second owner...it is a blue that I never saw before...w/t-tops. I just want another V8 if I get another TA...too bad it wasnt the L98 otherwise I would have taken it right then and there. If anybody is interested in this car let me know..it is on Long Island.

James

 

The 8th digit of the VIN is the engine code.

F=LB9 305 TPI
8=L98 350 TPI
E=L03 305 TBI
H=LG4 305 4bbl
T=LH0 3.1L MPFI V6
G=L69 305 4bbl

Etc...

 

Drew, maybe you can help me with this. Do you know any stock times for non speed density Formula 350's? I have an 87 and my neighbor has an 88 350 TA. My Formula is like a completely different animal compared to his car it's much faster. I have heard they ran around 14.7 stock. Does this sound about right? Honestly, it feels like a 14.0 car. I don't know how much the dual cats made a difference in the HP ratings, but my car has a 4 inch high flow catco cat on it. Would this basically give me the same benefit that the dual cat cars had? Sorry for all the questions. Either way, nice to see another L98 Formula owner on the board. These cars are suprisingly quick and not to many are around, so many don't know about them.

 

I don't have any times written down for non-SD L98 Formula's. Generally 87 and 88 should be the same, both are maf, the 87 should have the older style air intake ducting (more restrictive), the 88 also would have serpentine belt driven accessories, etc... However, the two cars might not have the same gearing. Since gearing makes a noticable sotp difference to the feel of the car this would make a huge difference.

The dual cats were credited with a 13-15% gain in hp. I'd speculate a large part of the improvement was due to lack of the standard y pipe which was more of a T pipe... The cats couldn't help but improve flow too... I'd imagine a high flow cat would free up at least half of the improvement that the dual cats gave.

All told in stock config I'd expect mid 14's-high 14's, out of an 87 or 88 L98...

 

That still sounds like a lot of money to me, with 80,000 miles. I wouldn't pay more than $5500, if I really, REALLY wanted it.


And my friend has a 89 IROC...with a cat-back exhaust and a couple of freebie mods and whatnot he could not muster better than a 14.4 run. I doubt you'll see anything faster in stock trim. Mid 14's is where it's at.

 

An 89 Iroc is mass air flow, a 91 Formula L98 is Speed density... Speed density is a completely different beast all together.
Low 14's in stock trim are not unusual for 90-92 L98's.

Considering the garden variety thirdgen RS in decent shape with a TBI or V6 runs between $2000 and $4000 off a carlot, and this car is $6000... Do you think you could take $2000 and add a speed density TPI 350, dual cat exhaust, high flow exhaust, 16" wheels, posi, 4 wheel disc brakes, 140mph speedo, 8k rpm tach, level III suspension, high effort steering, badging, badging, badging, etc? What about for $4000? Then figure in your labor... mid-High 16 second quarters, or low 14 second quarters...

Spending $6000 and getting all the goodies from the get go makes a lot more sense doesn't it? then you can spent your next couple paychecks tuning the car instead of tuning a slug.
mid-High 16 second quarters, or low 14 second quarters...
I'd say its an easy logical decision. $500 is nothing in this world, its a car payment for a new car, half an insurance payment, almost enough to buy a nice handgun, not enough for a nice stereo, maybe enough for a couch...

 

The Car checks out. The 8th digit of the VIN is an 8, for L98, besides the rpo numbers have L98 and WS6. Also the hood does say 5.7L F.I. and the wheels even say "WS6 Performance package in the center cap. I''m buying it for $5500. The exterior paint is orginal and almost perfect, the underbody has no rust, It has was bought at a Houston Pontiac dealer and been here its whole life. The interior is amost perfect, headliner hanging a little on driver side. I also check out the hood scoop and yes it just has a metal plate bolted over the opening. It still is visually distracting from the drive position, but I think the point is right that you would get used to it pretty fast. Im going to love it

 

What options do I have on the tires. The ones on the car are the ones that came standard with the car. The one directional Goodyear 245 zr whatever the heck, but they are worn, not dead but worn. What do you all run on yours?

 

I'm running Futura Ultra Z's. 245/50/16's in the front and 255/50/16's in the back. Great tires for the money, hell great tires overall. I wouldn't go any bigger than 255's, because you really wouldn't gain much more footprint because of the width of the rim. Also, the reason I bought these tires is that they have a huge footprint. I know that a 245 is supposed to be a 245, but do some re-search, you'll be suprised at how they actually vary. The 255's I have on the back are as wide as some 275's i've seen other manufacturers produce. Hope this helps and good luck and congrats on your new Formula

 

I think a good price is what your willing to spend. I search hi and low for the best deals and 9 out of 10 times I get them, but when I found my GTA i didnt even beat the guy up on the price, I thought it was fair considering that the car new was 30k (with SLP mods) and I paid under 10k for a 49k mile car. Remember
that when you purchase anything, it make buyer remorse a thing of the past

Now where a photo of the car Larry

 

I paid that much for a '87 GTA with 50K miles so yes buy it. Of course try to talk him down...

 

When I bought mine it had Goodyear Eagle RS-A's in 245/50's all around... Car handled like crap and wouldn't get traction under any circumstance... I replaced them with BFG Comp T/A VR4's in the same size and the car handles great, gets great traction, and the tires last very well. My front tires are like new, the rears need to be replaced... They've got about 15,000 miles on them now.

 

Where is the car, **** you are talking about a classic American muscle car and excellent original paint, 350TPI engine and great interior, I want to buy it if he doesn't!!!! Hell, now days a cheap *** Honda is 25,000 and he is crying over 6000.00, this car is going to be a collector and a piece of history, give me the seller's name and phone, it's mine now!
I have a white 1991 Formula with the 350 TPI engine, auto and she is a dream and I am trying to find a decent one for my wife, these cars are so rare and once in a blue moom I will see one with a cheap paint job ovet it and 2000,000 miles along with smoke and bald tires. Andy

 

I bought the car and picked it up Friday. Put a wax job on it today and by the time I got around to take pics it was dark, here they are anyway with flash. You were right, it's great. I paid 5500 and I got two extra tires with 3/4 tread and a GM shop manual. Took it down to a local 3rd gen gathering tonight and response was very positive.

 

Very sweet dude, congrats!

 

Larry, that is a BEAUTIFUL car!!! Take care of it and be careful when you park her because the front cover can be scratched easily and the black plastic lower spoiler will snap back if you go in too close to a parking headstone. The front of these are low. Congrats on your purchase and please take some daytime photos and email me them when you get a chance, thanks! Andy

 

Yes Please! Daytime photos!

 

Hey larry, did you go to the houston thirdgen gathering last saturday? There is a pic of a red formula just like that one over on a post on www.3rdgen.org and it looks just like yours. Its good to see more formulas. I love them. Great car. I live in the Spring area (North Houston). I know a lot of info on the 91-92 formy's so if you have a question and cant get it answered give me a holler. my AIM screenname is Ktulu14 if you have that.

Just for reference, my formy when stock ran a 14.5 @ 95. Since then I have brought it down to a 14.0 without many mos. they are terrific performers.

Hope to see you around,

Adam

*btw, I wasnt at the thirdgen gathering because I am in college in lubbock TX right now*

 

This was the picture taken from saturday night.

 

Ill defintely give you a message if I have a question and Im sure to have lots of questions. Im new at this and am learning a lot. Ive been wanting to get into these cars for years and am finally doing it. Heres a pic of the car I took today. What's with the hood scoop on the white formula, that is awesome looking. Im going to try and build this car to about 300-320hp or so and do a little drag racing at local tracks. Im lucky to have found this car here locally. Yes I was at the gathering and it was great. We need to have more. There was a guy at the gathering (sorry dude I forgot your name) that had a very nice white GTA that he bought on Ebay in California for $6000 and had shipped back. I forget the miles but I think it was over 100K. I found this one 20 miles from my house with 80K and for $5500.

 

You got a bargain. I missed out on a deal last week; 92 Formula, 5.7, WS6, and original owner (female, non-smoker) - $4900! Missed it by one day!

I'm now looking at a 91 T/A for $4600. It is a 5.0 TPI/WS6 car with 80k, but has drum brakes on the rear. Is this correct? The wheels are wrong (15") and the exhaust is custom (read hatchet job) from the manifold back.

Good third gens are getting scarce and I dont want to miss another good car.

 

Im far from an expert but my understanding was WS6 meant it had 16" wheels, 4 wheel disc brakes and dual exaust. Mine has all this and it is specified on the RPO codes. It also has a code for " oil cooler". You should get the rpo codes and check them on here or on this other website, I think it was formula.com or some such, it has all info by year on the formys. By the way the dual exaust is to cats into a single muffler, then dual pipes after that.

You might check with adam62083, Im sure he knows a lot more than me.

 

The WS6 entailed the level III suspension (bigger swaybars, stiffer struts) as well at 16" wheels, 4 wheel disc brakes. Some of the 91 WS6 cars have drum rears because in 1991 there was a disc brake shortage. However I dont know why the TA would have 15" wheels unless they were swapped on. If you look at the RPO codes (in your trunk glovebox) there should be a listing. Look for "WS6" in there, then you will know for sure.

All of the thirdgen formulas were WS6 cars, but not all the Trans Ams.

Larry, when I get home for spring break maybe we can have a small gathering and we can show eachother our cars. The hood I have on my car is aftermarket from American Sports Car Design. Id really like to check yours out, looks killer.

By the way, I'm not always on the boards so you can reach me with email anytime if you want.

Adam

 

Is the hood scoop funcional or just for looks. Im right now looking for the best cold air intake setup. I think K&N makes one. I assume it replaces the current round filter canister and air conductor and allows use of the conical K&N filter. What do you use? I hear that this can increase HP 30 to 40HP. I want that.
(who doesnt).

 

Thanks guys. I got the RPOs and will complete the authentication tonight. It is a LB9/WS6 car. Apparently, the previous owner swapped the wheels and butchered the exhaust. Who knows why people do these things. The rear brakes are drums, but as long as they are authentic, I don't mind (too much). The car is in good condition otherwise. If I get it I'll post some photos. Thanks again.

 

Hey larry, my hood is semi functional, I have a conical TPI filter on the end of my throttlebody( Ill attach a picture) I am still working on making it a sealed assembly. In due time. A cold air kit is good for 5-10 hp, depending on application. You see more of a small gain across the powerband than a big gain in peak horsepower.

 

Whats up....there is a '91 Formula for sale by me. It has t-tops and is the 5.0 5 speed combo. I really want a 5.7 auto...but what do you think of these cars? How do I tell if it has the special option with the dual cats by vin #? B/c I didnt go look at it in person yet. They want $4250...they said it has flowmasters...it is a t-top car. I have to call them for more info. I am not a big fan of the looks of these cars...but I am kind of looking for a project car. I really need a 4 or 6 cylinder import for college soon..but if this car is that good of a buy...maybe I will just have to deal with the gas mileage. I need to find out more on the mileage and everything...but it would be your cars twin..since it is red also. Only difference would be the engine tranny combo.

Also...there is an '88 formula int he paper....w/72k miles...need to find out more on it...but the listing price is $3900...sound a little high????

I really want a TA with a TPI engine...but will settle for a formula w/a TPI engine....just cant seem to find any around here in NY. Thanks.

James

 

I dunno, you guys probably won't believe me, but I just purchased a 92 Formula 350- all black, tops, black crosslace 16x8 wheels, fully loaded, 69K for.....drum roll- $3000. It's in great shape, I got the carfax report and turns out it was owned by someone and driven only like 5 or 600 miles since early 1998 and last month when I bought it. I bought if from a foreigner run car lot, and they didn't even seem to know what they had. Opened the rear left locking panel, and found the original owners manual with a bunch of Pontiac dealer service reciepts for oil changes and minor maintenance. Needs all the minor stuff; shocks, tires, brakes, etc. But so does any used car I suppose. Deals like that unfortunately are far and few between; these thirdgens are actually rising in value!

 

Geez, I thought I got a good deal at $5500 for a 91 with 80K. I really like black too. They say that the Formula is better than the TA in the sense that it has the power with the 5.7, and the performance options with the WS6, but it is lighter because it doesn't have all the bells and whistles that the TA has. I guess it depends on what you want. One thing I dont under stand is how you couldn't like the looks of these cars. To each their own I guess. One more look for you

 

Larry, your car is a KILLER! Awesome red in the year I want, if you ever want to sell it call me, I am looking for a red 1991-1992 Formula. I have a white '91, am in the future will get a red one in good condition hopefully! andy

 

Hey tommygun, does that car you bought have the WS6 package? That includes beefed up suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, 3.23 posi rear end, and probably someother stuff I don't know about.

 

All formula's have WS6, not all have all the other goodies...

However all L98 formula's are loaded with 3:23 posi, oil cooler, 4wheel discs, etc... except some that didn't have the rear discs.

 

OH. I forgot about the oil cooler. It sounds like he got one hell of a deal. Im wonder about the wheels though, he said they were cross laced, I thought those oncly came on the TA or GTA. I guess someone could have put them on at some point.

 

the 92 Formula's that got the L98 & TTops came witht he t/a/GTA wheels.

 

Yes, it's a WS6, L98, Tops, Oil cooler, 3.23, posi, dual cats, 140 speedo, pwr windows/locks/ant/pulldown, 4 wheel disk (although admittedly the brakes are giving me some trouble right now). I decoded it before I purchased the car. I don't have as good paint as your car does though; the front and rear clips need to be shot, thanks to the Van Nuys waterbased paint problems.

 

My 91 LB9/WS6 T/A is coded J42 (Front Disc, Aluminum Rear Drum) and is correct. I'm happy with the car, with the exception of performance (which I am working to improve upon).

The 15" crosslace wheels are incorrect according to RPO PW7 (16" Diamond Spoke). Must have been swapped out by the previous owner. I see many references on these message boards to the 16" wheels as crosslace, when in fact the RPO and Pontiac sales brochure refer to them as "diamond spoke." The look is similar, the name is not.

By the way, how about some advice on exhaust products from manifold to tail-pipe. I need a y-pipe, cat, and cat-back system.

 

call the wheels whatever name works best for you... be it 'gta wheels' 'crosslace wheels' or 'diamond spoke wheels' they're all the same wheels. The 15's start to make sense when you're pricing tires and you're on a budget. $600+ for a set of tires, or $300 for a set of tires and you can make $300-600 off the stock 16's and get stock 15's for $200 a set from the salvage yards. It adds up pretty quickly.

Check your exhaust question on the exhaust message board.

 

I suppose if I was the designer who was responsible for naming the wheel style, I could call them what I like. Since I'm not, I'll refer to them by the names given them by Pontiac.

You're right about the price of tires. I am surprised to see the 16" Pontiac wheels are much less than many after-market wheels (and look better in my opinion).

 

hey, i have a 89 formula-305, ws6, ttops, black,etc. the spoiler has a split in the top. one lock tore out. i gave 500 for it, it has 225 k miles lol, but the paint is damn good and was gonna stick a 350 in it, should i leave it original or is it just anothe formula? I thought a 305 formula wasn't worth that much, just wondering thanks for help

 

gravy,
305 Formulas are OK, I own 2 and I am happy with them

It also depends on WHICH 305 you have, is it the TBI or the TPI. If you have the TPI and the Manual gearbox, you will darnd near run as fast as a 350 car. The automatic TPI cars got the "peanut cam" as there often referred to.

As for your mods, I would do anything you wanted to it, you have a lotta miles on it, and its not all that rare....

Personally I think the Formula beats the snot out of all the other third gens for looks, its my opinion, and the next one I buy will be a 1992 Formula 350 yellow with T-tops...

Of course I am getting married here in a month and that dream might just fly yout the window...whoop there it went...

John