I would have to take apart the interior to do thus, if I choose to
so I hope this is the right section to place this post in.

A couple friends of mine and myself were driving up to meet some friends in Hattiesburg, MS.
That is a 2 hour trip one way.
Along the way one of the cars coasted to the side of the road.
Fuel pump went out. We were only 10 minutes to our destination.
He got a tow to our friends house in Hattiesburg. We traveled back up to hattiesburg the next day
and changed the pump without cutting a hole in the floor.

2 cars 4 hours driving each + the price of a tow and the part.
Luckiliy he had a place to tow it to and a friend to help him drive his
other car back and fix it the next day
If GM had put an access panel there it would of been an hour part replacement and back on the road again.

I have changed the pump correctly and have had 3rd gens with the access hole put in. (some good, some hacked)

I have an 89 Camaro and an 89 Formula, both with electric fuel pumps
My previous 3rd gens all had carb and mechanical fuel pumps
After this latest adventure, I am leaning towards putting a access panel in correctly. Not because I am lazy,
but because of the ease of maintenance if I am "on the road" away from my house.

Any other thoughts on putting an access panel in the floor?

 

I never have thought of doing it or nor do I want to. My friends 89 GTA had it done and it was hacked to crap. He fixed it somewhat but still looks horrible and is something that to me would lean me away from buying a car. I have seen some clean versions of it but still the chances of a pump going bad even more a recent replacement is rare.

Just replace the pump with a good name brand and do it the right way.

 

The access panel can be great when done right. However, to do it right you need to drop the tank, get an actual door and weld that in, have some way to seal it from fumes (like a gasket made into the door). And you have to modify the tank sending unit hard lines correctly. You have to cut them and splice them back together with the right flared compression fittings or it will leak. Rubber line and hose clamps is not the correct way for fuel injected applications.

Ive seen only 1 car on here that did the access panel right. everyone else just hacks it. WHen done right, it looks good and is imensly functional when replacing a bad pump.

 

I have been thinking of doing the access door mod.... Also, hello from a fellow Louisianaian!

 

Gonzales aint too far from me.
do you go to Tanger on the 3rd sat. of the month?



So far:
1 pro
1 against
1 + me thinkin 'bout it
101 viewed!!

 

I have never been as my car is presently in its butt ugly "in progress" stage, but I plan to in a month or so after the car is sent off for paint. I can tell you, I did the access door on my 4th gen camaro. Not quite the same, but no issues yet after over a year...

 

No real taking apart the interior need.

Flip the rear seat back forward, pull up (backwards) the carpet....There is the area to be cut.

With a correct access door, it is a 10-minute job, on the roadside. Without it, it is a garage-only (not just a shop) job that takes at the minimum half the day to do.

This is how to do it correctly:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/tur...utes-less.html

 

other than the rubber hose and clamps. that looks good. they have the correct compression fitting on 1 line atleast.

 

I just KNEW that something about would be said. But remember, only 1 of the lines is under pressure. Don't need anything more than hose & clamps on the other 3. MAYBE on the return line, but even on that line there isn't much pressure, so hose clamps will suffice just fine.

 

true, 1 line is just a vent, 1 is a return, and 1 is for the evap system. so i suppose rubber lines and clamps would be fine for those.

 

x2,
Ive always dropped the tank and just did it. a swap to a 4thGen tank setup with quick disconnect lines is another nice way. do a nice access panel with a removable door. Alot of modern cars have the setup right under the back seats.

all the USPS trucks i work on have a nice riveted in plate an aluminum panel screws down to.

As for line I agree do it right with nice fittings etc. Really only the feed line needs to be good fitting. The rest would be ok with efi fitting. not just worm gear hose fittings.

 

blast from the past. I recall some good measurements etc being posted over here.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fabr...cess-hole.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fabr...mp-access.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...cces-done.html

 

The access hole can be enlarged a tad also and this will allow the entire unit to be unbolted and removed WITHOUT cutting of any lines.

 

I have been thinking about whether or not to put one in myself. Leaning against it for a few reasons

1. I like the car the way it was built and engineered from the factory. Cutting any hole (even well done) almost seems like it is hacking up the car.

2. GM spent millions on crash testing and occupant protection. Cutting a hole above the gas tank was not in the plan...and probably for a reason. Think about this....you get in an accident, car flips upside down, floor buckles where the access door is and fuel leaks in the cabin. Not a good scenario.

3. A good pump should last 10 years...almost not worth cutting the car up.

-------------------------------------

That said I also think having a fuel access door makes sense so a fuel pump change could be done 'on teh fly' if you had to.

I'm still on the fence.

 

No, it cannot be enlarged "just a tad".

The 4 lines run forward, turn towards the drivers side until the end of the fuel tank, then go down a few inches & then there is the first disconnection point.

The fuel pump assembly inside the tank is too tall for it to be lifted out with just a "tad cutting".

 

the lines extend all the way down the side of the tank and unhook near the bottom. to get to those points from the top, your "access hole" would have to be nearly all the way down the hump behind the back seat, nearly to the floor....

 

i thought about it but after i dropped my tank and found it to be pretty easy i am glad i didnt. i was able to remove the exhaust to help out. i will drop my tank again when i do my ls swap but the factory tank will not go back in.

 

No hacking, do it right and drop the tank. I replaced the in-tank fuel pump last week and it really isn't that bad. The biggest problem was removing enough of the exhaust to make room for swinging the tank forward to get it out.

It took me about an hour to re-install the suspension bits and another hour for the exhaust and heat shields. Removing the tank also gives you the opportunity to inspect it, remove debris, and paint it as well as installing new anti-squeak insulation on the hold down straps, if needed. My tank needed it after 26 years and two removals.

I just don't understand the reasoning why on this site so many people want to cut corners instead of doing a job correctly, whether it's a fuel pump install or whatever the problem is.

 

this is true! use the measurements above and you will not be disapointed.
no need to make the hole larger

 

whats a good quality pump that lasts 10years? lol
i havent had any luck with walbro.

 

Its sorta a pain to pull the sending unit out of the tank in the first place and you want todo it inside the car?. Idk its like 6 bolts to take the rear out. Id rather do it the right way instead of cutting up the car. Just my 2 cents.

 

It has been said 100 times....Because putting in the Access Door is something the factory should have put in, it the first place. If it was there, would you still think that the "correct way" would be to drop the tank? Are the cars that come with a Access Door from the factory doing it "wrong"?

It is fixing an oversight that was neglected by GM back when the 3rd gen was first designed.

It isn't "wrong". Are 17"s wrong on a 3rd gen? Is lowering a 3rd gen wrong? Is a LT1/LS1/Big Block "wrong". None of the above are wrong. Just different. The factory way isn't the ONLY way to do things

 

I dont think any thirdgens came with an access panel? Or am i mistaken? Ive had like 10 of these cars and never saw one.

 

 

Not from the factory. All were done by 3rd gen owners who got tired of having the pump go out driving down the road/in a store parking lot/or just fed up with dropping the tank. I know one guy that dropped the tank, put in a new pump, put the tank back in....Only to discover that the store sold him a dead brand new pump. Sucked having to drop the tank 2 days in a row.

 

The guy said "Are the cars that come with a Access Door from the factory doing it "wrong"?". Stating they did come with it?

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding....

3rd gens NEVER came with them. There are, however, other makes & models of cars that did come with fuel pump Access Doors.

 

I made one in mine. My pump went out about a week after I welded up my new exhaust. Wasn't about to cut up my new exhaust just to drop the tank. Got a piece of stainless steel, some rivets, and some black RTV silicone. Now I know in the future if I have to replace it again, which I'm sure I will, it should only take about an hour. Most of that time spent removing interior pieces and the carpet and taking the cover off.

All three of the Hondas that I've owned all had access panels in the trunks. I say go for it. Just do it the right way and be careful cutting the hole. I used air shears to do mine and it worked really well.

 

Twice I have removed the tank to replace pumps. Once for a bad pump and the second time was for a tbi/tpi conversion. On the second pump I started and finished by myself in about four hours. I do have access to a garage, concrete floor and tools.
Here is a few pointers:
Did you research this project throughly and completed a list of pros and cons that apply to you?
Do you have the skill to make this a clean and safe modification?
Do you have the necessary supplies and equipment?

I have chosen not to make the access panel because in my situation, I have the expierence and means to replace a pump without the modification. I do agree that if the modification was done clean and safe, its worth beig completed.

 

No, GM should have engineered a two piece filler neck. Did they do that? No they didn't. Did they ever address the lousy seal around the front side of the side windows? No they didn't. When I toured the Norwood plant in 1987 a Chevy rep asked me if mine leaked, I said no, he said you're lucky, don't complain.

There are a half dozen things Chevy should have done, twenty things, a hundred things, but they never did. Now we live with the consequences.

If you want to cut a giant hole in the back of your car, go right ahead. If you want to put IROC wheels on an RS, go right ahead. If you want to put BMW headlights on a Chevy, go right ahead. Do what you want. It's your car. Me, I would never do any of those things. Am I right about that? No more than you or any one else. But when asked, I will tell you what I would do whether you like the answer or not.

I don't post to get brownie points, I post because some one needs help.

 

2. GM spent millions on crash testing and occupant protection. Cutting a hole above the gas tank was not in the plan...and probably for a reason. Think about this....you get in an accident, car flips upside down, floor buckles where the access door is and fuel leaks in the cabin. Not a good scenario.


If you in an accident, car flipped over and leaking gas, you have a problem no matter how you look at it.

Plus if you think that in that scenario even without the acces panel gas wont get in the cabin your crazy. Have you ever taken the carpet out of a Third Gen, theres more gaps between the panels than I can count and gas will go right through seam sealer.

 

If you can flip a thirdgen, id be impressed.

 

I am not a fan of the door. However, I do see the reason for doing it. Esp on very rusty cars that are daily driven or cars that don't have a easily removable cat-back. Most people don't clean up threads an put antisieze back on all the bolts that took them forever to get out. (real future time saver) Thats the 1st thing I did when I got my car years ago. I pulled it completely apart and put anti seize on every bolt on the bottom of the car and replaced the ones that were even slightly bad with new GM hardware.
The problem I have seen with these access doors in many junkyard cars and cars on this site is the complete lack quality when it was done. I saw one in the junkyard where they cut 3 sides and just peeled/curled it back and sealed it back down with duct tape. Nice, huh? I think I have only seen one maybe two of these where it looked like a halfway quality job.
I think to do it properly would take a good day or two, a trip to the junkyard for a complete upper trunk floor thats bigger than the cut hole by atleast 2inches, some nutzerts or weld in nuts, a grinder/sander, a beed roller, a fuel resistant gasket (gas n silicone don't mix) and the proper metric O-ring fitings for the lines. (I like things to look very factory)
And even then you would still need to drop the tank on the floor....

 

A friend of mine did it back when his car was only a few years old. slid off the road, hit a ditch and put a 89 formula350 TTop on its lid. maybe 30mph. Kind of a freak accident. sad day.

 

To do the cut floor the "right" way takes longer and is more difficult than dropping the exhaust, suspension, and tank. Lets be honest, if one can't figure how to drop those things with basic tools (rusted or not) on a concrete or flat surface the chances of completing a quality 'butcher the floor patch' job is significantly low.
Everyone complains about the exhaust being so hard to remove. The bolts on the flange on the back of the converter can be broken and replaced, also unbolting the hangar brackets on the rear of the exhaust will leave the entire cat-back in one removable piece. Shock bolts, and sway bare bolts also simple to remove. Track bar may be a little tight-propane torch, proper sized wrench with breaker bar, and penetrating oil fixes that.
I always enjoy the should I butcher my car questions.....My 2009 dodge truck has no access panel for the fuel pump, maybe I should cut a hole in the bed to make changing the pump easier.

 

theres a few members on the board that have had to replace multiple fuel pumps. theres nothing wrong with the fuel door if done correct. i used the turbobuick link above to fab my car. im running a new walbro pump with a racetronics hot wire kit and a few weeks before i parked it for winter i noticed that the check valve was faulty. i might pull the new pump AGAIN. ive owned my car for 10years and replaced 3 pumps.

btw when it breaks down its not on a concrete floor in a garage! its a tow truck home. All of this "do it right" or the implication that the ones who choose to make an access dont have the skills is false.

 

Its a hack-job any way you look at it. Every time I see someone post up how they did the door on their nice car all I can think is, congrats your "fix" just pissed away about $1000 of its value

Ive replaced more pumps than I want to count, never by cutting the hole. Its not THAT difficult, even the northern cars with rust everywhere are no problem when you have the proper tools

PS, Ive welded several of these doors shut again because the new owner was absolutely disgusted with the PO's "work"

 

I think what the real question should be is can it be done safely, I mean some people look at mini tub or rollcage as a hack job but that doesn't mean that it dont fit the wants or needs of the owner.

 

From what I've seen around here, many folks don't even have the few basic wrenches and sockets needed to properly drop the tank to replace the fuel pump let alone the list of things you described above. There is also a level of talent needed to do what you're describing. I'm in my early 50's and have been around cars since the crib and I would probably struggle with cutting and making a well designed cut out hole that didn't look like hell and didn't scar the value of my prized posession. Do you think some 17 year old is going to have the tools and talent in cutting a hole that doesn't looked like a hack job?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing you at all. I'm actually applauding you for the reality check into what is really needed when it comes to doing a cut job. It's more than just taking a pair of air shears and going at it. You have described in a brief few words what maybe the basic necessities are let alone what other unforseen things would be needed to do this safely and correctly.

Maybe now those contemplating this will say I can either do the job with the few tools I have on my tool box--some wrenches, sockets, a torque wrench--or I can do it supposedly the 'easy' way but I need a compressor, a pair of shears, a grinder, maybe a welder, maybe some hinges, one or trips to the JY, and god knows what else.

 

I did it in my old 1992 Camaro, and I would do it again in my new 1992 Camaro if it ever needs a new fuel pump.

 

I went through this dilemma over the summer when I had to put twin intank pumps for the big block. I actually had to do the process twice because one of the lines fell off from the Y-block. Dropped the tank like I was supposed to both times. If you ask me, Id do it all over again tomorrow. It really isnt that bad of a job. A nice jack and an impact gun and its a couple hour job at the most, and you wont be doing the really tight fit I had to go through.
^This is just for anyone contemplating how hard the job is. I have no where near the proper "facility" to do it, but I got it done in pretty good time by myself. Just food for thought.

 

I will agree that it can be done in a professional manner but it seems that most do not want to take the time to do it right. In my car the previous owner did one slightly worse that TTOP350 described. They only cut three sides and folded back. Afterwards they folded back down and called it done. They left sharp edges all over and now I get to fix it. When I stripped an 83? Camaro I did get a much bigger piece of the floor there to make a cover with. I still need to drop my tank to repair their mess though. I have already put in two pumps to get it running not counting the new one in it that the PO put in. One of the two I bought was mismarked and was a TBI pump the same as what was put in it before I bought it and the next was the right V6 pump.
I believe a pump acces door might have been put in if it had been thought of. As for the floor there wrinkling in an accident a cross brace there or two should solve that possibility. I have some braces that the factory used elsewhere that I can tack in to help strengthen it there.
Is it right, by no means, but will be better than many of the access doors put in but I have not found a good pump that will last. I am still needing to put in a compression fitting on the pressure side minimum.
I do not think anybody should do this with the tank in the car and most people probably might not want to do it with the overall work involved.
I personally am for a well done access door.

 

When I purchased my 86 Iroc-Z I noticed strong fumes in the car. Turns out I had a hole cut in. Covered with duct tape, then carpet put back in place. Fuel pump went out last weekend, took 11 minutes to swap it. Still need to fab a door for the hole though. Any ideas on a gasket for the door?

 

A weld bead

 

Well my 86 Z28 has an access door but I had no clue it was there until yesterday when my buddies friends shop was doing a pump and tank swap for me and told me when I went to pick my car up that the shop that had replaced the pump back in April cut a hole in my car to change the pump instead of doing it properly and didn't tell me they had cut into my car needless to say I'm not a happy camper with the first shop especially when the guy that owes that shop has known me since I was 2 yrs old!!!!

 

agreed 100%

 

in the highly unlikely event that i were to take my car to a shop only to find out they cut a hole in my floor, i would sue the crap out of them. even if the shop was run my close family friends. a shop that cuts a hole in the floor to remove a pump is not a shop worth going to. thats just lazy and poor workmanship right there.

 

I only take my car to the shop for stuff that I can't do myself and believe me I'm not happy about it!!!!!!!!

 

I have one. It's a hack job. Really bad. Lol. Ill redo it.

 

im pro access door but if im taking my car to a shop they had better do it by the book. if there going to take short cuts they MUST call for your authorization first. i would go back to the shop and address this issue. this shop has got to step it up big time. sound bush league to me and would be imbarrased to call my self a business owner or shop manager.

i thiink they owe you come cash money!!