I'm swapping a 93' LT1 into my 89' Camaro. I am using a painless wirning kit and the stock 93 Camaro computer. I finished running all the wiring, and did all the little things that needed to be done to start the car today. I turned the key to the on position to make sure the new fuel pump would work and it did. It came on for 3 or 4 seconds and then shut off like it should. Before I tried to start it, I looked and noticed a fuel line was leaking. I tightend the line and tried to start the car. Everything was working fine and the motor was turning over trying to start until I lost fuel pressure. I had ran almost all of the gas out the night before pulling my factory motor so it would be easier to drop the tank to change the fuel pump. Apparently the little bit of gas that was in the tank had leaked out when the line was leaking. I went and got a few gallons of gas and then tried starting it again. The pump was working and I had fuel pressure, but it won't start. We tested and the signal to the injectors and the coil has quit pulsing. the motor will turn over every time but won't fire. Almost everytime I try to start it, I get nothing from the injectors or the coil. Every now and then, they both fire correctly for a few seconds and then start acting up again and then just quit working all together. Now, the fuel pump will come on when you turn the key to the on position, but will not shut off after a few seconds like it should. The painless wiring kit came with a check engine light for the kit. The instruction booklet says when all the wiring is done properly, the check engine light will come on when you turn the key to the "on" position. It does exactly like the booklet says so I'm 99% sure its not a wiring problem. I have checked all my grounds and connections and they are all good. Painless phone lines are only open during weekdays so I can't call them until tomorrow. Can anyone think of anything? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

I just installed a 95 LT1 in my 89 as well. I'm having different problems but I'll try to offer you some help. Did you have VATS eliminated in the computer? That needs to be done or it won't start. Mine was already eliminated in the computer so I jumped two of the wires at the start enable relay and that worked fine.

 

I did the same thing. I had the VATS turned off in the ECU and put a fusable link in the two wires for the starter enable relay and it turns over but won't start. I think I fried the starter after two and a half hours of test starting. I'll probably have to change it tomorrow.

 

Hey just noticed something while I was reading this... will the 93 PCM work with the 4l60e? I thought that 93's came with the 700r4, and when then did switch over in 94, it was a totally different PCM, with out a prom chip... Probably not related to your problem, but just a thought...

 

I'd check to see if the coil and distributor are putting out voltage, then go from there.

 

the 4l60 and the 700r4 are pretty much the same the problem begins with the retro-fit of the 4l60e

 

sounds like you're missing a ground or power to the injectors.

 

Yeah is the Ignition B+ coil wire and fuse wire spliced into the correct stuff for sure? Tell me where you spliced them into. Maybe even a pic if possible

 

Ignition power wire, and/or injector power wire is not hooked up to a switched source. Need to noid the injectors to make sure they are getting power.

 

We spliced them into the fuse box to a fuse that has power when the key is in the on position and when trying to start. I don't remember exactly which fuse. I am doing the swap in a friends garage and there isn't a computer there. I''ll have to check tonight. The light on the painless kit came on just like it was supposed too when all the wiring was done right so I don't think its an issue with the painless. I had a member on another forum tell me it might be a bad or improperly grounded ignition module. I am using the bowers A/C relocation bracket and it relocates the coil and ignition module too. The bracket is powder coated and I think it may not be letting the ignition module and coil ground properly. I also have to check the crank position sensor and the optispark.

I am using the factory 93 Z28 transmission. I have read that its a 700R4 but I've also read it may be a 4L60E. I'm pretty sure its a 700R4.

 

Well let me know what you figure out. You have my number still? I'm going to work on my car again in about a week or two, so maybe if you get yours done you can come by and maybe help me get mine all finished up

 

I should have mine up and running this weekend (hopefully) I pulled the k-member and front suspension today to modify the k-member, motor is done and this is the last thing to do. School is out after next week, if you don't get it finished, I may be able to take a day and come down to help also if needed.

Also the '93s didn't have a crank position sensor, only '96 and '97 models.

 

That would help me out so much. So if you can please let me know because I have to have the car done before christmas, thanks.

 

I found out that I didn't have a full 12 volts going to the ignition module and coil and that was making it act up. Now the car won't start it just turns over and backfires a bunch so I know there is either a problem with the Opti or I put it on wrong. Some people think it will only go on one way but they're wrong, it can go on in the wrong position. I just learned that tonight. Well, everyone makes mistakes, I'll just learn from it and move on. Maybe I can get it back together and get it running soon.


mliers- I was going to call you today but I got dragged though the mall by my girlfriend and then went straight to work on my car when she had to go to work. I have so many things on my mind right now, I think I'm gonna go crazy. If it starts, I'll try my best to call you and let you know. I was kinda hesitant before to help you do your wiring becasue I had never done it before. know, I have some experience and I'll do my best to help you out. Once I get mine going, I'll try and get a day off from work to come help you. Did you ever figure out the fuel line quick connects? I looked at mine the first time and realized that one was made spcefically for the smaller hard line on the intake and the other is made for the bigger.

Klortho- I'd like to meat up with ya'll if you come to help him. Plus if we get them all runnin, we'll have 3 LT1 swapped third gens in one place and we could compare all the things done different on the swap.

 

Yeah I got the fuel lines on finally. Yeah if we could all meet up that would be cool.

 

Yeah, the '93-'94 optis can be off like a regular distributor, but when they changed it in '95 to the pinned opti, you have only 3 ways to put it, but the slot is bigger and has a notch in it so you really can't get it out unless you really tried.

Yeah, that would be cool, like I said, I'm hoping to get it in this weekend since it was running and driving in my '86 before it was hit, it's just like a basic engine swap for me now.

 

Well it looks like I have until Thursday the 15th get my car started. Not necessarily driveable, but just able to start and idle. I took an engine class to build the engine and did all the extra stuff with an extension in the class, but that is up by break, so if anyone is able to maybe help with some wiring I need help wed. afternoon the 14th and all day the 15th. If you're available let me know, thanks.

 

PM me a phone number and I'll see what I can do to help over the phone.

 

I checked tonight and it seems the optispark is working properly. I grounded the coil and ignition module bracket with the same results as before. The injectors and ignition sytem are still going crazy. While trying to find the problem, the motor hydrolocked. The number 6 and 7 cylinder where completely full of gas. When we pulled all the plugs out, some of them don't even smell like they have ever had gas around them, but the number 6 and 7 cylinders where completely full of gas. I had 4 mechanics over there tonight, all trying different things, all making phone calls trying to find the problem with no luck. I honestly don't have any idea of what could be causing this.

I just got home from workin on it, and I needed to vent some, sorry about the rant, but If anyone can help me.........

 

Are you sure this was a good running motor before you bought it?

 

im sorry that you are having so many problems but i have been here. have you checked out this site? it helped me out alot http://shbox.com/1/4th_gen_tech1.html

 

The motor turns over fine with no unusual noises. I have narrowed all my problems down to the ECU. Everyone I talked to mentions a whole bunch of different things that could be wrong but I have already double and triple checked them. I am getting a new chip burnt and hoping it will work. If not I'll be looking for a new ECU.


I have it saved in my favorites. I have been there many times and it has been very useful.

 

Sorry to hear. I used a Painless harness also and after rough wiring the car, it started and ran immediately. It ran rough because I originally was using a 9c1 pcm and when I had it reprogrammed with a modified Z flash, it ran awesome and still does. I'd be willing to bet it's your computer as well. Good luck.

 

Well If I can get over there one day when you are working on it we could hook my computer up and see if it does anything. It's a 93 computer with a chip I had programmed from madz28

 

I should be picking up the new chip tonight. I'll just have to cross my fingers and pray.

 

It finally started.

It wasn;t because of the chip though. The reason the injectors weren't firing is because I didn't have the O2 sensors hooked up because I don't have a Y pipe yet and I was just gonna have the exhaust shop put them in when I had one made. I didn't think it would cause that many problems. After I hooked them up and grounded them, I was getting good injector pulse and fire but the car was still misfiring. I had a friend who is really good with LT1's come over and after about an hour and a trip to get a new optispark, he found the problem. The gear that actually goes into the opti had been forced into place somehow. I took the opti off once and it went back on with no problems. I never forced it on or jammed it in, I didn't even know the pin came out. The only thing I can think of is that something may have fell on it when moving all my parts around. When he tried to pull the pin out he found the problem. After putting it all back together, it fired on the first try.

I feel great right now knowing that after a few hours of work tomorrow night, hiding wires, running gauges, and other little stuff, I'll have it to the exhaust shop on Tuesday or Wednesday and my first motor swap will be done.

 

That's awesome news man. I will be working on mine on wed. and thursday. I just need to ground everything, hook up the injector wires, and starter and it should be able to start. If you have any time to help on those days let me know.

 

Well, mine took a bad turn this weekend. Took me longer to get the a-frames put back on the car, plus had to spend time stripping the struts, calipers and rotors from the Firebird to put on the GTA, but it is all back together and the car is in the garage now so I can get the pedals mounted and interior put in the car, then that should be it for me, possibly another week then I should be good to go......

I hope

 

mliers- I work at a car wash and if it rains Wednesday, I won't have to work and I'll come help you.

Klortho- That sucks, I know how you feel trying to get something done and having problems. Good luck.

 

thats good to hear you got it going. sounds like you are haveing better luck already then i had. u will love the diff in the car. good luck with the rest.

 

Well looks like my car has to start by tomorrow (wed) so I'll be in there working on it tonight and hopefully most of the day tomorrow until later in the evening. So I may be calling some people tonight or tomorrow with questions if thats alright. Thanks for all the help so far. Pray another swap becomes a success tomorrow

 

I'll try my best to make it over there tomorrow for a few hours. I'm taking my car to the exhasut shop tomorrow morning. I took the day off from work and I'm not going to school. I was gonna use the day to drive the car around for awile and break the motor in and show people I know but, there are a few minor issues that I need to fix but I'm gonna go ahead and get the exhaust done. I'm having it hauled over there and back so once I get it back, I'll call you and head that way as long as nothing comes up.

 

Well, I got the clutch cylinder hole done and mounted, pedals are mounted, and shifter hole is cut out. Brake master cylinder is mounted as well. Plus I went ahead and put in the carpet and one door panel. Looks like hopefully Thursday the motor and tranny will be in the car.

Hey, where did you two put the PCM at by chance? I don't think I'm gonna mount it where it was in the Firebird and looking for a new place.

 

I mounted mine right above the spot in the firewall where the wiring block goes in on the drivers side. It fit perfect after taking the plastic mounting cover off.

 

would like to see some pics of it done.

 

Well no luck tonight cuz I ended up not being able to do as much as I wanted, but I am going back in the morning so we'll see what happens then. Just need to do a couple of grounds, battery, fluids, and starter.

 

I finished mine in the shop and was gonna drive it home, but it won't idle down. It Idles about 1300 rpm and is thowing two codes. I have checked for any obstructions to the throttle but there are none causing it to hang open. The codes are a number 41 which is the ignition control and a 52 which is the PROM. I'm gonna try and figure them out and then drive it. I'll have a pic up later of the custom 3 inch pipes coming off of the hedman headers going into the Y-pipe and then the 4 inch exhaust. The only word that could describe the way my car sounds is "wicked".

 

When you hooked up the computer do the plugs on the harness have to match up a certain way on the ecm? Cuz I have no idea which plug goes where if so

 

They are made so that only the plug that goes in the specific place will plug in to that place. You can't get them wrong.

 

Klortho- Here is a pic of the ECU and stuff mounted. The polished hold down was bought at advance auto parts in the help section. It is just a tie down strap bolted down. I'll be taking it off and painting it black soon becasue it looks tacky.

 

One of the engine bay.

 

Comlpetely custom 3 inch Y pipe into one single 4 inch pipe.

 

That looks pretty good, the only good shot I have of the engine bay is this one, and it was when it was in the Firebird. The engine bay in the GTA will look lots better, especially since I painted it the color the car is going to be when I'm all done. I have about 3/4 of the interior in the car now, cleaned the carpet, put in the panels in the hatch and door sills, seat belts and just finished putting the dash in the car, shouldn't be too much longer now

 

This is what I started with, I'll get a good pic of the interior the way it is now tomorrow. I didn't have my digi camera with me tonight heh

 

Well, crap, here is the pic

 

looks good i need to do the tpi intake thing that looks so much better. keep up the good work