b's90cam

So i have read a bunch up on this and i think i am pretty squared away. My friend wrecked his 00 z (ls1/4l60e) and is now selling me the car. I am going to swap the dash with the engine. If i do this i will pretty much be plug and play besides the reverse lights, fuel pump, and a few other misc parts right? I know i will need a new k-member and a-arms (don't want to just go mounts) and the trans x-member. I was thinking that if i swapped the rear i would be able to use the torque arm on the original drive train. Is this right or will my original torque bolt in? I can't see this being as difficult as i orignially thought it was especially since i have the whole car. By the way i have a walbro 255 pump. I was wondering though if swapping the gas tank swap is recommended.

Thanks for any help or leads to a thread i might have missed.

Brandon

MrDude_1

there will be several small misc details nomatter how you do it.
yes, reusing as much as possible from the donor car will make the wiring simpler, but at the cost of the extra work to make the 4thgen parts fit.. and you're limited at moving things around, diffrent then stock.
an example would be the PCM. on a 4thgen, its in a corner cubbyhole underhood.
3rdgens have no neat place to put them in the same area.
my personal belief on the best way to go about doing this is a mix between the "keep everything stock and swapped over" thought, and the "do everything custom to fit"... theres alot of decisions you'll ahve to make one way or the other, but thats why everyones swaps are always diffrent.


you can use either torque arm, they're functionally identical.
if you do swap, keep in mind the width diff of the 4thgen rear..
on the plus side, the 4thgen rear probly has a posi...


the devil is in the details, but overall, none of it is hard.
just alot of details.


i personally prefer to keep the 3rdgen tank as it fits better.
however, the 99+ 4thgen tank does have a nicer baffle system with that bucket thing... they're the only stock tank EFI drag cars i know that can launch hard on less then 1/8th tank...

StevenK

iTrader: (1)

Thats alot of questions.

You will need to notch your stock k-member or go with the aftermarket one. You will also need the new trans x-member, which you should just get one with the adj torque arm. I'm happy with mine from Spohn.

You can swap the gas tank if you want, but its not needed.

b's90cam

I forgot i'm not running a/c. I may hold off on the tank for a while. My first priority would be to get it running so i would probably just buy the mounts now that i think about it. I am going to get a custom exhaust with the o2 sensors so i'm not worried about that.

If i were to keep my stock rear i could reuse my stock torque arm?

How much wiring besides the dash and engine, basically the plug and play, would need to be wired?

For some reason this just seams too easy.

b's90cam

oh yeah and i would have to get the vats taken out i realize

MrDude_1

yes.
you can use your stock one with your rear.
you can use your stock one with the 4thgen rear.

you can use the 4thgen one with your rear.
you can use the 4thgen one with the 4thgen rear.

they're interchangable.



besides the dash and engine? almost nothing... after all, thats all you're doing.. lol

you need to be more specific...

you're going to have to figure out each wire thats not connected to anything, and see if you need it... ooor, do it the other way, and only hook up what you need.




you will need someone with HPtuners, EFIlive or "other" tuning software.
there are alot of little things you'll need to take care off.. mostly DTCs and VATS.

b's90cam

trhanks for the info. I haven't torn into the swap yet, it will probably be a week or two before anything happens so it's hard to ask what wire does what when i don't have. I just hope i don't cut into it and get overwhelmed. I know how to solder and I know i can drop the engine in. I was thinking that i might put the ecu where the little hole over by the passenger firewall is and build a little enclosure to keep it dry. hmm... I think this it for now. The only thing holding me up now is the dash swap. I need more info on that one and that's it.

MrDude_1

you dont have to worry too much about keeping it dry.. its supposed to be weatherproof.

however, it wont reach all the way over there.
if you look at the pics of peoples swaps, you'll see how almost all of them have it in the same general area... thats as far as it reaches.



this pic i attached shows about how far over it can reach.... you pretty much cant go any farther over.


i personally prefer to make a hole in the firewall, and mount the PCM under the dash behind it. the red arrow points to where the hole must be made.. its below the airbox, directly above the "frame rail"

b's90cam

so you mounted it under the heater box. Will this work with a non a-c heaterbox?

Ace

iTrader: (2)

the fuel pump and wiring fits you just need to enlarge the hole.. i used the 4th gen pump and tank as well.. just integrated into the 3rd gen lines

its quite a bitch to install the dash and do all the conversion.. power hatch.. power antenna.. defrost.. locks and windows.. door pins.. wipers.. i choose to go this way cause I thought it would be "easier".. fawk was I wrong.. im still pissing around with a couple parts... and it doesnt look as clean as the stock stuff did

heres the interior, hope to finish it one day



my computer i mounted just to the left of the engine.. i will find a way to get it into the cab just to clean up under the hood.. just need to punch a hole and extend a couple wires

MrDude_1

no. i mounted it under the dash. the wiring goes thru a hole under the heaterbox, the PCM is under the dash. theres really no neat place to put it underhood, within reach of the stock wiring.

b's90cam

i'm just swaping the dash and console. All the other stuff seems a bit over the top.

MrDude_1

so you're not doing the LS1 swap now?

b's90cam

no i meant im not doing the power antenna and door locks and all that stuff

shr00m

iTrader: (2)

It would honestly be easier to swap the entire harness then to try and use part of the 4th gen body harness.

I would get the engine in and running with your 3rd gen dash. Then later on adapt the newer dash to the 3rd gen dash wiring.

Kevin D.

b's90cam

why?
If i have the entire car why would i not want to use the factory harness? The car will be out of comission for a few weeks so i will have plenty of time to swap the interior and engine and not have to splice more than a couple wires. Sure there is a lot going into the dash swap, but i would rather deal with that than a bunch of wires that i have no clue where to route them.

MrDude_1

few weeks? LOL.

well, it can be done in a few weeks, if you dont have to goto work or school... lol.

i would have a backup car before i started... just in case it takes abit longer.

b's90cam

yeah i do. I have a handful of friends and a garage empty for almost a month and a half. i think i will be alright as long as the finances don't run short.

shr00m

iTrader: (2)

I guess it all depends on your standards.. Sure you could do it in a month or even two weeks, but it's not going to be pretty..

How's that three point rule go again? Out of quick, cheap, and nice; pick two and it won't be the third. I chose cheap and nice, going on 12 months it definitely isn't quick... Sounds like you're going for quick and cheap, which probably isn't going to be nice...

Kevin D.

shr00m

iTrader: (2)

A couple of wires?? Hah.. That's good. I used the entire body harness, guess what needed to be spliced on mine:

all of the lights
HVAC
windshield washer stalk
trunk release
speakers
window motors
door locks
mirrors

Hope you have a service manual for both vehicles for the fun little differences between the way the two wiring systems work even though the colors might be the same..

Kevin D.

StevenK

iTrader: (1)

I feel your pain mang, I'm close to that, everytime I ride in a friends thirdgen I get pissed mine still isnt ready, lol.

LS1 swaps take lots of time, money, and patience. If you don't have those things, then I recommend you just go get a 4th gen.

BTW shroom, what manuals did you get for the 4th gen? I bought the haynes and I *HATE* it. It doesnt have crap, no vacuum diagrams, no heater hose information, practically nothing....such a waste of money

shr00m

iTrader: (2)

Helms all the way.. The 92 Firebird one is pretty easy to get through as it's one volume. The 2000 F-body is three volumes and whatever you need to know is always not where you would think it should be.

Right now all 99-01 GM service manuals in stock are on sale for half price at helminc.com

Kevin D.

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

Yes there is... put your PCM here just like I did. Works/looks great... all I ever get is compliments like "wow, that swap looks factory"

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

Also, as for all the negative feedback from guys saying you can't do the swap quick... they're kinda right. It took me quite awhile to do mine but that was b/c I had to figure alot of things out my self or do them different ways to suit my picky needs. If I were to do another LS1/3rd gen swap I could do it in a few weekends no problem. If you have the motor mounts, xmember, wiring, exhaust, and hoses sorted out you won't have any issues. Its really a simple swap once you know all the tricks. Search my name on here and you'll find alot of useful topics/posts... if nothing else just PM me with a question once you're in the middle of it.

b's90cam

Well, i'm not positive if i'm even getting the car now. My friends insurance company is being a real *** to him and he doesn't want to push the issue in fear they will deny him coverage. But if i did, i would only have to wire the lights and HIVAC. I wouldn't need any of that other stuff. I have a base model v8 rswith power nothing. The radio would be easiest since an amp runs all my speakers. I can't imagine more than a couple days wiring the lights and HIVAC. Drop the engine in a couple hours. Get the wiring situated in a few days to the point where i am happy with it's appearance. And it will take years to get the dash and console to look right. Oh, and bolting in the x-member shouldn't take all that long. That's if i even get it now. Is this unrealistic?

StevenK

iTrader: (1)

Jeremy, how did you mount the ECM?

I am going to use that same spot, and I was just going to take a peice of sheet metal and make something, but it looks like you somehow just mounted it to the coolent tank.

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

Nope, I took some 3/16" thick by 1" wide flat stock and made two "L" pieces out of it. The basically lay flat against the top of the frame rail (horizontal in the car) and bolt to it with 1/4" sheet metal screws and then they bend and come up straight (vertical) with the side of the PCM housing and bolt to it. I cut the plastic mounting area off the PCM housing thing and also cut a little bit of the cooling fins off the PCM to make room for the bolt heads on the back side. Its sounds way more compicated than it is and is a VERY clean install... that was my main objective. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures showing everything I did. Let me know if you need more help, it really wasn't too hard at all, just be creative.

StevenK

iTrader: (1)

Good Info

Thats kind of what I had in my head, just hadnt realized someone else already did it. Hmmm, just started thinking....you know those L shaped brakets at Home depot design for shelving, 1/2 inch wide, pretty thick, maybe 2 inch on one side of the L and 2-6 inch on the other....think that would work?

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

Those might work but if it's what I'm thinking of it will look like crap. Let me see if I can pull my PCM out and take some pics... it turned out so clean and so factory looking.

MrDude_1

it looks ok there, but i bet my spark plugs are easier to change.

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

Plugs aren't a problem either

MrDude_1

i didnt say problem, i said easier....

but theres one thing you 100% cant do with the PCM there...




...and thats put the turbo setup where im putting mine.

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

And that's why I'm considering putting a turbo on the driver's side Already looked into it a little bit

StevenK

iTrader: (1)

How so, the brackets are way down at the bottom, you cant even see em unless you look between the tank and the ECM, right? Not doubting, just asking

And Dude, even if he does have to pull the ECM to change a plug or something, it slides right out of the plastic holder, so I don't see a big deal there....

***, all this talk makes me want to finish my car

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

My brackets actually do not come up between the tank and the PCM... mine come on the engine side of the PCM tray I did that so I could keep the PCM as far away from the motor as possible for heat reasons. I know 1/2" might not make any difference in heat but it couldn't hurt and I also wanted to keep the PCM towards the tank as much as possible to give me room on the engine side of it to route hoses and other stuff. Do whatever works for you but after looking forever for a place to mount the PCM in the engine bay AND using a A/C box.... this was the only solution. I haven't found anyone else that's done it....

shr00m

iTrader: (2)

Mine fits like a glove here. I'm running the 4th gen AC harness which removes a lot of the AC wiring around there (only the blower wires run to the bay). You do have to move your dryer a little more forward, but since custom AC lines are a must anyway it's not that big of a deal.

Kevin D.

StevenK

iTrader: (1)

I tried to use that location shroom, but I couldnt get it down far enough.

And Jeremy, that explains your last comment. If I do end up mounting it like you, I'll paint them so they just blend in with the plastic....or something, I'll let you know what I end up doing.

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

Shroom, I tried mine there as well but it just wasn't going to work out there. What is holding yours down? Is it just sitting there free to rattle/move around??

shr00m

iTrader: (2)

It's wedged nicely in the crook, and the fender bar holds it in place. You'd move the car if you tried to move it.

Of course, like I said, the HVAC relays, resistors, plugs, etc are all inside thanks to the 4th gen harness. Might not fit with just one of those things.

Kevin D.