I ordered and received it a couple of months ago, just got it installed this weekend with help from V8Rumble (thanks, Tim!).

Pictures were an afterthought, sorry about that. My digital camera quit on me, I couldn't find my wife's camera, so cell phone camera had to do.

Hard to see in the picture, but the LS7 pressure plate has travel-stop fingers to prevent overtravel when disengaged.

 

The disk is smaller diameter, but the friction material is wider for more surface area.

The biggest problem we had was removing the old pilot bearing - it's a tight fit, didn't have a proper puller, grease method was completely ineffective (but made a nice mess). Ended up using a leg from a small pulley puller, hooking it on the front side of the bearing, and prying it out.

 

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope you didnt oeverdo the grease trick


Heres what happened to me.......

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=444319

 

I seriously doubt it. The grease squirted out without doing anything.

I suppose I should pull the tranny back off and take a close look in there. Or, is it subtle? I might be doing this whole thing over again, huh? I did wipe out the grease before putting the new pilot bearing in, didn't notice anything amiss (but didn't know what to look for, either - hadn't heard anything about a hollow crank before this).

 

Nope, not to worry - we couldn't get nearly enough pressure to pop a plug out like that - we just couldn't find anything that had a .600" diameter to match the ID of the bearing.

I'd be REALLY surprised if we'd managed to damage anything (besides the old bearing)...

 

And we didn't damage the bearing with the grease, just the one-armed puller we rigged up.

 

The trouble is its only a freeze plug in there that is sealed with a bit of red high heat silicone. Not very heavy its about 16 awg sheet metal you know just like the regular block freeze plugs on a sb just smaller. The hole in the center of the crank is about 1/2" and if the plug is compromised or gone it will spray oil out like nobody's business. In my case it really did not take much of a wallop to send it right into the pan I couldnt figure out where all the grease was going. So if you feel like you bottomed out your driver in the crank even mildly I'd be concerned. Good luck!

 

The grease certainly didn't disappear - it came squirting right back out the center of the bearing. When I wiped out the cavity after we did get the bearing out, I remember there being a solid wall in the front of the cavity (I didn't expect anything else), but I wasn't looking for a plug, either.

I'll pull the tranny back off and see if I can look in there. Might have to pull the clutch back off to get a good enough look, but that's not a biggie, either. Certainly easier to do it now than it will be if I need to fix an oil leak after getting it running.

Maybe while I'm at it I'll write the Haynes people and let them know they need to tell LS1 owners that they need to use a puller.

 

Hahaha thats too funny! Send them a bill while your at it

As for me? Bleh I relied on knowledge gained from previous sbc and bbc builds and figured I knew all going into this swap... The LS1's are definitely an easier platform to work on, but they certainly have some rather simple yet rather dangerous differences such as this little pilot bearing caper that if overlooked, can become MAJOR pita's.

Like trying to use the ol' marker trick to calculate push rod length... umm yeah dont ask

 

Haha.. CAM jumped all over this I was thinking of my grease reply as I was reading along and saw you got em. haha.

Ide like to go with the LS7 set up...but Im hearing mixed things about how well it will hold with what I have, and going to the track. I might have to splurge and get the Tex... Thats an expensive endeavor though.

J.

 

Ya that damn pilot bushing caused me a TON of grief. Cest la vies

As for the LS7 clutch. Its a great clutch for dual duty I have pulled consistent 1.6x 60's with it but it was smelling bad last time out. I have about 60 passes on it dead hooking 20 or so off 5000 plus RPM launches. I am very impressed with what its stood up to thus far. I'm right at 400 rwhp so mild by LS1 standards and I would think much more than that would be hard on this clutch at the track. Street duty I'd say its the ultimate clutch I cant see how you could hurt it even over 500 rwhp if your on radials.

Chirps fourth every time

 

Hmmm... Well, I have a spec +3 in there now. I dont know how many miles, because the previous owner got it used with a T56 swap. It doesnt seem to slip or anything. But since Ill have my motor and trans out this spring, so I figured if I was going to do a clutch swap, now is the best time. I dont know what my RWHP will be, but hopefully more than it is now. Cam swap comin this spring too. Another one of those, "while the motor is out" upgrades. haha.

Ill give the LS7 clutch some more though I guess. Thats a cheap cheap way to replace everything. Ide like to have a light flywheel though...I have one now and love it. So I gotta look into things. I probably wont see the track as much as you, and Ill probably be on street tires when I go. Ide liek to go to something sticky at some point, but Im in no hurry.

J.

 

If your not putting sticky tires on then it'll be fine you wont hurt it. YOu can get the fidanza aluminum for pretty cheap <300 I've seen.

 

as cam said...


shows the bearing being removed and the location of the plug

 

Yeah Ive seen them pretty cheap. Not sure that I couldnt just re-use the lightened one that I have though. I gotta dig in and see. If Im going to plop even close to $500 on an LS7 clutch set up, I might be willing to hold out alittle and just spend the extra $500 on a TEX and probably never have to replace it again. Decisions decisions....haha Stupid cars... Either way i might do something. Like I said before, the motor will be out. What better time.

J.

 

The flywheel is different on the LS7 clutch. They changed the design for the GTO LS2 and the older clutch pressure plates and disks are radically different. I dont think you could easily resurface an LS2/7 flywheel either it has raised tabs. Its always a good plan to change flywheels instead of resurfacing especially on fast cars. Do a search over at LS1tech about clutch explosions... scary stuff.

One of my good friends blew up his clutch/flywheel on a 78 455 Trans Am. It blew the flywheel through the floor and part of the passenger side door and then through the wall of a church about 150' away... Scary. If it had of come through the drivers side... hamburger

 

I have a buddy who has an '01 Z28 who has used Spec 3 and the LS7 clutch, and he said the LS7 clutch was better hands down. I'm going to put an LS7 in my '98 in about the next month. Grips as hard as a Spec, but street drivability is very good. $399 plus shipping for the LS7 setup from SDPC vs $964 for the Tex setup.....and loose alot of drivability.

 

Yeah as for driving impressions? The LS7 cant be beat its smoother than any clutch I ran with my last t56. Feels like a very smooth stock clutch but it does have great bite. Only knock against it is hard launches on stickies will be where the spec and tex have the edge. Otherwise its all on the LS7. Mind you the LS7 set up is heavier than the others as well so there could be some parasitic hp loss

 

Ah...forgot about the flywheel differences. And yeah...I would MUCH rather get a new flywheel. And I doubt I could resist not replacing it even if it was a good idea. I have WAY too much time and work into my car to cheap out on it now. Even though I did wreck it.. haha. Ooops.

Klortho: Yeah the LS7 set up is a great price. I like a lightened flywheel, so there would be some added cost to the kit. But...have you heard that the driveability of the Tex is worse than a stock set up? Everyone that has reviewed it has said it drives like a stock clutch, and even has a lighter pedal feel in most cases.

I guess I would probably be ok with the LS7... Its just that I KNOW Ill be running slicks once I get the cage finished and Im allowed to actually hook at the track. So Im just trying to plan ahead to save me some work and maybe some money in the long run.

Also..my swap was the first manual car I owned and daily drove. Knew how to drive stick before..but Im sure that Spec III took a beating from me getting used to it. haha. Doesnt seem to slip, but I dont launch on it real hard either. NOt sure Ide trust it for slicked clutch dumps.

J.

 

One of the reasons I started this thread was to show the differences. I realize the photos aren't the best quality, but you can see the raised tabs on the LS7 flywheel.

 

Yup... I can see them now that Im thinking about them being different! Thanks for the pics by the way... Sorry for the slight hi-jack... Get goin on something and its hard to stop yappin!

Keep us updated on your progress with it!

J.

 

S'allright. I was expecting a discussion of the various clutch options.

Hey, Tim, guess what I picked up at Harbor Freight this weekend? (Needed a different head-installed valve spring compressor to work with beehive retainers, this nifty - and last one on the shelf - tool was right next to it.)

 

Just couldn't resist the temptation, huh?? Not sure which tool you're referring to, but I'll have to check it out next time I see ya...

 

Not to hijack further but the "Larry's tool" works super duper for valve spring swaps on LS1's while the heads are on the car if you run into any troubles.

 

The one that does the job without grease

The spring compressor I had was too wide for the smaller beehive retainer. I'm changing the 396 springs, actually. The HB compressor worked fine for the smaller retainer. There's a retainer somewhere in my garage doing an excellent job of hiding. I pulled things out from under the bench that I hadn't seen in a decade, but I still don't know where that stupid retainer is. 15 retainers doesn't cut it on a Chevy V8.

 

Gah we've all been there before. Those are the little moments never accounted for in swap type build ups. Something as minor as ONE little retainer can hold you up for a couple of days. Where does one buy ONE retainer? PITA!

Things like that are about the point where I cease to work and open a beer LOL

 

www.summitracing.com . "Should ship by 4-4".

Another thing not accounted for in the typical swap time estimate. I've chosen not to include it in the equation.

 

Bwahaha denial is a powerful tool

 

I thought that was a river in Egypt. . .

Actually, I don't. None in the house. Certainly not in the garage. I value my digits and limbs too much for that.

 

You'll never believe what I found this morning. . .

 

where was it?

 

Okay, I've got a sturdy homemade 6' bench in the front corner of the garage, in front of the car. I was compressing the new spring for the 5th cylinder over the bench when the retainer slipped out (the 3rd time that had happened) and smacked the wall by the end of the bench - I knew that's where it hit, but not where it went. There is a bunch of stuff stacked up along the wall there, and the air compressors and old Forney arc welder are under the bench, too. I pulled all of the small stuff out, worked the bench away from the wall by moving the compressor as far as they'd go, moving the welder as far as it would go, move the bench, look, move more stuff, shuffle the compressors/welder/bench some more, but couldn't find the thing. I finally gave up, got the new spring compressor, finished that cylinder, and ran out of time to work on it any more.

This morning, I was out looking for some tools to do some work in the kitchen for my wife, and thought I'd check on top of the welder where the cables are coiled and I keep the slag hammer, etc. Pulled all that stuff out, felt around on top of the welder, nothing. Got the drop light, looked under the welder, and there was the retainer. I had looked all over under there, felt around the welder wheels, it wasn't there before. It must have zinged between the bench and the top of the welder and got stuck in the cables and stuff - and must have been on the edge, because it had to have fallen off the back side when I first started disturbing the cables up there.

Lost about 2 hours of work time looking for that stupid thing. I guess I can cancel the backorder with Summit now.

Assuming another one doesn't take flight on me. . .

 

haha...thats great! That crap happens to me all the time. Not just with car parts. Lol.

If you are worried...put something over the motor like a clear plastic bag or something. That way if something goes sailing it wont get far.

Glad to hear ya found it! Those summit backorders can get ugly, especially when they keep backing it up...like my fuel injection fittings...

J.

 

I think I've run it long enough now to be able to say it didn't happen to me.

 

Lucky man! Hows everything working? Get your first drive yet?

 

No, it isn't back on the floor yet. Need to hook up the steam line, bleed the brakes, install the subframe connectors, adjust the park brake, then I can drop it on all fours. Also need some more air intake parts (estimated delivery = Wednesday).

As far as how things are working, I need to fix whatever's wrong with the instrument panel lights, and install the stereo & console, otherwise things seem to be working.

The drive - well, open headers probably aren't conducive to that. . .

 

Right now I have close to 20k miles on mine and still going strong, haven't done alot of 5k dumps, but have done a few rolling 3k dumps running hard and speed shifting it at the redline without letting out of the gas, I love the clutch and the feel is just awesome.

 

Yeah the LS7 clutch is a stout piece thats for sure. The one I just pulled from my car still looks like new Im blown away considering the abuse I put it through. Well at least i thought it was abuse and seeing as Ive run a 6spd for ten years now and been through a bunch of clutches I figured this was down right awful abuse but

The LS7 clutch disagreed with me. No abuse evidence present here

 

Still over a month away, but any tips on anything I need to do to get the clutch ready for the first race day next month? Baby it? Drive normally? Get a certain number of cycles on it? Go out and beat on it?

 

One thing I have made habit is I do break in clutches carefully nowadays. On my previous sb/t56 I dropped in a new clutch one Friday night and... well... Monday morning I was working on the car again

In my opinion those LTx pull clutches are complete crap and none of them were any good from what i tried.

Considering that and my experience I must have put a solid 1000 miles on the LS7 clutch before I launched it hard or tried shifting fast. I did honk on it right from the get go but only once it was engaged and I shifted like a granny during this period.

When I did track the car the first time I am really guessing here but I had a good load of street miles on it first. That said the very first time down i did literally try and break stuff. What I mean by that is I was trying to make certain the car was good enough to go the distance so I was launching off the limiter and hot lapping and doing all the things that your not supposed to do and I never had a whimper from anything. I think I did about 25 passes that night too so it was beat on pretty hard.

Over time I did notice that the clutch was increasingly not really liking hard dumps at high RPM and it started to smell pretty bad. I thought for sure I had done it in although it never slipped any nor did it go any slower. In fact the oddest thing... This LS1/m6 went faster every year. The more miles I put on it the better it ran and it was using less and less oil. This was definitely a first of its kind experience for me as most everything I've ever built slowed a little with each passing mile it seemed. ( aside from a sled or two but two strokes are a different animal )

Anyways not sure if this helps you out or not as it sounds like your going to track it a bit earlier than I did but I did notice that the clutch seemed to like 5500RPM launches the best. This RPM was a nice balance between getting out fast without feeling like I was murdering the clutch from too much RPM or bogging it with too low RPM launch. I straight leg dumped it as well I didnt side step it. This seemed to get me out the quickest and I must have cut 100 or so 1.6x 60's on the car using this method.

Just be sure to keep an eye on the dang clutch fluid I also think there is a TON of clutch dust from the LS7 clutch more so than others so the fluid gets dirty quick.

When work mellows out a bit and I can actually work on my car again im going to post pics of my LS7 clutch its still looking mighty fine much to my surprise. I'd run it again without worry but I already have Tex Z grip thats a lot lighter and Im adding quite a bit more power so I figure i might as well run it. Might sell the LS7 I dunno

 

Since this thread is a hundred years old anyway, I don't feel too bad hijacking.

Anybody considered the LS9 clutch? I'm estimating 475-500RWHP, plus a 150 shot, so I'm not exactly sure how the LS7 clutch will hold up, but I don't want a grabby aftermarket clutch that makes me hate driving the car.

Hmm... apparently the LS9 has a 9-bolts that attach it to the flywheel, not just the usual 6. That means the LS9 clutch is out unless it'll work with a different flywheel.

It also seems that the LS9 clutch's stack height may present physical issues with using it in something other than a ZR1.

BTW, the LS9 clutch is about $625.

 

Correctomundo. Shame too as its an amazing clutch from everything I've read on it. Very lightweight, drives like stock but twin disk mega grip whats not to like about that?

FWIW if you are building an engine and changing the crank you can order cranks from some manufacturers with the correct bolt pattern to use the LS9 clutch. Callies for sure not sure who/if anyone else does this

 

Sounds like blatant age discrimination to me.

You might want to reconsider - it's not a hundred years old, it's in its "terrible twos". . .

 

Seems that the flywheel isn't the only issue that would need to be ironed out. The stack height also prevents it from being used in f-body style setups, which means that I'd be playing games with throwout bearings and God knows what else, all to use a clutch that's "rare" and insanely expensive if I need to step up to aftermarket equivalents.

Looks like I need to either stick with an LS7 and hope that it holds or cough up the dough on an aftermarket clutch and hope that I don't hate it.

 

Funny enough I did a little re-checking into this after your post here as I know I looked into it before I just couldnt recall why it didnt work out. You are correct it will not clear on f-body t56 applications but it does work on some Corvette retrofits. Katech makes a custom flywheel and sells the whole kit for this very reasonably priced considering the caliber of clutch you get. Too bad it doesnt work out for us

As for the LS7 clutch? Its tough and holds great. Its only downfalls are the big weight and the friction material isnt perfect for super fast short times. Otherwise it wins out ALL the current competition for every other aspect IMO. Best price, street manners and durability.

So long as your not expecting wheels up action on a regular basis I think you'll love it.

Im still on the fence whether or not I put mine back in or not. I keep going back and forth day to day... but I already bought the TEX so....

blah who knows

 

I like the idea of stock-type drivability out of the LS7 clutch, but 500RWHP plus a 150 shot might be an awful lot to ask from that clutch. I just wish I could drive a car with a Monster stage 3 or Spec stage 3 clutch to see if it's something that I'd be happy with.

 

Agreed that is a TON of grunt thats going to put the LS7 to work at the track thats for sure. On the street I still think you'll be fine but launching with that kind of power though an LS7 and your going to be losing out on your short times thats a given. I still think the clutch itself will handle it theres a thread over at tech called the LS7 clutch that wouldnt die or something to that nature where a member abused the hell out of his LS7 with spray and two seasons of tracking with hundreds of passes etc. When he pulled it out it was still all within spec and he could have re-used it.

I think I'd base the decision on whether or not track performance was my primary concern. I went for the TEX Z grip which is pretty much the exact same thing as a Spec 3 or a Monster 3 they are share the identical friction disk which is ceramic/metalic somethingoranother and they all use the same Luk pressure plate to start with. They just swap the springs on the pressure plate to add grip is all. What makes TEX unique is they also change the cam arms on their pressure plates to make pedal feel easier. Otherwise they all are pretty much identical.

As for driveability? They are grabby... All of them. It makes smooth street launching a bit of a trick as you really have no margin for error. Too much gas and you blow the tires off, not enough and it'll bog and chatter. Its sort of a gas on/clutch out/all at once/all the exact same needed to make them "seem" relatively normal. I have minimal experience with them and have only ridden in cars with them. One had a Spec twin disk as well and IMO they all seemed manageable to me and at the time I "thought" my LS7 clutch was probably done and seeing as I was going up in power I better step up my clutch as well.

Now? Still not sure but Im gunning for 450-500 rwhp with this build and no spray. I know Im going to be chasing some parts back and forth to get this thing working like I want it to so I might try the TEX first and see. If I dont like it I can always throw the LS7 back in.

In fact I think that makes the most sense and probably what i'll do.

Considering that the LS7 is low buck Jim you could always start out with it and see how you like it. If its not up to your requirements they sell used for not a lot less than new so you wouldn't be out a ton of coin and then step up to whatever style you want.

Speaking of that I was following the Spec 3+ for a while as I really like the disk design they had but I never see anyone running it anymore. I wonder why?

 

You make some good points. As much as I would love to flog this car at the track all the time, the reality is that I'll be lucky to get there a couple times a year. I can sacrifice a couple tenths for the sake of driveability. Likewise, who knows when (if) I'll ever get the nitrous on. LS7 sounds like the way to go until I determine that I've exceeded it's usefulness

 

I doubt I'll get 1000 miles on it before going to the track. I will, most likely, drive it to work for a couple of weeks. I have a choice between a stop-&-go surface street route, or a mostly-freeway route.

 

Stop and go route for a week sounds plenty to me