Yeah, I know its been asked before but here is what Im working with...

91 RS V8 5-speed (L03 car). I recently took the tags off of it since it refuses to pass Maryland emissions. I was basically too lazy to try and fix it since I was already planning to build a 383 for it. Screw it, turn in the tags...

I know and fully understand the power of the LSX engines. Im considering an LQ4 with either L92 heads or ported LS6 heads and a 224 - 230'ish cam. Here is what Im afraid of.

Clutch and brake pedals
Accelerator cable
Wiring
Exhaust (manifolds vs longtubes)
Getting the correct year LQ4 (01-02 to use a T56, correct?)
Money

I can handle all of the above mentioned but Im afraid I will get discouraged mid-way thru. HELL, it will cost as much if not more to do the 383 the way I really want it (383, AFR 195's, 230 cam). Plus if I wanna keep EFI on it, thats even more money. But I know (well, at least I ASSUME) the LQ4 will make more power more efficiently. Money? Im hoping for this promotion. That will help out a lot. I know that once it gets done, she will scream.

I feel this urge to rush to get it done. The QUICKEST way would be to build the 383. Drops right in. Simpler to get done. Easier. But I WANT that godforsaken LSX!

What do I do? All you guys make it look relatively easy.

ANY and ALL advice or counseling would be GREATLY appreciated. LOL!

Thanks in advance!

 

I would go with the LS motor. The coolness factor alone is the best part.

Picture this.. Some mustang dude comes up next to you and he's actin all tough thinkin you just have a crappy 305.. You floor that Sh*t and blow his doors off! Next stop light he wants to know what your runnin and you get to say.. Its an LSX biiaaatch.. hahaha.. Thats my dream anyways.

 

I had a friend in the car who hadn't rode in it with it's most recent mods.
It was almost 100* outside with very high humidity.
I took a left at a stoplight and rolled it on to the floor.
It barked 2nd gear.
It barked 3rd gear.
It barked 4th gear.
It never nosed over.

yeah I'm pretty much done with gen 1 blocks.

 

Any LQ4 will work with a T56, its just that if you have a 99 or '00 block, you would have to swap the crank with an LS1 or newer LQ4 crank or other equivalent.

I got scared when I bought my LQ4 since it was an older block. I didn't think I would be able to use a T56 but after hearing that a simple crank swap would fix the problem, I started tearing it down to put an LS1 crank in it. I'm glad I did, cuz the inside of the motor looked like crap. You never know what these things look like until you open them up! Needless to say, it got a full rebuild, bore and hone, and an MS4. If you go with an LQ4 I think the 224 will be too mild and you will wish you went bigger.

Luckily there are lots of predecessors who have already blazed the trail with this swap, so just follow their lead. I am lucky in that there is a number of those people in my local area. Like you, the wiring and trans swap stuff will be the hardest, so I'm counting on the tech help on these forums to get me through it!

 

Dude half your list is cake. Clutch and brake pedals... You are already a T5 right? You are leaps and bounds above the auto guys. The only thing you need to decide is the peg that the clutch master rod attaches to. My favorite path...knock that peg out and weld in a 4th gen peg. Done. Stay with your thirdgen pedals since you already have em....and if you dont want to do the peg swap, there are other easy ways.

Throttle cable. Stock LS1 non-traction control cable. Tie a knot in the end by the pedal, maybe a zip tie or two...done.

Wiring. If you get the Fuse blocks/power distribution blocks from the donor vehicle, you can almost keep it totally plug and play. This doesnt require much wiring on your part, but you'll want to delete circuits you dont need. Just to clean things up. If you really are scared of wiring, save some dough and go with Speartech. Cleanest, easiest solution.

Exhaust. This comes down to two things. You havent passed emissions...I dont know MD laws, but Im assuming you'll have to pass at some point...? So you might be limited, but I think you can probably get the headers to pass. Its more of a preference at that point. Be aware that conversion headers will proably be the most expensive part next to the actual motor. The stock LS manifolds flow pretty decent, so you can definatly start out with those...then upgrade later.

Bluezee answered the T56 question...I dont know a ton about the LQ4..so go with that info haha.

Finally...money. Only you can answer that. Whatever budget you come up with, add a few more grand to that because little stuff always pops up. Also, keep in mind, your thirdgen wasnt designed for the power and torque the LS style motors make. You have to account for supporting mods not specifically pertaining to the swap. Sub frame connectors, maybe some steering suspension upgrades, etc. You are going to want the car to be safe when you start playing with you newfound power.

Yes you can build a 383 and it'll run great. I doubt it'll be as streetable as the LQ/LS or as efficient. And yes it'll drop right in, but with the swap parts available, so will the LS motors more or less. Exhaust is about the only thing that needs some imagination these days.

Ill never go back to a gen I motor in my thirdgen again. Never ever. Maybe if I build another car...like an older car. But Im totally sold on these motors. Power, reliability, great response to mods, fairly cheap to mod, parts all over the place and even with some decent mods, I still pull awesome MPG with the 6spd. Also, the info out there for doing the swaps is CRAZY now compared to when some of us did it...and the guys before had even less. So that helps a ton

Good luck!

J.

P.S.....can you tell Im bored at work? haha. This normally would have got a "search" type response hehe

 

Im kinda glad that I didnt get a "search" response. LOL!

GC, I have been following your latest swap and I feel honored that any of you all even replied to my post. I really appreciate the replies.

Now all I have to do is get off my butt, fix my S10, move the Camaro into the "engine swap bay" and pull the 305 out. I guess that will get me motivated huh?

Maybe if I leave this stinkin Maxima alone, I can get moving on the Camaro. Dont even ask about what I have done to the Maxima...

 

I would be the guy that would say....its just a stock TBI 305

 

any motor that can make 400hp n/a without breaking a sweat, take a 200shot of nitrous without tuning and make 20+ mpg on a th400 is a winner in my book.

also when somebody asks i say its just a stock trans am motor with a couple bolt ons. I just never say what year lol

 

Ive used "Its a stock motor with some bolt ons." Technicalyl its a stock motor..in something. And everything thats on it bolted on..haha.

The other Ive used, and I use this with the real ignorant folks, "Its just a tuned port small block.". haha...they automatically think TPI.

Usually, its pretty obvious something is up though hahaha...

J.

 

I know what you mean about getting motivated. I am 4 weeks from "D-Day" with my swap. I am finishing up painting a Trans Am for a friend and when he picks it up, the Z goes back to the garage to get its heart ripped out. That, above all else, will motivate me to keep throwing more money and time at it.

And be thankful you have a T5. I am swapping to a T56 from an automatic, which in my opinion will be the hardest part of the whole thing...

 

Yeah. I wouldnt have it any other way. Its the ONLY way to have a sports/muscle car.

Let me stop. I dont wanna start a stick vs automatic debate...

 

Since you are having trouble passing emissions with that L03, I don't think a done up 383 is the answer. An LSx with a mild cam however can still be emissions legal from what I've heard though.

 

Technically, an LSx swap has to be of the passenger car type (iron 6.0's don't meet that criterion), and have all of the equipment that the certified passenger vehicle had (nearly impossible due to the cat configuration of 4th gens). The vapor recovery system has to function like the donor system, etc., etc., etc.

But, you may be able to "get by" with a cat in the 3rd gen location and a clean sniffer if that's all your local inspection/test does. However, it still technically isn't legal.

Of course, neither is a 383 TBI. . .

 

Fortunatly, there are no emissions testing for 1995 and older in Missouri (or is it 1996, I can't remember). All they will check on my car is if there is a cat on the exhaust and if the tips go out to the bumper or at least have a turn down prior to the axle.

 

FORTUNATELY there is no visual inspection in Maryland. I just need to pass the sniffer while on the dreaded roller. Off the roller it will pass but they stopped doing that on my car for some reason.

The L03 has 2 dead cylinders and its not ignition related. The previous owner overheated it. I think the head gasket is blown between cylinders 6 and 8. Compression REALLY LOW!

TBI? Heck naw! I was thinking Miniram...

 

I wish we had it THAT good. Maryland used to let you exempt the car if you had an engine in the car older than '76, I believe. I had a Monte Carlo that was emissions exempted. I wish I wouldve kept that car!

 

Thank god i saw this post, was just about to make one like it myself.

LQ4's go from $500-$1000 around here, i already got one spotted about 1.5 hours away SO the 6L i want should be a 01 and newer? i'll have to check that out.

For all you lq4'ers out there. ABOUT how much do you got into the swap? 3K +?

 

Small cam? Maybe. 230'ish@.050? Maybe with a wide lobe spread and tuned REALLY LEAN. I know someone who did it. Cats installed of course. 110* lobe spread? HELL NAW!

I can hear it now. "Sir, please take that stinky polluting POS to the junkyard and dispose of it. Have a nice day!"

 

Including the purchase of the block ($950), I've got $4,000 just in the motor. Yea, it's gonna be a beast.

I know I didn't take the most cost effective route with the swap, if I was going to do it cheaper I could have bought a wrecked Fbody and took everything I needed. I am going to enjoy having those .3 extra liters and having a brand new block with all new internals though.

I'm going to make a prediction and say that the rest of the swap will cost me about another $3,500-4,000 depending on how cheap I can get a T56. I'll keep you updated in my swap thread, which is currently just a few threads down from this one.

 

Thanks Nick! That will be one hell of a car. I just read car crafts article on their 480 hp motor for $3775! Carb is less $$$ too. I think over some time i could build it up to be a screamer. Here's the article (im sure you already read it though)

http://www.carcraft.com/projectbuild...ock/index.html

PARTS LISTDESCRIPTIONPNSOURCEPRICELQ4, iron 6.0L, usedN/ALKQ$1,100.00GMPP carb intake 88958675Scoggin-Dickey369.75Fel-Pro intake gasket1312-1Summit Racing22.69Fel-Pro header gasket1438Summit Racing26.36GMPP Hot cam kit12480033Scoggin-Dickey429.95MSD ignition conversion6010Summit Racing303.88MSD extension harness60101Summit Racing178.95Carb, Holley 750 0-47790-4779C415.95Headers, Kooks, 131/4465005Kooks Headers864.90Pennzoil platinum oil5W-30Amazon29.95Fram oil filter4967Amazon4.95Total$3,747.33OPTIONAL PARTSHooker 131/44 LS1 swap2288-1HKRSummit Racing$629.95

 

HOLY CRAP $8000 in a swap!!!

So uh you wanna race

 

I probably couldve done it for about $5,500 if I didn't rebuild the motor. I'm glad I did though, it was pretty worn out.

Ya I'll race you hehe. Gimme a few more months to finish it up.

And hey, are you gonna come hang out with us at my GTG July 17-18? Its the same thing I did about two yrs ago.

 

My 383 gets about 10 mpg.
I can't wait for when I can put my LS1 in.
BTW- all that extra energy (fuel) the 383 uses turns into heat from the engine.

 

NM
edit:seriously why can't we delete messages on here

 

Only if you have about $10k, a lot of knowledge and are willing to endure all the hassles, otherwise it will be just another project found in the scrap yard unfinished.

 

HAHAHA...was that in reference to the original question if an LSx swap was worth it??

 

Not right now I dont. Heck, I was probably gonna spend that much in the 383 alone (parts, machine work, etc)! Not including the T5 to T56 swap!

Im a former auto and diesel tech. Now Im an I.T. Specialist for the Federal Government. Knowledge? Yeah I got a lil bit . Endurance? Well... I did rebuild a 3.2 Taurus SHO engine recently. That made me pull all of my hair out. And Im BALD! LOL!

Nah. I hope not. Once I get rolling on something, I usually dont stop. And I have been too busy working on other peoples stuff. Its time for me to work on mine.

 

I think I'm going to start a shop for all the people who think it costs 10K and takes 2 years.
I'll buy donor cars for $2500. Pull the power train, then sell off the rest of the car to recoup some of my costs.
Then charge you guys $8000 (a SAVINGS of $2000) to have it installed in 2-3 weeks.

 

It's a timing thing. How long between the post and the attempt to delete?

Some have power not limited by the clock, however. . .

My own project is taking much, much longer than I had hoped. But, that isn't due so much to the project, but due to the time I can devote to it. I made great headway in Feb-March, but had set a stop-work deadline of March 31 because I had to get the '57 ready for the racing season (part of which was a flexplate replacement, which I thought was a nice-to-do, and turned out to be a major failure waiting to happen). Since then I've gotten back to it twice, other have-to-do projects getting in the way, and the poor LS1 swap car has turned into a storage shelf. I hoped to rectify that soon, and wouldn't you know it, the starter quite on Berlinetta #1 today (at least it was leaving home to go to work, and not leaving to go home from work).

I still don't have the first minute of run time on this project, but all my research in the last two years has lead me to get two more engines (LQ4's this time) for future projects.

And, yes, I admit it, I am incurable. . .

 

Are yall using a aftermarket k-member or just the swap mounts i have a 85 im taking apart to paint to motor swap i was debating on the same either lq4 or gen 1 but i think i desided on the lq4

 

That's not a bad idea actually


I will probably be calling you and Jeremy a lot over the fall/winter begging for help on mine though

 

Worth it? I'm happier than I thought I would be and i had some high expectations. I still have yet to find one single person whos actually done the swap thats not happy with it.

As for time? SoooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOO much has changed in the years since I did my swap. You can buy anything you need now and theres lots of info and helpful guys with experience now. Not to mention the costs of LS engines have dropped waaaaaaay down. Truck engines are literally everywhere and why shouldnt they be? Its not like the blow up so theres TONS of supply and the demand is relatively low

If someone put a gun to my head providing I had all the parts ( ALL OF EM ) I could probably do my swap from start to finish in a week.

Took me darn near two years to finish mine originally though as there was plenty of head scratching. Plus I did loads of other mods that arent LS1 swap specific, and at one point the car sat for many months and I never touched it.... Its not like I slaved over it or anything. Besides pretty much the entire build was done with a beer in one hand, its not like I was in a giant rush.

Plus I totally enjoyed the build even though there were more than one or two tense moments but hey I didnt write the sticky for no good reason. Info was SCARCE back then but my attitude has always been... If its easy it probably aint worth it. Funny thing is too... on every previous build of every previous car I ever had NOT ONE has stayed the same way for more than a season. I'm on season three with this swap and so far? Oil changes... Thats it. TONS of trips to the track and I'm talking 7K RPM dumps on slicks and all sorts of street running and I'm still delighted with it. Odd really as to why... Theres almost a magical element for me with this LS1 I just love it... It seems like theres always juuuust enough extra snap to blow by or past anything I want to plus its so damn reliable, like a stock car just turn key easy reliability that NO SMALL ( or big ) block could ever have. I've had plenty right from brand new to built to used and as good as some were they all slowed down considerably after a season or two. Not this LS1.. In fact its trapping higher now than it ever did. Each year it traps higher than the year prior. Can you explain that? Never uses oil either

Only people I've ever heard knock it are then ones that havent done it. Not saying they should do it theres plenty of cheaper and easier ways to go fast but LS1's have to be the most damn addictive powerplant. They really are a gem

 

only thing i'm knocking is the week I wasted on the motor mounts since the trans dapt adapter plates didn't work out for me so well. I'm going to motor plate the car this winter and be done with it all together. Engine swaps will be a ton faster as well since I change motors at least once a year.

 

Thats actually good to hear Cam. I have done a few builds also and yes, they did indeed either slow down, start using oil or break down for one reason or another.

Im pretty much convinced which way I wanna go now. I dont remember seeing a thread like this one (I may have missed it if there is one). I will search for one just in case.

If not, maybe a sticky should be started called "LSX swap owner satisfaction". Thats if it doesnt exist...

Searching...

 

Man oh man, can I relate to that! I might just try & bust a little bit of time loose tonight, but we'll see if I can swing it...

You forgot about the FWD 5.3 for the wife's car! (Actually, I'd like to drop a FWD 5.3 into my own little DD car - doing that should make it move out NICELY!)

 

Perhaps you missed paragraph 2 from the sticky here below?

 

LOL! Im blind...

 

LOL! Then this project isn't for you. LOL!

 

could u point me in the direction of a $2500 LS1 donor car? I haven't been able to locate one for under 4500 with a T56.

 

Depending on your location, you can find them in the sub $3000 range. I paid roughly 6 for my donor car. That was with a head/cam motor, built 6speed, and a strange 12bolt rear. I used a TON of parts off that car...not just the drivetrain. Dont forget...our rear suspension is the same. And, I made a few grand back selling the left over parts. It was a vert, and I got about $800 just on the top alone!! Sold the front clip to an LT guy doing a conversion. Sold the entire dash to someone else. If youre smart, you can make some money out of it.

A good place to start looking for a donor is over on LS1tech. I drove from PA to Baltimore MD to get mine from a member on tech. Being willing to pay for shipping or renting a truck/trailer to pick it up will help big time. Opens up your options by a ton.

J.

 

Oh yes it is!

Couldnt find any LS1's or LQ4's this weekend due to the holiday...

I will try again later this week. I gotta get the S10 moved SOON so I can move the Camaro over to the longer bay. Then again, I have a buddy who just asked me Saturday night to R&R the engine in his Caddy (rear drive 350 non-LT style), so I might be able to make some extra money for the project. And I was recently asked to do a LT4 head swap on a 96 Impala. So, the money should be coming in pretty quickly now.

I will keep you all posted. Thanks again for the inspiration!