Hi guys,
We Have been working EXCLUSIVELY with Stainless Works to come out with a 2in Primary LS swap header with 3in collector and ypipe into a 3.5 in exhaust single inlet/outlet all with V bands ALL OF THESE KITS WERE DESIGNED around HAWKS LONG TUBE TRANS CROSS MEMBER and the BMR TRAK PAC TORQUE ARM . These will work with a stock Kmember or the BMR OR Spohn K member but was designed around the STOCK K member.
As with all of the other y pipes in the past the auto y pipe is about 3/8 of a inch lower than the torque arm cross bar, they way the trans pan and frame rail are this is a HIGH AS WE COULD GET IT and it is 3in. We are planning on a seperate cross member for the auto and T56. This was designed to be a COMPLETE BOLT ON system for the do it yourselfer not welding or modifing again these will be sold as a COMPLETE KIT (headers to exhaust tip) for now.
retail is going to be around the 2200.00 range compelte ( I know this seems high but add up a set of stainless hewaders y pipe and exhaust not to mention the v bands) final pricing is not set as of yet if you guys have any suggestions or comments dont hesitate to call or email. Some pics below and some will be added later.
Thanks,Bruce
www.hawksthirdgenparts.com
864-855-2694

 

More pics

 

A couple more

 

Will the headers be available by themselves like the others? I would prefer to arrange my own Y-pipe...

Taurus

 

Hi,
Not at this time We have had soooo many customer ask and complain that we do not offer a 3in y pipe so we went the route of offering a COMPLETE bolt on system ypipe and all so at this time the headers will not be offered by themselves due to the fact of the OVERWHELMING response of customers wanting a 3in bolt in y pipe along with our headers.
Thanks,Bruce

 

Here are some pics of the primary tubes from top.
Thanks,Bruce

 

Looks good and nicely tucked too I might add. Why the 2" primary instead of 1 7/8" Im curious?

 

that price is steep..... for someone who has NO fab skills at all and a ton of money are the folks that will be buying that kit.
glad to see the headers were built around an automatic. that will save a bunch of trouble down the road.
if the headers were offered alone for 9-1200 bucks id bet you would sell a ton of them.

 

Wow. Just... Wow.

When I saw '2" primaries' in the subject, I started thinking that I might just reconsider & get a set of your headers - and then I read the thread, & it just completely reinforced everything that I'd argued before.

No offense to anyone, but I already have a welder, & for that kind of price & attitude, it's worth it to me to weld up my own.

 

2" primaries and no 3.5" collectors, why? Anyone who would want this type of exhaust I would imagine would be 3.5" collectors and a 4" y-pipe minimum IMO.

 

why not make them out of mild steel and sell them for $400, and I'm not saying these in particular, but all of your headers, make it an option to go stainless??? $2200 for an exhaust??? is it gold plated???

 

you wont find anyone to make and sell a set of headers for 400 bucks if they are in business to make a profit.

 

even the hooker super comps for a regular gen 1 motor are $550 for a pair new

 

I know, but I still can't see paying 2200 for an exhaust, last time I prices hooker 2210's, I think they were around $450, and I understand that these are swap headers, so the demand is lower and price goes up, but $800 for just the headers??? then you can only get them is you buy the whole kit, so $2200, why not make them out of a lower grade material and sell them cheaper, this is part of the reason I'm doing an LT1 swap instead of an LSX swap. and I'm not saying give them away, but they have got to understand that not everyone can just drop $2200 on an exhaust. they could sell a whole lot of those headers if they were cheaper.

 

but still that is only 550! not 900 or 2200. That is very steep, i mean i fi had the money and didnt care sure. But i can buy headers and make my own for well under that and tuck it betters. Idk kinda lame to me and it seems as though to many people arent happy with that/this

 

the headers look great.. nice to see an auto and a 3" y pipe

the headers dont come mild becauase they are made by STAINLESS WORKS.

 

or even have a weld up kit, sell all the pipes pre-bent, all you do is weld them together

 

I know, but I'm sure they could get someone to make them in mild.

 

what type of muffler is used in the catback?

 

From the way it reads, it's just the headers and y-pipe, no muffler.

People also think that $700 for a GMMG is expensive, but they sell alot of them.

They look good Bruce, keep up the good work with the swap items.

 

the way i read it is the complete system. this looks very nice!

 

2" primaries are for either 415+ cubic inch engines, or smaller engines pushing 600 HP without turbocharging. You can't get there with an LQ4. These don't even belong on a cam and heads LS3. You'll find higher average numbers at 1.75". If you have the funds to put together an engine combo that truly needs these, then you have the funds to buy these.

 

the ideal for any LS would be 1 7/8. ditch the 1 3/4 completely.
2" would work good at less than 400 inches when heavy nitrous or high stall converters are used.

 

Indeed. These are serious pipes for serious builds for people with serious dollars. You get what you pay for and Im sure these things are TOP notch just as the original Hawks LSx swap headers are. Mind you I dont think the original LSx headers hang too low at all but I did make my own mounts so maybe they're up a little higher? Dunno but I love em thats for sure.

Maybe the next design will be a nicely tucked 1 7/8" set available as headers only?

 

If you have the skills to weld headers, you can get a set of bends and design your own no problem. If you are doing it in stainless, you're going to have to be good at TIG welding. Ive yet to see any quality stainless headers MIG'd together. But even mild, its gonna be work.

I agree that if you need 2" primaries, you are beyond saving money. The most I can see for most of the head/cam motors, like others have said, is 1-7/8". Thats what I wish I could have gotten when I did my build. My motor was built and tuned to use that size, and came with relaly nice Grotty's...but alas the 4th gen headers are useless to us. SO that was a bummer. But I probably gained a little low end by going down to the 1.75s. A good flowing y-pipe makes up for that some too.

Bruce, I see youre using v-bands...? Another plus. I was beginning to think I was the only person that thought they were a good idea. Im really glad I used them on my pipe, and wasnt sure why more people werent. Those clamps are awesome. No gaskets, easy assembly/disassembly, and they seal great. Pricey, but worth it.

All in all...if you NEED 2" primaries, 2200 for stainless headers and a y-pipe all v-band clamped together that fits well isnt that bad IMO. Not saying it'd be in my budget, but its not that bad.

J.

 

V-bands on the exhaust is one of the best ideas going. makes it so much easier to do exhaust and it seals better too.

I agree 2200 seems pretty steep for a header/ypipe combo. I was thinking more in the 1500-1700 range considering stainless steel with v bands.

A ypipe doesnt cost that much to build. On the worst day, charge 500 for that since its stainless. That leaves headers about 1000-1200 a pair. I think thats more reasonable since that is what most exotic LSx headers cost.

headers by themselves would be a smart idea since alot of guys would look to run true dual 3" dumped for race applications when using 2" primaries.

 

WOW Guys,
Lots of good points made here. The reason we have never done a cheap mild steel header is because we for years have seen cars come in out of our shop with cheap mild steel coated headers that have been sand blasted on the bottom by road debris and rust from bottom to top and are just HORRIBLE in quality, so with that being said from the beginning HAWKS has always wanted to offer something that was top notch in quality not something cheap just to make a sell. I do understand the stainless is expensive but, I have always thought if I were doing a swap to my car as an enthusiast I would want a quality set of headers for my swap , that is why we did the first sets in the 1 3/4 with 2.5 and 3in collector with a y pipe for the 2.5 in collector. The first design was designed around a AUTO AND A T56, if you have ever tried to work around a auto trans pan and the pass frame rail you know how much room you DO NOT have on the pass side. The T56 has alot more room. When we come out with the 3in collector everyone wanted a 3in y pipe and with the old crossmembers ( before the HAWKS LONGTUBE TRANS CROSS MEMBERS) there was NO ROOM with a spohn torque arm crossmember which is why we redesigned the trans crossmember and went to the BMR trac pak torque arm as this gives the MOST room for the y pipe.
As some have said before you really do not need a primary larger than a 1 3/4 unless you have a big cube high RPM motor, BUT as most men are they always want the BIGGER size on there car even when they dont need it.
Now that there are ALOT MORE large cube motors being built now days the need for a large tube header was needed.
Some have said there needs to be a 3.5 in y pipe with a large tube header and I partly agree and partly disagree the primary and y pipe size is more relevant with cubic inches AND RPM versus just cubic inches. We have built cars at the shop with 600 RWHP with a 2.5 in collector and y pipe and a 4in exhaust that made NO MORE POWER with straight headers and no y pipe , so the most important thing in my opinion is to make sure you have a supporting cat back so your cat back does not act like a cork and stop your exhaust up.
The new system will imply a 3in y pipe into a 3.5 in stainless exhaust and single in/out stainless works muffler with hidden single driver outlet that in testing is VERY deep breathing.
So I want everyone here to understand we look at you our valued customers for what you want next, we also look at what obstacles we have seen in our shop and mix the two to offer you our valued customer what we think is the best of both worlds so that when you get the parts it meets or exceeds ALL of your expectations as the end result.
As a last thought go out and price a nice set of large tube LT header for a
LS1 Camaro with a 3in stainless y pipe, now add a nice 3in stainless catback to that and then a handful of 3 and 3.5 in stainless V band assm and see what that # comes to, now you guys have all of that for a little less than you can buy it all for and it is custom fitted to your car not to mention the motor swap as well. So when you think of it that way I hope you see that we have done a great job with this new system for the complete do it yourselfer that can be completely installed with hand tools NO CUTTING OR WELDING.
I hope all of this sheds more light on the new system and I hope some of you will try it and look forward to your comments.
Thanks Sincerely,
Bruce Hawkins
www.hawksthirdgenparts.com
864-855-2694

 

have you ever considered making a shorty or mid-length header?

 

Thanks Bruce. After spending money at a shop for my exhaust (and getting the shaft) with just manifolds - I think your price is reasonable for those of us without the fab skills but with the time and money. I'm looking forward to good pics of this kit on an automatic car....I'm already thinking of next year's tax refund

 

Amen, i agree with you here. You guys did a fantastic job from the pics.

My apologies, i misread your original post. 2200 from header to exhaust tip all stainless with Vbands is much more reasonable. I was thinking header/ypipe only.

Hell i have about a 1000 dollars in the exhaust system on my 99 trans am and i used 400 buck pacesetters, mild steel y pipe, and SLP LM2 exhaust! All slip fit and clamped. A good stainless header of that size along with 3.5" catback all stainless does seem much more reasonable.

 

no market for them IMO. for what they would cost to build a set, you could have long tubes for a lil bit extra shipping(bigger box, LOLerz)

 

ya, but no ground clearence issues, no fitment issues for automatic cars, and lower cost though reduced materials cost.

 

Are you goint to just sell the headers. For those of use that run true duals. I would just like the 2" primaries and 3" collectors?

 

+1

 

Hi,
There are no plans for a shortie or mid length header at this time, Thanks for all the compliments guys I will have some final pics up soon. At this time we are not planning on headers only but that could change we will see . Pricing would more than likely be around the 1200.00 mark for just headers . LEt meknow what you guys think.
Thanks,Bruce
www.hawksthirdgenparts.com
864-855-2694

 

Hi Bruce, 1200 for the headers on their own would be very fair. I have a local shop that would do a custom set in stainless for that price exactly so you are right on as far as price. The reason I asked originally if they would be available by themselves is that I have the Spohn torque arm and crossmember, and would prefer to route my own y-pipe. I love the Spohn stuff enough to not want to junk it Thanks so much for everything you guys do, it is greatly appreciated by us all!

Taurus Fey

 

Good news fellas I did some research and it looks like the 2" primary is in no way a bad thing. There are quite a few manufacturers of 2" primary headers for 5th gen F-bodies and I've been all over those boards of late as Im putting together my LS3/L92 and dyno test back to back with 1 3/4" vs 2" primaries show no loss in bottom end! Keep in mind this is on an LS3 that has a bit more cubes than an LS1 and on these cars they were cammed up pretty good as well but still... It sure looked good to me.

Regarding price? $2200.00 for a FRONT TO BACK STAINLESS exhaust???

The price is not at all out of line especially when I consider that no single thing on my first LS1 swap took more time and effort to finish than building m exhaust and buying mandrel bent 316L stainless 90's is PRICEY as all get out and I didnt even go to the extreme of v-band clamps which for anyone who doesnt know about these they are without a doubt the most leak free way to connect piping. They are used in Steam applications in ranges of 500-5000psi hold strength so even the cheapest v-bands will be very effective and maintaining a leak free exhaust for you.

Anyways Bruce have you tried the fitment of this y-pipe with a t56?

 

I too misunderstood the pricing... Didnt read close enough. That price for the entire exhaust is awesome. I thought it was ok before...but now realizing what you are getting, its pretty friggin awesome.

 

Original quote of first page, that part flew right over my head.

1200 for headers only of that size and quality is well worth it. And I agree, 2" is not all that bad. I dont think it would kill performance on sub 400 cube head/cam motors. LSx heads move a ton of air so 2" primaries wont hurt too bad. There have been tests done with 1 7/8" headers on bolt on LS1's that gained power everywhere over 1 3/4 headers and everyone then thought 1 7/8's were too large for a bolt on stock motor.

I dont think 2" would be that bad. I'm surprised you got those massive primaries to fit in a thirdgen chassis

 

Hi,
Thanks for all the support guys, I will have more pics as soon as they are available.
Thanks,Bruce

 

i JUST bought a set of custom 1 7/8, or i would drop 1200 no problem for a set of 2" that FIT.
1200 is not bad for a stainless header that will slide in and out.

 

$2200 for an headers and exhaust is a lot. Especially when most third gens are only worth about $2200, and the LS1 / Trans combo's they are putting in them are usually around $2200. That is ridiculous.

 

The target market for these systems are not for the simple stock/bolt on LS1 swap people that pick up 2200 dollar motor/tranny combos.... These are for the guys with heavily modded heads/cam 364+ cubic inch guys that have more money into those setups than 2200. THey may have 2200 in heads/cam/intake alone, let alone the rest of the motor bottomend and trans.

 

Where you are getting GOOD LS1/trans combos for 2200? Because Ive got a stack of cash that'll go away right away.

Ive got more money into my 86 than its worth. WAY more. Dropping $2200 on a NICE set headers complete with exhaust would be nothing if I needed headers/exhaust. Especially if I couldnt build my own...the convience alone is worth some coin.

If you are dropping a $2200 dollar motor and trans combo into your car, and thats all youre doing, then these wouldnt be marketed for you...no offense. Like Orr89RocZ said, some of us have built our cars way beyond just doing the swap and dropping a few parts in. Just sayin...

Im waitin for someone to come out with a stainless dual/h-pipe kit to go with these headers..that is bolt in, or close to bolt in. Ide be all over something like that. Even if the price went up. Saves me from having to figure it out haha. I wanna drive these days, not fiddle with pieces of pipe under the car.

J.

 

True, but I still think it's a lot. I think $800 for the other longtubes is too much as well.

 

Its a lot of money...I wont argue with you there at all. But I think the price reflects the product at least. You really are gettin a nice set of parts. I know there were some fitment issues recently, but aside from that, these are sweet pieces. Stainless is just great stuff for exhaust. Like I said earlier, my donor car had nice grotyhams (sp?), but they were rusted all to heck on the bottom. And they had been coated.

I DO think that there should be a set of mild pipes available for the budget minded...but I dont see anyone stepping up for that. Even though thirdgens seem to be the #1 swap for the LS platform.

J.

 

True it is a lot of money but it is top quality stuff. I'd be angry and not have bought them if they were Flowtech crap thin gauge, mild steel, horrid fitment, poor performing pieces of junk but they are 180 degrees from that. The Stainless Works Hawks headers I have are as good a quality header as anyone can ever expect regardless of your platform. What I mean by that is lets say you bought a brand new ZO6 and wanted to put Longtubes on it and Hawks had Stainless Works build a set like the ones they do for third gens. There would be nothing but praise from the ZO6 owners too these are that good. Keep in mind too that even at $800.00 per set thats not at all out of line when looking at what new mild steel headers cost for 5th gen Camaros or C5/6 Vettes.

Back on these 2" pieces. You get what you pay for more times than not its pretty damn impossible to pay low for something great and although yes $2200.00 is steep for most third gen owners who are trying to build on a budget the stuff is primo. If I was to advise someone building a third gen on the low buck I'd advise against any kind of LSx swap at all and just build a cheap, carbed sbc. Or go buy a low buck 4th gen they're getting cheap now but they're also getting calfed out like practically every third gen that hasnt been restored or preserved is too. I dont think anyone who runs these is worried about the extra small cost because lets face it even cheap headers + catbacks cost a good penny for anything that flows even remotely clost to what these will flow I bet its within a few hundred bucks if you buy bolt on stuff.

Finally I dont think Hawks would have built them if there wasnt a market for them. They're not for everyone but they clearly are desirable for enough of us.

 

Agreed.

My observations and suggestions: A Board sponsor has started a thread to inform us of a product that they now have available. It may not be what you are looking for, but they have apparently gotten enough requests for this product to research further and spend the time and money to develop it. If it doesn't suit your needs, or if you simply think it's more money than it should be even though you're not in the market for it, then there is no need to respond to this thread.

In addition, this Board sponsor (with a good reputation helping out the 3rd gen community, by the way), has offered to talk to any member about their specific application and needs to work out what would work best for them. Rather than post negative comments here, just take them up on their offer and give them a call. If what you're doing is different from what they're currently offering, and common enough to warrant them spending their development time and money to address the market, they'll do it. It's as simple as that.

Thank you for your attention and cooperation. We now return you to our regularly scheduled best out there 3rd gen enthusiast programming.

 

Hi,
All right guys here is what we can do, we can do a GROUP PURCHASE ON THE 1 5/8 PRIMARY 3in COLLECTOR POLISHED LS SWAP HEADERS for the more budget minded customers we can do them for 550.00+ shipping if we can do a GP of 10 or more. With that being said we should be able to help all of you guys on the forum fromt he budget minded to the BIG CUBE LSX customer. I hope this helps, please let me know if this helps cover the complete customer base so that EVERYONE is happy.
Thanks,
Sincerely,
Bruce Hawkins
www.hawksthirdgenparts.com
864-855-2694

 

Good deal and good timing Im sure that'll work.



Well... My Grandpappy was a man of wisdom and used to offer up these sayings all the time. To that comment he would say;

You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can NEVER please ALL the people ALL the time.

So to the attitude of achieving the impossible I applaud your efforts.