Right now i have a 305 tbi in my 91 firebird. Its a POS. The past owner didnt do much maintainance and it has about 170k on it. I came across a 1995 LT1 out of a camaro with 150k on it for 350$(i think i can get for 300$) on craigslist guy says it came out of a running camaro.

How hard of a swap would it be going from a 305 tbi to 350 lt1?
It would bolt up and work with my tranny correct?

Is it worth 300?

 

What transmission are u running? is everything included like wiring and such?

 

I have an 4 speed auto.(not sure of the name) I am not sure what is all included But i no the ECU is not included

 

In this case, I'd say it's not worth it. Unless you have a bunch of experience with LT1's and TH700's (that's what your transmission is), this will be an exercise in frustration.

"Most" LT1's for sale include the accessories, harness, and computer (called "PCM" in 4th gens). In fact, a good many include the transmission, even. Without everything you need, attempting the swap will nickle and dime you to death.

Also, read the LT1 swap sticky in the top section of this forum. It pretty well describes what is required. Bolting it in isn't that difficult, but the wiring can frustrate the inexperienced or unmotivated.

 

My dad has experience he knows what he is doing im not worried to much on how hard it will be as far as getting it to work with the tranny and i have read through the stickies and they give the wiring but they arent clear on like if a 93 and 95 lt1 are the same because most of the stickied info is stated for the 93 and i understand there probably isnt many differences then a 95 but if there are any it could lead to problems. As far as the PCM im sure i could find one off of ebay. My budget is more suitable for nickle and diming than buying everything at once which is why i am asking.
Is it a fair deal? I know I can get it to work because my dad is great and i have already talked to him he was worried about the computer not being with it but he isnt worried about anything else really.

 

93 and 95 use different Computers and wiring.
93 would be your best bet to use. It is a MAP system and the tranny will work fine with it.

 

My dad said the check engine light would be on because the pcm for the 95 lt1 controls the tranny also is there any truth in this?

 

I'd say it's worth the asking price, because the engine doesn't have to be a '93 to use a '93 computer and chip. And that's a lot cheaper than changing transmissions. with the '95 computer, if it was for a manual trans, then you could use it with your 700R-4, you just need to wire up the VSS, then call BTO for their bracket to connect the throttle valve cable. Which needs to be from a TPI car, not your TBI version.
This stuff doesn't add up to very much. Your big expense will be replacing the LO3 exhaust stuff with L98 stuff to support the LT1.
You can keep your lame 2.73:1 axle. Changing that can wait a while if need be.
The LT1 is the only production version of the SBC that'll happily pull 1450 rpm at 65 mph, yet still pull strongly to 6200 rpm. It's a lot of fun, even stock.

 

True, with a '93 PCM, harness, throttle body, etc., the TH700 will work.

You might want to make sure you can get that stuff before committing to the engine. Of course, if you get the engine and then can't find the PCM stuff, you could resell the engine.

 

I'll go against the grain and say to do it the other way. Buy the $20 '95 VSS reluctor, $75 TCI lock-up kit, $5 relay, and a used '95 VSS instead and read up on this website on how to get that 700r4 going using the 95 computer. Might take a little more time, maybe a little bit more money at first, and might be a little more difficult but in the long run its probably best. The best stock LT1 pcm is the '95 because you can get slightly more HP out of it in a tune, has mass air flow sensor for a little better mileage, and it uses flash memory. Also be able to easily upgrade to a 4l60e down the road if you ever needed to.

As far as trouble codes, either way you're going to have them. For VATS, a/c, traction control, etc, going to need to buy a tune to program them out. Or just never hook up a service engine soon light which I wouldn't recommend.

 

Firebat is over complicating it. For one thing, the '95s never actually received traction control unless it was a Corvette. The '95 F-cars were supposed to, but didn't. IDK about the Impala SS. If your 700R-4 is a '90-up, the vSs from that is all you need if the '95 Computer is for a manual trans. Then just use the BTO bracket, the L98 cable, a lockup kit, and it's good.

 

True, I think I got ABS mixed up with traction control. I don't know if ABS will throw a code for an engine swap, doubt it. And I'm sure there is more than one way to skin a cat just like when it comes to getting that 700r4 working.

 

Is it worth it? Yes in the end,im almost done with my swap and im thrilled with how much more power it had over my 305 TPI and ive only driven it in the driveway.
It can be frustrating at times getting it all together but its important to take your time and do it right,and things will go much smoother.

 

Ok well the guy talked to me and said it doesnt include the pcm,harness,or headers. Is it still worth it? Since this is the case would it be better to buy a 93 harness then

 

My dad really is influencing me to go with a 350 tbi, but i still think the 300 for an lt1 is a steal. He says it would take a wiring harness,exhaust,motor mounts,and a fuel pump. Personally I would much rather have the lt1 especially for the price it is at i could probably sell it for more if it came down to it..

 

it's a good price even if you only got the block, heads, timing cover, water pump and opti-spark.
Mounting it is exactly like mounting a 305.
A harness will be a big expense if you just buy one from Painless Wiring, but it's the easiest option.
A good exhaust for an LT1 is really no different than a good exhaust for a TBI 350. It's the exact same headers, exact same cat-back.
Your dad just wants to keep your power down. All fathers want to protect their sons from the evils of horsepower.

 

I think the harness is his main concern honestly. However maybe ur right i think he is worried my firechicken will be faster than his challenger(he is a mopar guy)

 

To be honest, I don't know why ANYBODY would do an LT1 swap. I'm not trying to start a fight or offend anybody, but think about it realistically. The LT1 was only around for a couple years before it was replaced by the LS1. Very few Gen 1 parts work with it, and no Gen III parts work with it.

What limited advantages it has over a GEN 1 motor can quickly be overcome with aftermarket GEN 1 parts. GEN 1 motors are everywhere, they're cheap, and the aftermarket is enormous and affordable. LT1s have a very limited aftermarket, things are generally more expensive, and although the performance of a stock LT1 exceeds the performance of a stock Gen 1, unless you're getting the motor & trans for virtually nothing, in the long run you're still going to dump more money into the LT1.

On the other side of the coin, if you're willing to go through the work of putting a different generation motor into your car, a 5.3 can be bought VERY cheaply, and is a better motor than an LT1 in every way, and like the Gen 1 motor, the 5.3 can be cheaply modded to far outperform the LT1.

Just my

 

Im pretty sure i wont be going with the lt1 because the harness isnt included and they cost too much. But when u say gen 1 are u referring to a carb motor because i am not at all interested in carburetors. I am only looking for around 300 horses 300+torque so i probably wont be using much aftermarket at all so i dont understand how the lt1 would be more expensive considering i cant get even a 350 tbi for as cheap as the lt1

 

You can go carb on the LT1 relatively cheaply, GMPP does offer an intake manifold.
This LT1 for $300, well, consider that you can't put these heads on a pre-LT1, they're aluminum, they flow like the Vortec heads, they out-flow the L98 heads, And you can't get Vortec heads in aluminum. fast burns dont count.
And anyway, you're not just getting $600+ worth of heads, you're getting a whole 350, with roller lifters, 1-piece rear main seal, and so on.
A Painless Harness might be too much $ for your budget, but there are cheaper options. Hawks will probably sell you a used stock harness for around $200, and getting the computer is about another $90, depending on source, those 2 items combined are cheaper than the carbureted intake.
But if you're one to give up over a perceived challenge, then this isn't for you.

 

So you are saying get it. Well my 2 options are a 350 tbi/vortec or a lt1. both which are going to need new exhaust according to my research. Both which will need a new ecm/pcm. Only difference that i see is the whole wiring harness situation.I can not get ahold of a vortec cheaper than this lt1 so thats why i see this as an opportunity. but What will ALL be required for this setup(STOCK)?

 

You can mix and match anything to do with a LT1 to make it work in your car. You can get an Fbody harness for ease of wiring, or use a caprice, impala, or roadmaster harness to save money and have a more stand alone system. With a 94+ LT1 pcm and harness, you can program the computer yourself with some software and hardware, of which means you can change a cam on the weekend, tune the car sunday afternoon, and turn around and still drive to work on monday utilizing the full extent of the performance parts you use. I went LT1 because of how easy it is to get ahold of a block if i need to rebuild one while I have one already in my car (of which i've already done), the only thing that gets rediculously expensive is if you are stuck on stupid to use a 6 speed manual tranny. I was and that is 60% of my overall cost in this project.

As far as not coming with a harness and ecu and headers, i would see if you could get a harness and computer from a junk yard, or find a u-pull-it yard nearby and you can get the parts for cheap. I was in a pull it yard near me, and they had a LT1 roadmaster wagon, of which i could of had the computer and harness for less than $75. As far as the headers, you'll have to change those to 3rd gen specific aftermarket anyways.

If you break it down, you can get an LT1 in your car for less than $2000, probably less than $1000 in your case, and probably and automatic LSx for $3000 or so. If you've got the money, go big or go home, if you don't, go LTx and don't look back. I like LTx because maintenance down the road will be easier because i don't have 8 coils, and dealing with OBD2 inspections, i can use OBD1 and i can tune, and parts are either used from older cars, or still relatively cheap to find. And aftermarket support is out there, and it's probably as expensive as LSx parts, but everyone will say why put this much money into an LTx when putting the same amount into an LSx will get you more...yes...but this same arguement is why put money into a 305 when u can put it in a 350...this arguement will go on forever if you catch my drift, so do the research, and see what you want to go with. After putting on the A/C delete pulley and wiring in the harness, the rest is simple.

As far as using your automatic transmission, you will need headers, a 93 LT1 throttle bracket and tv cable, and some small modifications to the tranny's vss of which i believe have been mentioned above.

 

Taking another look at this, I think the biggest issue here is the miles not what kind of engine it is. I don't know if its worth it to spend time/money to swap in any engine with 150,000+ miles.

 

we would for the most part be rebuilding it

 

I love the lt1 I put in my 85. Way better than the 305 tpi that I had before. It's really easy to do once you read the stickies and figure out the wiring. Paid $500 for mine but it came with the wiring and computer. I went with a lt1 because my daily driver is a 95 Trans am.

 

IMO. If you do the math, 300 engine, wire haness and pcm up to 200, new water pump up to 300. now the rebuild.Now you can get rebuild kits I am sure you wont put in an engine with 150,00 plus without a full rebuild. New pistons and rings up to 200 and that depends on size (does the block need to be punched?) cam,rod,main bearings 100 or so. And that is if you do it piece by piece you are looking at spending some cash. So lets just say 1200, and lets not forget, what if a hard part is to far gone? like the crank, rods, main caps, and worst case the block. And you will not know untill a shop goes thru it.In a worst case you could be looking at up to $2000. I would say that for the money you COULD end up spending you can go to an engine dealer in the city you are from, and get a completely rebuilt 350 for around 700 dollars or so. Then with the savings you could get an aftermarket multi-port fuel inj system or TBI system, They can be had from summit, jegs all the speed parts places.Or just re-use the one you have on the car now, if it has it.This way you wont have to deal with wire and pcm mods, as well as re-use the transmission you have now without doing any mods. you could also cam the engine with what ever cam will be best for what you want to do with the car(daily driver, hot street hod)You can get 300 horse from a 350 without going for the LT1, It has been done for many years long before the LT1 was ever built. It all comes down to what do you want to spend
and how long do you want the car down while you do the swap.

 

If it was a carbureted, non-roller engine, you might have a point. All this thing is likely to need is valve seals. A timing set would be wise, and may as well do a new oil pump, but these injected engines just don't wear the bores like older engines, and with the roller lifters, the cam and lifters don't wear. With no wear happening, it's not circulating metal through the engine, and it doesn't hurt the bearings. I've run a bunch of these past the 200,000 mile mark, with speed mods, without issue.

 

I agree. However he is taking a chance if the engine is not gone thru. While it is true that you can get 200,000 from any engine there are things you just cant plan for. Like a hair line crack in a rod, or in the heads for that matter. Plus just because you may know the guy you are getting the engine from does not mean it was maintained right. Oil changes as well as regular tune up's can and does make a difference in how long it will last. I am not going to say that the seller is going to lie to him, but keep in mind he does want to get rid of it. And we already know that it has 150,000 plus miles on it. It would be un-wise to not get a total rebuild on it, Then 200,000 miles could be had without woundering if it is going to last. Spend the money now or spend it later or,better safe than sorry.

 

LT1s are cheap and easy to swap because so much can be reused from the 3rd gen

Who cares if it may poop out a few years down the road, just grab another for a few hundred and keep on stroking. The out-of-the-box performance, ease of installation, low cost, excellent fuel economy and availability makes the LT platform a good choice for a street car or DD. The down side is that it is not as accepting to mods are the GEN III/IV engines are. So if you're like most hotrodders and shooting for mild mods like a cam, exhaust, intake porting its a great engine. If you want serious potential/power, go LSx

Ive got a LTx swap harness FS currently if you dont want to do any wiring

 

I dont want to argue this good sense, but Lt1s have no history of failing rods or cracking heads. If it turns over, put it together just enough to do a compression test and a leakdown test. Really don't even need the manifolds for that. If it passes, do the pump, chain and seals, build it, install it, fire it up.

 

Plus if your engine does have issues later on, you can swap your aftermarket cam and stuff to the next engine.

 

I see the point's many are making. I guess I tend to think in practical terms.
My point is, Spend the money now, rebuild it now before it is installed into the car. And I mean a full on rebuild. Some can say "so what if it goes out just get another one" Well not everybody can be so cavalier in spending money like that.How many 400 dollar engines do you have to buy before you get sick of it? Now just because there is no history in the kinds of failure I am tring to help this man avoid does not mean it cant happen. Tell me, Would most people want to have to change or re-build an engine every few years if they didnt have too? I would bet NO WAY. That in the end, it can in some cases, take the fun right out of having a street/hot rod. Thats all I am tring to get across. In the end I just dont care, I am just tring to give a different perspective from someone that cant afford to rebuild or replace an engine as some here would seem to think that it is.
I just tend to think long term thats all. Hell, If I could get my hands on a low milage,running LT1 with the complete haress and PCM for under 1000, I might just do it myself, But for 750 dollars I am getting a brand new rebuilt 350 long block, all new parts. This is an engine that could last me upwards of 10 years. Then because I dont have to worry about it, I can go after and build the BIG power, all while I drive the car now. Thats all I am saying.

 

My point was, they are so cheap and common, its cheaper to swap rather than overhaul

For example, the last TWO I pulled were $150 and $200 respectively with a 30 day warranty. Thats everything, ready to drop in (harness mods of course). When they blown, like the last one did (cracked block and bent #5 exhaust valve) I yanked it and moved right on to the next one. You cant even buy the gasket kit for that cheap, let along block/head machine work

Besides, pulling the engine from a hotrod every few years isnt a rare thing

 

Everyone here is making good points but it's your call and your budget. If you grab the LT1 and drop it in I'll almost promise you it'll be fine and you can drive it reliably for quite a while. The bottom end of an LT1 is built stronger from the factory than the older blocks, and they don't wear much even at those miles. If you just need the car to run, I'd just swap it in and plan to rebuild in the future if you wanted. If you're wanting to build it as a high output performance engine, then rebuild it with quality parts and don't cut corners. They're great engines to use, I love them. You can actually get great mpg out of them too. I was actually planning on building a 383 LT4 before I found my 400 block for such a good price. It's worth $300 for what you'll get in my opinion.

 

I have no regrets w/ swapping in the LT1. Much better than the stock 305 TBI that was in there.

 

Are you kidding me? that cheap? If they are as strong as you and others say, and I dont doubt you guys at all, why then would someone take it out and in some cases put in a different engine? There is a guy in dallas who has one kinda cheap, And the last time I went that route the motor locked up in under 4 months. Also, I have looked here on the tech boards and I am not seeing this, so I will ask here. Does the 700r4 bolt right up to the LT1 without any mods? And in order to make the LT1 run, do you have to get the entire wire harness for the donor car? I know you have to get the PCM/ECM. Also what kind of mods are needed to have a working stosk tach? As I said I have looked and I have seen the rebuild of a stock 3rd gem harness, If I were to change the engine, It would have to be a direct drop in w/ harness and computer.

 

You need an a/c delete pulley, and thats about it. The 700 will bolt up, you will need a '93 throttle body and bracket to hook up the tv cable, and you can either use a '93 harness and ecm and not look back, or go 94+ and just retune out the tranny to be manual, and do some mods to get the converter to lock up automatically and change the tail shaft to a 4th gen to get all the vss and parts you need back there.

Pocket would be able to get you a plug and play harness for cheap.

 

Best part of the LT1 is that caprice,Roadmaster,impala and fleetwoods are all over the junkyards from this clunker program so i can go in and find virtually anything i need for it,i cant tell you how many times ive gone and stripped pieces off of them.

 

I need to retune the 700r4 tranny anyway. The PO gutted the cars wiring and it took me about 3 weeks to get everything working so it does shift wierd from 1st to 2nd, unless I stomp the pedal then it is fine, After that it shifts normal. There is no ecm in the car now because they pulled it out. I can do the mods to the harness to make it work I just dont want to. I would want the plug and play set up. I cant have this car down for long at all. It is my DD and thats all I have. I know I can do the change out in a day engine out engine in. I see 3 days tops with the install of the harness.
What I may do is go with the complete rebuilt 350 and then look into an LT1. I would like to do it. But I just cant right now, In practical terms I cant right now. A year or so from now A BIG FAT HELL YEAH.

 

Oh I know. For me it is a time thing. I just dont have time for a gold digging hunt no matter how bad I want to. Also like many people I just cant afford it right now. Hell if you have the money and time, F'N go for it. I will it's just I cant do it right now.

 

yea, but that destroyed a lot of blocks and heads, which sucks, but you're right, sensors and intakes are there for the picking.

I've already got my setup ready, i've got a motor going in my car at the moment that i've done a mild rebuild to, and i've got a '94 block setup that i'll be rebuilding probably this winter, of which i'll have all ready for a good long 10 year or more usage. As far as rebuilding...it's not that much more expensive than a Gen I block, only real difference is the timing cover set, and the water pump isn't $300, I just got a brand new one with a lifetime warranty for $150, so don't go back to the place that you saw one for $300. Parts aren't that much more overall, you might spend an extra $300-$500 depending on the quality of parts you look at, but overall the rebuild kits and the 383 stroker kits are all the same, and as mentioned before, you can take most of the mods from a Gen I block and put it into your Gen II LT1, like cams and rotating assemblies, you can get a plentiful amount of stock aluminum LT1 heads, of which you can port to the point they flow similar to the LT4, and intakes are again more than plentiful with over 500,000 out there. It's a lot easier to get ahold of than a complete TPI system, looks damn near as sexy, and will be cheaper overall to get a 350 under your hood with modest starting point in HP.

Aftermarket isn't the best because they damn near perfected the upper half, to the point you can port and polish a LT4 intake and have the best flowing intake, buy a set of high flowing heads, throw a stroker kit in the bottom and upgrade the valvetrain and you will have a rediculously strong and reliable motor. Yes, LS1's upgrade to 8 individual coil packs helps pack the extra HP numbers, but that modification can be done to the LT1 if you are serious about your HP getting up into the 500-600 without spraying or boosting.

 

You can get the LT1 to the point it will drop in with your 700, and like i said there are minor things to change on the 700 to make it work like it should from factory, but otherwise, Pocket can get you a plug and play harness for your car to make putting a harness in to less than an hour after everything else is in the car. You will have to talk to him on if you need to supply or get a PCM/ECM to go with the harness, I forget if he has any. The people here will get you where you need to be, after all, i wasn't ready to do something like this, and with the support of a friend and all the help i've gotten on this website, and the help Pocket is willing to do with wiring and helping you wire you're own, this site has been invaluable.

Also forgot, you will need to have a higher pressure fuel pump, like a TPI fuel pump, or the Walbro 255 fuel pump has been hit or miss, i went with a different company and i would probably recommend them just because of their simple kit and how helpful they are. Do all the research, print everything out, and you will be ready by the time you have the money, to grab an LT1 for cheap and go for it. You won't turn back from multi-port, and the only people who do are the ones wanting to make rediculous HP, so you will like multi-port fuel injection.

 

Use a TPI pump from a common parts store like autozone. Get the one with a lifetime warranty and never look back

PM me about a harness. I can do just about anything you want. If you're really looking for some numbers, I can modify the harness to accept the EFIConnection LSx PCM with 8 individual coil packs kit

I use this JY for the cheap LT1s and pretty much anything else I can find http://www.pullapart.com/

B-body or F-body LT1s seem almost identical in performance and acceptance of mods in swaps. Not really worth the extra time to find a specific alum headed F-body engine. I would highly recommend using some other trans besides the 700R4. 4L60E's are common and dont have to come from a LT1 car to work. Trucks, vans, RWD cars etc commonly came with them. You will need an external vacuum switch to enable lockup to use the 700R4, check out BTO for that. 93 TB can be skipped with a TV cable stud kit for LT1 TBs. Your choice, if you're good at fabrication, you may be able to weld a new stud on a bracket, but the dimension are critical

 

When I get to do it, I wont be looking for a specific alum headed F-body engine. A cast head will be just as good, A well put together engine souldnt notice the difference. I have seen lots of swap kits for a 4l60e from a 700r4, not super expensive and thats good. Believe me I want to do it, But what orig poster asked was what I was replying to.And I gave a honest answer that is just IMO thing. An engine with 150,000 plus miles is a long shot on any motor. As I said does he know for a fact that it was maintained right? If so go for it. If he is not sure find another one.
As for me, doing a swap out in no big deal, I just cant afford it at this time. Plus I would like to have another car to get around in, nothing sucks more than needing a part and dont have another ride to get to it. LOL.
Come on we have been there before at one time or another.
When I am ready to do this, I will hit you up for any harness info I know I am going to need. Thanks for all the info.
Bill.