To follow the current LS1/T56 in Berlinetta #2, I have picked up a 2003 LQ4/4L80E for the '57, and 2000 LS1/4L60E for Berlinetta #1. The intent for the '57 was to better the 396 performance somewhat (no need to go crazy), improve street drive-ability and economy, and get overdrive and lock-up converter capability for the highway. For Berlinetta #1, be able to run it in a class currently being run by the '57 while the '57 gets its transplant and other fixes (primarily underbody rust).

Berlinetta #1 with the current ZZ4 clone/LG4 induction/ignition/2500 stall/3.23 gears runs low-14's. I need to get that below 13.8 in the heat of summer to run the aforementioned class while the '57 is down. Based on the demonstrated performance of the LS1/T56 to date (13.5's), I'm starting to rethink the more radical plans I had for the LS1/4L60E (cam, heads, gears, etc.). What I'm thinking now is LS6 intake (have), shaved 317 heads with valve spring upgrade (have the heads, haven't had them shaved yet, have L92 take-out springs), 3000 stall (have), 3.42 gears, and perhaps minor tune tweaking should get me there with room to spare even with the stock 2000 cam while maintaining nice DD manners.

For the '57, which currently runs 13.0's/12.9's at our altitude, I have L92 heads & L76 intake, need 90mm TB, was planning on 4" stroker crank & pistons, some sort of custom cam, 4000 stall, current 4.11 gears, hadn't decided between gasoline or continuing with E85. I want to stay in the NHRA Sportsman ET range of 12.00 at sea level (has run 12.1's at sea level with the 396) and 12.75 at altitude. I also run a local class that requires 12.75 or quicker, a 50 shot currently gets me there. Based again on the performance of the LS1/T56, I'm thinking I don't really need the stroker, that heads/cam/tune should get the job done (http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ads/index.html). I'll go ahead and do forged flat top pistons if I go back to gasoline, or pop-top pistons for about 12.5:1 SCR if I stay with E85, and do a little spray (if necessary) if I want to go quicker than 12.75.

See anything out of kilter with either of these approaches?

 

Well, either my thinking is reasonable, or I'm so off my rocker that nobody thought it worth their time to respond. . .

 

Sounds reasonable to me, given your objectives. 3.42 gears in Berlinetta #1 will compliment the 4L60E assuming it's geared the same as a TH700-R4, based on my experience.

Only things I'd do differently would be upgrading the cam, oil pump, and timing chain.

 

For the LS1/4L60E, I've given the cam a lot of thought. My conclusion is the 2000 LS1 cam should be fine with the 317 heads and LS6 intake for what I have in mind. I may have 2nd thoughts after the first 1320 pass, but for now, the 104 MPH performance of Berlinetta #2 (faster than the '57 does the quarter) gives me reason for optimism.

I didn't mention the oil pump, but I do plan on upgrading it. Need to decide which one I'm going to go with. I didn't do that with the LS1/T56 swap, so far oil pressure has been very good.

Oh, the 3.42 gears & Torsen posi are on their way now.

 

Dipping into the TGO info well again:

How much should I have the 317's shaved? I haven't pulled the 853 heads yet to do a comparison. Wasn't planning on disassembling it until the 317's were ready to go back on.

Oh, and while I'm at it: What head gaskets?

 

Anywhere from a cleanup to .040 is typical amounts. Then swapping to a cometic head gasket @ .040 instead of factory stock .054 will also get you more compression.

 

The only .040" Cometic I see on summitracing.com is 4.130" bore. Is that a problem?

($79.95 each - am I seeing that right??? )

 

I paid $140 for a pair of them through texas speed and performance with a 4.030 bore for my 6.0L


Yes they are pricey but it's a MLS gasket, this isn't a stock graphite SBC head gasket here. Summit doesn't stock any of those cometics, but texas speed does. They were more than helpful on the phone which my questions and the order was shipped promptly. Otherwise it's a 10 day wait for most shops to order and receive them from cometic directly then ship to you.

 

I'll try giving them a call in the morning, then. Thanks.

 

The head gaskets on my 2003 LQ4 were MLS.

 

I just found this thread. I'm too A.D.D. to get the first post in one reading, but if you're not happy with what you've proposed, I'll be happy to spec you a custom cam for any / all of these.

 

just what I was saying...look at how much "stock" head gaskets sell for and the $140 for the pair doesn't seem so bad for a better gasket. The days of $45 complete gasket kits for sbc type motors are long gone for the new batch of engines. Heck I just paid $52 for an oil pan gasket....these motors aren't cheap.

 

Head gaskets aren't so bad. Stock L92 versions are under $40 each. Same goes for stock LQ4 versions. Much better than paying for Fel-Pro, or even worse, Cometic.

 

Sure. Pick on the LQ4/4L80E combo with flat tops, L92 heads, L76 intake. I don't have cam, valves or springs.

 

If the '57 is gonna get much street driving, I'd suggest COMP's 54-457-11, but it is a conservative choice. It'll give killer midrange torque, but it won't like much nitrous and may not run the number.
Doing the stroker allows a wilder cam, but the cost is unreasonable.
If it's primarily strip, and running the number is important, then my problem is that COMP has not yet released lobe numbers for the newer LSR lobes. I know what to use, but there's no way to order it.

 

texas speed has some killer ls3 cam combos out presently that run great. Basically same heads as your L92s and you just have less compression. I'd talk it over with them.

 

yeah, know what ya mean. had to get an oil pan and timing cover gasket and it got pretty close to triple digits. then i remember getting a complete felpro 350 gasket set for another motor i had for under $50.

 

COMP has released the info on their latest lobes for the LSx, so I can spec serious cams.
For a 364 incher with L92/LS3 heads, to run 11s, with use of Nitrous, and in a no-smog-test '57,
I'm suggesting the 13018 intake lobe, the 13021 exhaust lobe, a 115 lobe sep, ground 4 degrees advanced, and the 1-2 upshift at 7200.
LS7 lifters should serve, but 26918s aren't good enough.

 

Okay, back again. Thanks for the cam info. I'll write that down.

The '57 is off the track, spun rod bearing in the engine and cracked transmission bell housing. So, it won't get any more attention for awhile (except perhaps pulling parts to sell off).

Going back to Berlinetta #1: To refresh, 2000 LS1/4L60E, have LS6 intake & 28 lb injectors, 3000 stall converter (can be restalled if necessary), shaved 317 heads w/L92 springs. Will do oil pump upgrade. Intent is driver with weekend track duty. Have 3.23 gears, can/will do either 3.42 or 3.73 (the rear is coming out anyway because the posi is shot). I would be willing to sacrifice highway manners to get 13.80 ETs at 5800' elevation on a hot day with a head wind (shouldn't be a problem, the ZZ4 will do 14.3's with 3.23 gears and less stall).

Cam - Stick with the stock 2000 piece, or do the VooDoo Thumper here? Springs coil bind at .570" Could change them if necessary.

Exhaust: The engine/trans came from a car with headers, and 4th gen headers don't fit 3rd gen cars. And the original manifolds weren't available. So, I'm starting with nothing. If the choices are:
- Find a set of LS1 f-body exhaust manifolds, port them, then extrude hone them (perhaps skip the extrude hone for a mild build);
- Buy a set of $400 ceramic coated 1-3/4" shorties with 3" collector;
- Buy twice-as-expensive long tubes - auto tranny clearance with what's available isn't encouraging.
- ???

The thought is to start taking the ZZ4/TH700 out next week, start selling off parts, start buying parts to get the new stuff in. I do need to get the PCM programmed to eliminate the usual stuff and get tires/gears set. Otherwise, I was going to stick with a pretty much stock tune for now. Would be nice if it was running by the end of August (pipe dream, perhaps).

 

I wish to comment that below 3000 rpm, the ZZ4 far out-torques the LS1, assuming the ZZ4 tune is close to perfect.
You already have the stock '00 cam, so use that until something better fits the budget, but the baby VooDoo should be worth no less than 3/10 sec, with no penalty beyond the cost to buy and install.
Either cam can do a 3.42 or 3.73 gear. The mpg of a stock-computered LS1 or LS6 with 4L60E and 3.73 should equal that of a carb'd ZZ4 with 700R-4 and 3.42:1
What headers or manifolds are on the Camaro you just did the 9" to? Put those on the other, and put Hawks 1.75" long tubes on the one with the 9", maybe?
Stock exhaust manifolds are proven good to 410 rwhp on an LS1 with LS6 heads and intake, 218/230-115+4, 595/600 cam, and T56/12-bolt, synthetic lubes.
I'll sell you your old set of '00 SS exhaust manifolds back, virgin or ported and polished, if you also pay shipping. Or I could just do one hole, leave the other 7 for you. Dumb, but I'm deeply hurting for $.

 

The LS1/T56 Camaro has coated Hawks 1-3/4" primary with 2-1/2" collector long tubes. Up 'til now, it was 2-1/2" to a Magnaflow spun cat each side to an "H" pipe to dumps at the axle. It's getting the rest of the exhaust now.

The ZZ4/TH700 has an '86 LG4 carb and 3.23 gears. The LS1/T56 feels as torquey in 2nd gear below 2000 as the ZZ4 does in first gear. Can't vouch for a perfect tune on either, but the computer is handling the ZZ4 until the secondaries open.

You can be sure of the synthetic lubes part.

I suppose I have a mental block regarding cast iron manifolds.

 

Hardly fair to compare driving feel between a stick and an automatic. I still think your re-stalled converter has a lame StallTorqueRatio, as Yank describes it. If you want to read about that, www.converter.cc They've split the info up, it's half where it should be, and half in another page/link, and it only makes perfect sense after you read all of it.

 

Fair enough. I'm really looking forward to having both cars LS1, though.
Probably true. It is a stock diameter, and should probably be a smaller converter for the stall. It was next on my list for upgrading when the decision was made to go LS1/4L60E instead.

 

Youll need springs with a new cam. Not any real easy way out of that. The stock springs are barely enough for the stock cam

Cheaper way to headers is to buy a used set of SBC LTs and modify them to LSx port spacing using the LSx flange and moving 2 primaries per side. Modifying a set of 2210's should be the easiest way to get 1.75" primaries for under $500. Since you're modding the headers you can set the clearance for the trans yourself to be tight or loose

Your august timetable should be enough. You've got one swap under your belt, the second should be easier since you know the basics of what to expect

 

I was thinking the Voodoo for the 5.7L/T56/1.75" LTs car. For a 6.0L/60E/ported EMs car, I'd custom-order a 3708/3712-114+4 and it definitely needs '02-up LS6 springs. Power should peak by 5600, so you could hold first to as much as 6200, second probably to 6000.
Those Hooker 1.75" LTs are so costly you're better off with Hawks.

 

I sold off the 2210's a few months back. They were originally purchased by another member for an LSx swap, I picked them up for the ZZ4 upgrades in trade for one of the LQ4's.

Then the LS1/4L60E deal came up, and I started selling off the ZZ4 upgrade stuff. The 2210's were the first thing to go. With my level of fabrication skill and equipment, modifying 2210's for an LS1 alone would probably take me until the end of August.

 

Just hold off until someone starts parting out their car and pick up the Hawks headers for a discounted price. If you have other areas that need attention that's what I would do. Headers are easy to put on, focus on the more difficult things and when the right deal pops up jump on it.

 

Yeah, this guy will never get his asking price so he may part it out

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fire...ls1-4l60e.html

 

five7. two quick snipits from my experience. take it or leave it.

the hawks headers had neglagable clearance issues with my old 4l60e. i had to tweak the shifter cable bracket in towards the pan rail. that's IT! now with the powerglide i had to take the o2 sensor bung completely off and had to patch the hole. if i was still injected i would have had to relocate the bung further down the exhaust. i'm now carbed so it was a non issue. the passengers side had zero fitment issues on either transmission.

my cometic gaskets were pricey, but they really showed their awesomness when i hit them with some carb cleaner and put them back on the motor after using them once already. that was super cool. zero leaks out of them, internal or external. i have a set of cometics that are factory 5.7 bore size if anyone is looking for a set. they are NOT used. i took one out of the package, sprayed it with copper gasket sealer and laid it on my 4.030" bore motor and realized it was the wrong size. the other gasket is still in the package. the one that's been coated can easily be cleaned and recoated with fresh copper sealer. i'd take $100shipped for the pair.

 

Latest Super Chevy magazine had a header comparison on a new Camaro LS3. BBK 1-3/4" shorties showed a 7 HP increase (after CAI install - no test w/headers & w/o CAI), while 1-3/4" LT's showed another 23 HP increase over the shorties. I guess that pretty much shows the advantage of LT's. Of course, they didn't show ported manifolds, either (no advertising $'s in that. . .).

 

Long tubes will always have a midrange torque advantage over shorties or ported manifolds, just because of the scavenging. But that same scavenging can create problems with your HC emissions, as it sucks unburnt fuel through during valve overlap at the end of the exhaust stroke. But overlap is why scavenging works. It's a fine line.
I maintain that the shorties would show much less benefit if compared against ported manifolds. Especially considering the difference in cost.
BTW, isn't Colorado the current state of your plans?

 

Two things about Colorado:

1) When I had Berlinetta #1 tested, they scanned the VIN and tested it as an '82 V6, even though it was obviously a V8 and had all of the '86 V8 emissions data under the hood.

2) Cars that were 25 years or older were eligible for 5-year "collector plates". As long as the plates are renewed before they expire, you don't need to go through emissions inspection or testing. Note the past tense in the first of the two preceding sentences - as of last October, only 1975 model year and older cars are eligible for the collector plates, but if you were already issued such plates on your '76-newer but 25-year-old or older car, you are "grandfathered" into the program. Both my Camaros have the 5-year plates (and they will not be allowed to expire...).

I have no doubt the LS1's would pass the '82 emissions requirements. If they wised up and tested/inspected them as '00, then I'd most likely have some work to do.

 

As long as you keep your cams tamer than a 220/220-112 or a 224/224-114, then the headers won't hurt your emissions anyway.

 

Riddle me this: When will manifolds make more mid-range torque than long tube headers?

 

Probably when the LT primary diameter gets bigger than 1-5/8".

 

I had a chat with my tuner about the subject. He did quite a few LS1 4th gens and knew quite well they began losing in the mid range with 1 7/8" primaries and larger

 

Oh. Well, then, 1-3/4" primary LT's should be just fine.