I found a solution for using 3rd gen pedals and the LS1 master cylinder without having to hack up a set of perfectly usable (think: sell-able) 4th gen pedals.

The common solution that I found on this site was to cut off the peg from the 4th gen clutch pedal and weld it onto the 3rd gen pedal. I just dropped $100 on a set of 3rd gen pedals, so I was trying to find a remedy that would allow me to sell the 4th gen pedals and get my money back.

So here's what I came up with. I went to my local hardware store with clutch pedal in hand, and found a 3/8" diameter "Clevis pin". This is the correct diameter of the peg that is on the 4th gen pedal, and the Clevis pin has a hole at the end of it so you can put a hitch clip in it.



And the hitch clip






So all you need to do now is drill out the hole on the 3rd gen pedal where the new peg needs to go, measure how long the Clevis pin needs to be to put the master cylinder rod at the right location, and weld it in place.




I should have this completed by the end of the weekend. I'll post actual photos of how it turns out when I'm done. I hope this helps you guys out, I really got excited knowing that I can sell these 4th gen pedals and not have to hack them up!

cool man. If its really the same diameter, this rocks! heh

Good solution. I never thought twice about hacking up the 4th gen pedals...since they came with my swap car and I didnt care to resell them.

I think 3/8 is right...but when you change the length, I would account for a washer to go between the clevis pin and the rod end. It will keep things from binding.

Also might want to put a washer or two between the pedal and the rod end. Thats what the thick part at the base of the pin takes care of. Keeps the rod end off the pedal and keeps things from binding. Also gives some support around the base of the pin.

When you put the pin into the pedal, Ide be tempted to let some poke out the back, vs. having it recessed like the 4th gen pin is. Just because there is less support on the other side without that extra metal. Depends how long the pin is when you start.

Good luck and let us know how it works out!

J.

This is information that makes the swap easier for everyone else. Thanks for posting!

Justin,

Ya I'm planning on using a few washers to get rid of any unwanted binding. I'm also gonna let the pin stick out the back just a little and then weld it. The pin I bought is 3" long so I'm good there.

This is a great idea..... I'd love to swap in a set of 3rd gen pedals instead of the 4th gen setup I'm using now......

thanks!

Well, that is how much my extra third gen pedals are worth then?

Excellent!

I'd say yes. My 4th gen pedals were free and I paid $100 for the 3rd gen ones. I should be able to come out ahead or even to where I didn't actually pay anything for the pedals.

Well, i have several parts and i think i might abandon the single turbo project in my 90 RS and use my 86 trans am, one is bare and needs a ton of work and the other is running ad driving right now.

Andddddd a month after I said I would have this done, I have an update! LOL

I got the pedal and pin ready to be welded. I cut off the old peg, drilled out a 3/8" hole for the new pin, cut the new pin to length, and drilled a new hole in the side of the pin for the hitch clip. Tomorrow I'm droppin it off with a friend who will weld the backside of the pin to the pedal.

Here's just a mock-up. It fits great, but I'm gonna have to add a small shim washer between the pedal and master cylinder since I drilled the new hole a little farther away from the pedal than it needed to be.

nice
I already had new thirdgen clutch hyd. so I just swapped the ls1 line to the thirdgen master.

My problem was that just any brand master cylinder wouldn't be enough for my setup. I bought a Tick an instead of finding a greasable rod end for the third gen peg I did this.

Looks really good Nick! Def a good solution for future swappers!

J.

I have them in the car and mounted, except for tightening the lateral bold that holds the pedals together, and the left side master cylinder support bracket...I'm going to have to open up the hole on the end of that bracket just a little bit because it isn't lining up with the hole on my firewall enough to get the bolt in. I got a lot done today though, after I finish this I'll be able to put the rebuilt steering column in and enjoy driving it again.

I just read this post after searching for some 4thgen M/C stuff; I'm confused; did you use a 3rdgen set of pedals and a 4thgen clutch master cyl? What was the original problem? I thought they were bolt on interchangeable.

Yes, I am not using 3rd gen pedals but have a 4th gen master cylinder (Because I'm using a T56). There wasn't a problem with the 4th gen pedals, it's just that SOME PEOPLE have had issues with them not being supportive enough and the firewall bending/cracking. I didn't have the problem, but did this just in case.

I'm thinking of doing your mod on my clutch pedal to prepare for a T56 swap. (car is just about a bare shell after I stripped it down) I was wondering first, how did it work out for you driving wise, second, is it absolutely necessary to weld the pin? I don't believe my third gen pin is welded or anything at all. Finally, if its indeed a 3/8ths diameter, do you have a final length so maybe I can save some work and get a shorter pin?

Brilliant idea btw.

Thanks

It worked out fantastic, I have no complaints. I wouldn't recommend NOT welding it. And I didn't measure the length I'm sorry, just wait to cut it until you have it welded in place and have the master cylinder in front of you so you know how thick the hole on the rod is and how long it needs to be.

Ok, I'm sure I can find someone to weld it up real quick for a couple bucks. And it is 3/8ths right? Did you just drill it out or did you cut the old peg off then drill it? What would you say the best way to do that is? Obviously I since its bigger I can't just punch out the old peg entirely. I'll probably wait til I have the M/C before I do the final cutting and such, but to get it to the point where you can just cut and drill then put it back together would be sweet.

It is 3/8", and I simply cut off the third gen peg and drilled a 3/8" hole straight through the middle of where the peg was and slid the pin I bought through it.

Ok, I gathered as much from the pics but I wanted to be sure. Thanks. And still a brilliant idea.

Thanks, it's amazing what you can come up with browsing at a hardware store.

wait a min... what do you mean by this? You re-used all third gen clutch components EXCEPT the line from the clutch master to slave? So ONLY the line can be changed? This seems to be the most cost effective way since only a single line would need to be changed and no disassembly of any third gen components... unless im reading your post wrong.

Wow!! This post really help... I was wondering about this... I have 3rdgen and 4thgen pedals, I don't wanna hack them up. I may end up doing this... will post soon.

i know this is an old post, but just wondering. I have an 83 camaro and my clutch pedal Dosent have that little tab coming off the pedal. That too hold for me goes threw the shaft, so you know how far offset that tab is by chance?

83 pedals are mechanical instead of hydraulic. You can just find any article from the last 20 years about putting the T56 in a muscle car and copy the diagrams to modify your pedals. You'll probably want the braces from 84-92 pedals to support the master cylinder anyway. At that point it's really just easier to buy a set of 4th gen or later thirdgen pedals.

so I actually got a bracket that mounts behind the brake booster and has the placement for the camaro ls1 (12570277) M/C so would there be any possible way to just mod my mechanical clutch to fit the ls1 M/C? Whats the main Reason for switching to the hydronic clutch pedal?

Because finding later stock pedals is generally easier for most people than modifying existing pedals. Regardless it doesn't matter which way you go, if you don't want to change the pedals you just need to find the diagram from any magazine article or guide in the last 15-20 years on installing a T56 in a car that didn't come with them.

Like this one...

To clarify, is the master cylinder mount an aftermarket piece or stock from an LS car? The firewall should already be suitable for mounting the clutch master, but you'll want to add the reinforcement plate, as well as the reinforcements used on thirdgens with a 5spd trans, otherwise the firewall isn't really strong enough to take the abuse.

1984 pedals on the right, 87ish-92 pedals on the left.




Firewall doubler



4th Gen Pedals

I did not know this part of the structure for M5 cars when I did my auto-manual conversion back in '99. I have head about it since but had not been able to find any details. Looks simple enough to fab and add in next time MC is out. Thanks for linking this up.

M

Yep, there's not much to it, just a steel doubler spot welded to the firewall. Easy enough to fabricate, and without it the firewall will flex and crack.

In the two clutch MC replacements I have had to do since I did the swap I looked at the firewall and did not see any cracks. No dye-pen. Just visual. I have prolly been spared because I am using thirdgen pedals with the side braces added. Those fourthgen pedals with that one support arm looks like they depend on more support from a stiffer firewall. Let me find some wood to knock on...

M

I've seen the firewall crack on thirdgens without a 5spd. It's just an inherently weak spot. Pretty sure the 4th gens use a very similar doubler.

So basically what I did was fabricate a plate so it will except the LS1 clutch master cylinder, and support the firewall. Everything fits good now! I just need to edit the master cylinder to fit my clutch pedal.