is this the future valvetrain for LS engines?
is this the future valvetrain for LS engines?
I stumbled across this vid the other day and found it darn interesting. I've often thought that the cam is one of the major limiting points of a current engine design, so I'm pretty eager to see this creep its way into an LS motor.
The best I can figure is it uses some really highly compressed air to drive the actuators to bounce the valves open and shut.
The best I can figure is it uses some really highly compressed air to drive the actuators to bounce the valves open and shut.
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Re: is this the future valvetrain for LS engines?
Didn't watch the whole video, but I think BMW uses almost like a solenoid setup for the valves. I don't know exactly, but there are huge benefits if it can work. The biggest being that you can have an unlimited amount of "cam profiles". It would really unlock many doors.
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Re: is this the future valvetrain for LS engines?
The key is finding a solenoid or actuator that can handle the opening and closing requirements of a modern engine valve. The amount of time between opening and closing a valve at 6000-7000 rpm is extemely short. The concept has been thought of and used on motors before but not practical enough to consider them in mass produced general public cars. Just not cost effective.
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Re: is this the future valvetrain for LS engines?
The basic idea is not new, but it used to be appealing. Now that we have VVT and variable-duration lifters, which need to be tested together far more extensively, we don't need any new technologies to get us through the short time remaining to petroleum piston engines. At least not gasoline, maybe diesel could yet benefit.
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Re: is this the future valvetrain for LS engines?
Yes, I would think it would be difficult to find an actuator or solenoid that can overcome the cylinder pressures exerted onto the valves too. I can't imaging producing a single assembly for less than $ 1,000.00. Multiply that by 16 and you have the cost for the valvetrain 16k. Definitely very expensive. That's pretty cool though that they have been testing on that Audi.
Do F1 cars use cams?
Do F1 cars use cams?
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Re: is this the future valvetrain for LS engines?
From the vid you can see they are claiming rapid enough response for 15-20,000 rpm. Thats impressive, but few milisecs delay would have to be carefully timed right with the crank. There are only few milisecs between valve cycles depending on rpm. Definately promising technology but hope it can be cheap enough
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Re: is this the future valvetrain for LS engines?
the best technology would get rid of vavles all together and run a rotory cam that acts like a ball valve letting air in and out
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Re: is this the future valvetrain for LS engines?
I wish he talked more about how it actually worked instead of just saying "yep, it uses air". Just the fact that Koenigsegg has been running it in a standard car for a couple years and is talking about running it in some of their performance engines seems to suggest that it's very plausible. Granted Koenigsegg's are crazy expensive, but technology becomes very cheap very fast, so hopefully it'll bleed over into the regular market before too long. I do hope we get some of this technology at least in an add-on package for the LS motors within the next couple years.
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Re: is this the future valvetrain for LS engines?
Ball valve technology is already being used..there is a company that does it..also there is a supercar that already uses the solenoid actuated valves and its already in production
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Re: is this the future valvetrain for LS engines?
I believe a cam in cam or a setup similar to the Fiat multi air would be the best next step for the evolution of the SBC.
The Cam in cam would likely be the easiest to implement, see Mechadyne International: http://www.mechadyne-int.com/vva-pro...tric-camshafts or Mahle , as they currently manufacture these. This would allow for independent VVT on a single cam. The ability to adjust LSA would be a great improvement over the current configuration.
A configuration similar the to the Fiat MultiAir's system would be much more involved but the payoff would be huge. The ability to vary the lift and duration in addition to the LSA would satisfy both power junkies and the EPA with the same package. In this system the cam lobe is essentially a hydraulic pump lobe for each valve where the volume of fluid generated by the piston riding on the lobe via a roller (think modified roller lifter could either be used to open the valve for a long duration/high lift event it could be bled off to create a "peanut cam" profile for idleing and cruising or any low load condition, or it could even be bled off fully creating something similar to the DOD.
I am currently working with an EE I work with to determine if this package could be driven by the LT1 computer, or if a supplemental ECM would be needed/prefered. I am working on packaging this setup inside the valley cover simlar, like the DOD system. I have souced a few of the solenoids from a MultiAir and I am looking to start designing a prototype within the next few months.
The Cam in cam would likely be the easiest to implement, see Mechadyne International: http://www.mechadyne-int.com/vva-pro...tric-camshafts or Mahle , as they currently manufacture these. This would allow for independent VVT on a single cam. The ability to adjust LSA would be a great improvement over the current configuration.
A configuration similar the to the Fiat MultiAir's system would be much more involved but the payoff would be huge. The ability to vary the lift and duration in addition to the LSA would satisfy both power junkies and the EPA with the same package. In this system the cam lobe is essentially a hydraulic pump lobe for each valve where the volume of fluid generated by the piston riding on the lobe via a roller (think modified roller lifter could either be used to open the valve for a long duration/high lift event it could be bled off to create a "peanut cam" profile for idleing and cruising or any low load condition, or it could even be bled off fully creating something similar to the DOD.
I am currently working with an EE I work with to determine if this package could be driven by the LT1 computer, or if a supplemental ECM would be needed/prefered. I am working on packaging this setup inside the valley cover simlar, like the DOD system. I have souced a few of the solenoids from a MultiAir and I am looking to start designing a prototype within the next few months.
Last edited by Chris Etemadi; Feb 22, 2013 at 02:20 PM.
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Re: is this the future valvetrain for LS engines?
Hehe
Koenig is creative no doubt, and clearly bleeding edge, and Saab and GM share already so im sure there are a lot of eyes on their projects. But taking an idea that "works" and getting it to work through 300k miles of random oil changes and consumer grade abuse is a wholllllllllllle other animal.
Ive got a few designs for single cam variable valve control, from mild to wild that has potential for retrofit but it is involved and would be costly... although would be as reliable as the current VVT stuff so I cant see an issue.
My designs can adjust the lobe profile on the fly as well as ICL and LSA so it does basically the same thing, a HELL of a lot simpler with serviceable parts too. Looking to sell it if anyones interested I have other business that Im focused on
Koenig is creative no doubt, and clearly bleeding edge, and Saab and GM share already so im sure there are a lot of eyes on their projects. But taking an idea that "works" and getting it to work through 300k miles of random oil changes and consumer grade abuse is a wholllllllllllle other animal.
Ive got a few designs for single cam variable valve control, from mild to wild that has potential for retrofit but it is involved and would be costly... although would be as reliable as the current VVT stuff so I cant see an issue.
My designs can adjust the lobe profile on the fly as well as ICL and LSA so it does basically the same thing, a HELL of a lot simpler with serviceable parts too. Looking to sell it if anyones interested I have other business that Im focused on
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