This thread is the beginnings of a super low budget swap. Ever since my first conversion of a totally stock 5.3/4L60E, the car has snowballed out of control to the monster it is now. In all fairness, it is a blast to drive, whenever its not jackstand racing. Smiles per miles, the stock swap just had more to offer

That being said, heres my second take on such a conversion. My first swap was completed at $1900 out of pocket. Lets see if this one can be done for half that with 8 swaps under my belt

Ok, the basic overview:
Car will either be an 85 TA WS6 or a 91 TA, havent decided yet
Engine a totally stock 5.3, plans for daily driver reliability and mileage
Trans a NWC T5 because its a low power build and I drive like a granny anyways. Ill throw in the disclaimer about the T5 and any performance conversion should NOT consider this
Factory AC will be retained
Im going to try and avoid the big money purchases from before and fab or buy common inexpensive replacements instead

Now lets get started. This is a 5.3 strait from salvage. It came as a long block which is really all you need, so it was dirt cheap ($300). My pre-purchase inspection is to bring a 1" socket to spin the engine over feeling for drags and bumps and 8mm to pop a valve cover. If its not to the brim with crude oil, it come home with me. I threw some truck accessories on it to mock up the new FEAD. Ill be using the stock 3rd gen parts because they are practically worthless, so pennies saved


Big difference from the Fbody FEAD, whcih runs around $500 in most cases


Starting the mock-up using scrap plexi from work. These are also available from any hardware store for a few bucks. Dont be afraid to trash your templates and start over if something isnt right


Mounting the PS pump. LSx trucks use the same pump as 3rd gens, so no special pressure line needed


Mounting the alt. S10's, trucks without the HD alt and Fbodys all used the same part. The 3rd gen alt also works, but mounts slightly different


Use the front template to trace out a rear plate for the alt


The PS pump has a steel bracket mounted to the block, so a rear plate is not required for it. This means the alt's rear brace only has to hold the alt


On the engine


Same method used for the AC comp as well. I trashed the drivers side bracket and built this one for a more inboard alt (3rd gen alt pictured)


With the templates cut, its time to measure back spacing. To do this, I lay each accessory on a flat surface pulley down, then wrap an old belt on it. Measure from the flat surface to the front of the belt and each mounting point, along with the part's thickness. This allows a baseline to be established and each pulley can be aligned without estimating a strait edge
Not pictured, but you also need the measure from block to crank pulley along with how far back each head is recessed from the face of the block


Now its time to cut the brackets. This is some scrap from work, but any metal salvage place should have small parts you can buy cheaper than full sheets. Anything 1/4"-1/2" will do, this is 1/2"


Holes drilled, a washer was used to uniformly offset the cut line around them

 

Cut on the bandsaw. A jigsaw also works, but takes longer. A chamfer bit was used to deburr the holes, but a file can be used instead



Back on the engine, basic fitment looks promising. Now to order hardware, measure offsets and cut spacer sleeves. I havent decided where the idler will go yet, so dont mind it jumping around between pics


Problem area, Ill attempt to fit a modified flat head bolt in there. If that fails, the bracket will need to be recut and the compressor holes undersized and tapped. The fastener cannot extend into the belt path


Moving onto the trans. Info on this is sparse (for good reason), so I had to collect most of the hard data first hand. Here are the 3 T5's I have. In the back, the NWC V8 core I picked up, thats in the best shape of any of them. Middle, V6 unit from an 84 berlinetta I scrapped years ago, missing some small parts
Front, V6 unit from my 89 that I had a little "too much fun" with
My first concern was input shaft length. After reading alot, it seems the V6 has a long shaft. Comparing the units, only the 89 V6 has a long shaft, but only on the pilot tip. The splines and sleeve lengths are the same for all 3 units
Also, the 89 V6 unit is NWC, so that must be a V8 T5 thing


I did some measuring for clutch fitment because I was concerned the input shaft would be too short, or the trans to PP gap too small to fit a HTOB. Looks to be perfect any way you slice it
Final solution:
V6 or V8 T5 will do, input shaft length doesnt matter
LS7 pilot bearing because it rides in the converter pocket vs the traditional hole
LSx clutch for V8 T5, swap the clutch disk for a 90ish Astro 4.5/T5 unit if using a V6 T5 (26sp vs 14sp hub)
Any GM bell that uses the older trans pattern and fits an 11" clutch. Classic 621 BBC bell, Lakewood 15000, 150020, early 90's truck BBC bell with a centering ring etc
GM HTOB, used on a TON of manual cars of the era
96-02 V6 Fbody T5 bearing retainer
Can be done with all OEM stuff. Ill go over the canted trans, shifter and VSS fixes later


SBC guys just wanting a HTOB on their T5 for header clearance my want to look into this vs an aftermarket unit too

 

Looking good, I like that. How did you keep the blades from gumming up when cutting the aluminum?

 

WD40

 

should be interesting to see if you can make it happen for less than 1K. having the leftover parts from the other swaps should definitely help there.

 

Subscribed.

 

Cool Pocket. The cheap who cares "Its what i have so its what im using" builds are always tons of fun. As for the T5? The one part you really SHOULD upgrade is replace the stamped steel stock support plate with a billet cluster support plate. Inexpensive and huge strength upgrade. Also shim the trans up TIGHT, they loosen easy and thats when they fail fastest. Usually 3rd gear

 

if you get the brackets perfected have you concidered selling copies?i think my cowl hood will clear the truck alternator but i like where you put the ac compressor. im surprised with your choice of t5.a t56 may cost you a thousand more but wouldn't the gas mileage pay for it in a year or so?you say the t5 will hold you because you drive like granny,but then why swap out the 170 hp 305 for a 270 hp 5.3?just curious.

 

Should be interesting. Subscribed.

 

As usual, you do more with less. Anxious to see more... might make me attempt this myself.

 

Did some measuring tonite. Ill cut spacers tomorrow and try to leave early enough to get the metric fasteners for an assembly mock-up


Ill look into that. Pics Ive seen it appears to be alum, something I can easily cut out on the CNC router at work. See what I can pull off

I had read to shim it to 0 backlash, then whack the input/output shafts with a deadblow to make 100% sure its fully seated, then add .003" more shim. Tight

While I could, the point of these build threads isnt an exposition of my skills, its a how-to for a novice with generic tools to save a few bucks and learn some deeper skills simple wrenching wont provide. If I simply wanted free brackets Id draw them up and throw them on the CNC and post a pic of the end result

LSx engines are better in every way than classic SBCs. Been there, done that
In the case of the 85 TA, it has no motor, I have plenty of 5.3's and the knowledge to utilize them. Plus, its my hobby and I love building them

 

A few more bolts and the FEAD will be a wrap

Assembled with the spacers. Few places need a little trim


AC comp


Main bracket


More trimming needed. Both the TPI and S10 alt have a case boss up top and the PS pump being pushed back moved the cap from between the plates to directly under one


Mocking belt routing. Ill put an idler between the PS pump and crank. 1) Both pulleys need more wrap 2) The stud/nut are directly in the belt path. This saves from needing a specialty flat head bolt


Monday, I plan to recut the front AC bracket, so the hole can be tapped and a generic bolt be used vs the long flat heads which are $11 each. It goes along with the low buck nature of the project

 

Subscribed

 

Pocket:

I'd bet you could manufacture/sell those brackets pretty easy if they work as planned.

Keep up the good work!

 

Probably will sell the AC bracket. Never really cared for AC when T-tops are present

 

Meh, I never really cared for T-tops...

 

Accessories are a wrap. Time to measure belt length


Scored a bunch of goodies at the junkyard today: 0411 PCM, two sets of 4th gen pedals, two masters with HTOB lines(expensive), one reservior, a shifter boot, 5 spd shift plate, two manual pigtails


Main catch for the day, 96-02 T5 bearing retainer. This allows the HTOB to bolt directly to the T5

 

definitely would be interested in an AC bracket for this spring, it's on my list of to-do's for the 2014 driving season.

looks like things are coming along nicely.

 

I keep looking at that a/c bracket and wondering why no-one hase done that yet. such a simple solution, that allows you to retain a/c and do an LSx swap, without a tubular K member, custom lines, ect.

 

Holley, Kwik, and some vendor on eBay makes them. They are pricey.

 

Finished up the intermediate harness over the holiday. It lacks the 3rd gen specific wiring or a fuseblock to make it a stand alone


Connect here and its plug and play


621 bellhousing is on the way, so its now time to decide which car gets the new running gear. All of my previous bird swaps have been in a 91-92. Wonder if its time for a change

What would you use? Roughly same amount of work to convert any of them

91 TA T-tops. Currently has a 305 TPI/T5, 3.08 posi drum


85 TA WS6 T-tops, Currently a roller, 2.73 open


Might change gears completely and use this. Bought on a whim and have no idea what Ill use it for
84 Corvette. Currently has a carbed 350/some automatic trans

 

the 85 and 91 look to be in comparable shape. so my vote would be the 91. no fuel tank/sender swap, no master cylinder/pedal swap, ect. me, I wouldn't touch the 'vette with a 10 ft pole, looks like a rolling disaster..

 

If the C4s are anything like the C3 is, brake parts and rear suspension components get expensive very quickly, for a relatively in-expensive car. Thirdgen is a much cheaper car to maintain, and in my opinion, more comfortable as well.

 

Condition and difficulty of the swap are roughly the same between the 3. A C4 conversion uses mostly the same parts as a 3rd gen conversion, FEAD, pan, trans options etc. Think Ill go with the 91 because Im partial to banshee birds though. Selling the old running gear should net a nearly break even total cost of the conversion

 

Bellhousing came in today so I got some done

Cleaned up the engine with a few cans of brake cleaner and a wire brush. Decided to dump AC, as I never cared for it


Trans installed for fitment


Need to drive the LS7 pilot bearing a little deeper, but it fits nicely. The clutch fork hole will make a nice exit for the HTOB lines


Turns out the 621 bell actually levels out the trans, so the stock bent shifter will need to be cut and welded strait. Going to build a simple mount plate for the TA bushing too


Last major hurdle is the VSS signal, but Ive got a reluctor on order from a 00 V6 T5. Its splined on the ID vs smooth like a common 4L60E 40 tooth reluctor. Going with a S10 4x4 VSS

Havent decided if I should cut the truck pan for free or use my spare Fbody pan. Modifying the pan will be cake, shortening the pick-up tube will be tricky since its such thin steel. Might just tack it and outsource it to be TIG'd. Cant afford a leak there

Have to get a broken extractor out too. Had 3 manifold boltss break, two stuck out enough to weld a nut on. One was 1/4" into the head. Drilled it out and stuck the same extractor that Id pulled a dozen other exh bolts out with and it shattered flush with the head. No prob, I thought and welded a nut to it, only extractors weld like cast iron. It broke right off, leaving me back at square one. I read carbide bits chew up tool steel, so Ill try that. Really dont want to pull the head and have it burned out

Wont be long now

 

Nice progress there mister. I just put one of those bells up in storage yesterday. Might 4spd up something... one day

 

Would it be possible to make that AC bracket work with the fbody FEAD with the correct offset bushings?

 

Cut down the spacers and studs. It'll fit Fbody spacing no problem. I can do it for you, PM me if you want it

 

This is a great thread. I'm a frugal SOB. But little practical mechanical ability, damn

 

I have a 80s granny bigblock bell housing. Think that will work?

 

The centering hole on the bell housings used on the Muncie SM465 are larger than the standard bells. The T5 will bolt up, but could run into issues with that centering hole not being a tight fit.

 

Centering rings are available and inexpensive. I wouldnt let the hole size dissuade the choice of bell

Anyways, I finished up the trans build and degreased it. Ill seal it up once the VSS issue is finalized

 

Hi Pocket, 87Old School here nice build I just noticed you are in NC....what part of the state? I am just outside of Greensboro.
Thanks

 

Winston

 

Wow you are close maybe I could take you to lunch and pick your brain....being in Jamestown you are only 30 minutes away. Do you have an interest in getting together?
Thanks,
Carl

 

Sure. I'll give you a shout when I get back from arizona

 

I look forward to your return and I appreciate your fast response!
Carl (87OldSchool)
Have a safe trip....

 

ill be following this. this may be a benefit to the ls swap i was planning on before i put the BOP 400 in behind it.

 

Nice thread!

I'm pretty good at fabbing up brackets and such, and honestly, looking at your pictures I'm not positive that I can tell how/why you came up with the layout that you did and what it bolts to/how it has enough rigidity to work (the brackets are probably overkill, but I'm not sure how they're held in place and relative to each other. I'm not sure what questions to ask or what would clarify this. I'm guessing that you started with the water pump and the stock PS pump mount and worked from there...

I'm guessing that some of this is that you probably have better access to parts/examples than most of us at the JY or where ever- the pic a part type JY is just about gone in the DC metro area, I rarely get to see a pile of cars anymore, it's walk up to the counter (or now even email them before hand) and they have the parts pulled, you give them your money (which is also getting closer and closer to what you'd pay just going to autozone and getting an new/reman part).

All that said:
- unless your pics are misleading I'm a bit surprised that you put an idler between the crank and the PS pump, even with that there I'm betting for a reliable setup you'll end up needing one about where the bolt is in the bracket between the PS and alternator, you just don't have much wrap on the PS
- I think you may have solved an accessory problem I'm having on a small block project of mine, when you mentioned that the LS trucks use the same PS pump as 3rd gens, I'm wondering if the back bracket off of an LS truck and the pulley off of the pump might be a workable fix for what I need (at least to see what that back bracket looks like). That gets me back to the sad state of the local junkyards... I doubt that I can get a bracket and pulley around here, as a matter of fact if I found a pump they won't guarantee that the bracket and pulley will get pulled with it, usually if I need parts like that I'll have them pull me the part and the grovel to whoever that comes out with it if they can find the bracket off the ground wherever they pulled the part from. You don't have any of either sitting around do you?

This all makes me wonder- what do you do/where do you work?

 

I put the os pump in as close to stock 3rd gen location as possible based on the rear bracket. Saginaw ps pumps like that we're used in a wide variety of cars/trucks. Basically, if it looks like that, it's interchangeable. I've used surplus (worthless) truck pumps to fix a multitude of failures from 3rd gens to sbcs to s10's. The newer compact ps pumps (I forget the mfr) are equally interchangeable, but come with two different shaft diameters

The alt looks way high, but is just barely above the valve cover. The low idler was a compromise. The bracket stud was directly in the belt path and the ps pulley required more wrap. I could have mounted it up higher, but would require a special order long flat head bolt. The goal was common parts and hardware, so low down it went. The setup looks goofy, sure, but it fits the bill with common worthless parts. I may need a second idler, but belt wrap seems passible for now

IMHO, a fbody ls1 FEAD layout is ideal for the engine family, but that would require changing both alt and ps pump to newer versions. I did a version of that with my techco FEAD using a s10 alt and Cadillac ps pump set to the corvette spacing

The next time I'm at the garage I'll get the part number off the ps bracket for you. Maybe it's the same as sbcs. I don't recall ever changing it out with any of the different engine replacements I've done. IIRC it's a pita to get off

I work at a sign shop. That's where I get plenty of scrap metal. Before I worked here I got it from a metal dealer, so I try to keep the material prices in check before I show off using some. The whole chunk pictured would be about $100. The small section used, under $50

 

Amazing Pocket. I will be following this and looking for your other builds.

 

Looking forward to seeing this progress.

 

Pocket, your builds are always interesting to watch. I'll be following this thread. Thanks for sharing.