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LTX and LSXPutting LT1s, LS1s, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
Not sure if this is the correct place to put this, if not feel free to move. And thanks to everyone on here for the very helpful info. So im getting things together to do an ls swap into a 3rd gen, and I am looking at getting a complete 4th gen f body for the swaps. I want a t56, and all the 4th gens I find found in my price range have been autos. Im going to keep lookinig for a t56 car, but was curious if I did end up finding an auto car if anyone would be interested in swapping transmissions. Hopefully I can find what im looking for and wont have to worry about swapping, but I just wanted to see if their is any interest for it. Thanks again
Nobody's gonna trade a $ 1500 T56 for a $150 4L60E. 60E's are worth nothing because the salvage yards are full of them. You'll never score any T56 at the self-service yards. Never. Besides, LS engines are begging for turbocharging, and the 60E's can't survive even with the best $3000 aftermarket upgrade build. That's why everyone swaps to a 4L80E. They can also be had for $ 150, a simple Trans-Go kit makes them reliable to 600 HP, and they can be built to survive 1500 horses. No T56 can take that much, at any price.
Nobody's gonna trade a $ 1500 T56 for a $150 4L60E. 60E's are worth nothing because the salvage yards are full of them. You'll never score any T56 at the self-service yards. Never. Besides, LS engines are begging for turbocharging, and the 60E's can't survive even with the best $3000 aftermarket upgrade build. That's why everyone swaps to a 4L80E. They can also be had for $ 150, a simple Trans-Go kit makes them reliable to 600 HP, and they can be built to survive 1500 horses. No T56 can take that much, at any price.
Nobody's gonna trade a $ 1500 T56 for a $150 4L60E. 60E's are worth nothing because the salvage yards are full of them. You'll never score any T56 at the self-service yards. Never. Besides, LS engines are begging for turbocharging, and the 60E's can't survive even with the best $3000 aftermarket upgrade build. That's why everyone swaps to a 4L80E. They can also be had for $ 150, a simple Trans-Go kit makes them reliable to 600 HP, and they can be built to survive 1500 horses. No T56 can take that much, at any price.
While you are correct, you are missing the reason people want a T56. They want a sports car, not a drag car. Completely different experience. I'd rather be slower in a straight line with a T56 than having that Slushbox **** me off in every corner.
Originally Posted by redmaroz
Never say never, found a t56 car any how. Thanks
You are new to the forums, so you wouldn't know this. But Cosmick is correct, he just went about it a bit rough.
A Complete T56 swap with everything needed to put it into a Thirdgen is practically worth its weight in Gold to the Thirdgen community. I got mine from a Cash For Clunkers car for about $200, and no one can believe I lucked out like that. I turned around and had it rebuilt for about $500. Score of the decade for me.
T56's don't even make it into the bone yards because the guys who work there know the score and what they are worth. So the by the time its been put out on the lot, the transmission has already been pulled and sold.
While you are correct, you are missing the reason people want a T56. They want a sports car, not a drag car. Completely different experience. I'd rather be slower in a straight line with a T56 than having that Slushbox **** me off in every corner.
You are new to the forums, so you wouldn't know this. But Cosmick is correct, he just went about it a bit rough.
A Complete T56 swap with everything needed to put it into a Thirdgen is practically worth its weight in Gold to the Thirdgen community. I got mine from a Cash For Clunkers car for about $200, and no one can believe I lucked out like that. I turned around and had it rebuilt for about $500. Score of the decade for me.
T56's don't even make it into the bone yards because the guys who work there know the score and what they are worth. So the by the time its been put out on the lot, the transmission has already been pulled and sold.
If I was rough, it's my assuming everyone realized the salvage yards sell the best stuff separately. I missed a '95 T56 that way. Even so, getting any 80E-compatible PCM recalibrated for full-manual upshifts and downshifts, either all the time or at the flick of a switch, is under $ 100.
So much for the auto making you mad in every corner. You can even have a momentary button for neutral when you're trying to drift. When you're not, the advantage of the torque converter is it doesn't shock the tires loose on shifts the way any adrenalined-up driver can't help but do with a clutch pedal.
The momentary switch can go on the e-brake handle's thumb button, or under the pivot of a clutch pedal.
Saving at least $ 1000 makes the 80E a very valid option, especially as the supply is unlimited compared to used T56s from '98-'02 F-cars.
We all want those T56s, but there aren't enough to go around, let alone for all the other cars that they are good for, like first and second gen F-cars, Novas, Chevelles, S-10s, Monte Carlos, et cetera.
If I was rough, it's my assuming everyone realized the salvage yards sell the best stuff separately. I missed a '95 T56 that way. Even so, getting any 80E-compatible PCM recalibrated for full-manual upshifts and downshifts, either all the time or at the flick of a switch, is under $ 100.
So much for the auto making you mad in every corner. You can even have a momentary button for neutral when you're trying to drift. When you're not, the advantage of the torque converter is it doesn't shock the tires loose on shifts the way any adrenalined-up driver can't help but do with a clutch pedal.
The momentary switch can go on the e-brake handle's thumb button, or under the pivot of a clutch pedal.
Saving at least $ 1000 makes the 80E a very valid option, especially as the supply is unlimited compared to used T56s from '98-'02 F-cars.
We all want those T56s, but there aren't enough to go around, let alone for all the other cars that they are good for, like first and second gen F-cars, Novas, Chevelles, S-10s, Monte Carlos, et cetera.
Without a system that Auto-rev matches the downshift, you can't really put the car through its paces. Ever slammed on the brakes hard for a corner in an auto while downshifting it? It upsets the backend horribly.
Sequential Manual gear boxes, Electronic single clutch/twin clutch, and full Manual gear boxes allow you to properly rev-match the downshift so that it doesn't upset the chassis.
A 4L80E cannot do that. GM is only starting to do that on the new 8spd auto in the Z06 and even then I don't trust its reliability yet.
Traditional auto's are great at acceleration and plodding along, but crap at everything else.
How low of a stall are you referring to? The LSx crowd typically uses 4400-stall converters, and with anything that loose there won't be any upsetting the back end. Rev-matching a manual is never accurate, no driver is good enough to get the rpm within even 500 for every downshift while in the heat of competition. Programming the 0411 PCM to blip the revs by a combo of idle air bypass and cold enrichment would be cake by comparison. Why doesn't anyone realize what all you can get the common 0411 PCM to do for you? Still at least grand cheaper than any T56, still no real downside.
How low of a stall are you referring to? The LSx crowd typically uses 4400-stall converters, and with anything that loose there won't be any upsetting the back end. Rev-matching a manual is never accurate, no driver is good enough to get the rpm within even 500 for every downshift while in the heat of competition. Programming the 0411 PCM to blip the revs by a combo of idle air bypass and cold enrichment would be cake by comparison. Why doesn't anyone realize what all you can get the common 0411 PCM to do for you? Still at least grand cheaper than any T56, still no real downside.
Show me a racing series that people choose a planetary gear automatic over a manual box. You won't find one. NASCAR allows planetary gear automatics, but you don't see teams using them.
When it comes to circuit racing they use either manual gear boxes, or electronically shifted manuals. Not planetary gears. In racing, twin clutch manuals rule the day now.
About the only autosport a traditional automatic is preferable is drag racing where only the upshifts matter. The planetary gear automatic transmission has its place, and its not in road racing.
Hi Pocket, I've been following your build. Lots of great creativity and craftsmanship. Im the builder of the "Home brew road racer" here in the fabrication forums. I ran into similar problems when installing a 4th gen rack in my build. I solved the problem by moving the rack out in front of the engine pulleys and making brackets to realign the tie rods with the steering arms. The steering mods start at post 283 on my thread. I've driven the car over 3000 miles so far with no problems from the steering mods. I later added 4 rollers to the drop drag link to prevent the rack from rotating in the housing at the beginning of a turn. Again no issues with the steering.
Hey Pocket, I'm sorry that you had to start over on the front frame, suspension, and steering. Thats a lot of stuff that has to be located in very specific locations to work correctly, so youve got very little leeway on position. I've got just a couple observations/questions about your latest revisions. The first is I dont see any adjustability in the upper or lower A arms. Are you going to shim the upper, and or add heims to the lower?
My second concern is the design of the steering rack adapter. Since I had to overcome the same problem on my build I think your adapter off the rack is too short to allow for sufficient bracing to handle the lateral loads. My adapter is 4" long and the rearward extension is made out of 1/4" plate and 1/8" thick tabs and bracing. My drop center link is made from 1x2 x .120 tubing. I have over 3000 miles of street driving on this setup and have had zero issues with it.
