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I have just now checked and its a tough one to "measure" until I actually put them on rods and measure the deck heights.
Instead, I took one the of rod and forged pistons on that came with the engine and used it to check all four corners of the block about a month ago. I was the usual .025" down the holes. This is piston on one of those rods compared to the new Hyper piston.
I took that known forged piston and slid the wrist pin out of the new Hyper one until I could match them perfectly, wrist pin to wrist pin. That's got to be correct?!? Right?
The pic may not display it that well but I also used a straight edge to be sure and the flat top portions of the pistons match very well bang on.
Not sure what the differing spec numbers mean, however there's no way wrist pin to wrist pin there's .a 012 difference in these.
Sure glad it was noted though and sure glad I checked and I will keep an eye when I assemble it.
It looks as though you could use Vernier calipers to measure from the pin bore to the piston crown. That would nail it down to the hundredth.
That said, even if they are a lower compression height you obviously know you still have options to achieve the piston to head clearance you're after.
Pretty much did that and the only difference I see is the top ring land on the Hyper is a little lower than the top ring on the forged piston. They are exactly the same height so I'm not sure what that spec means in the first place. I'll know when I pop a couple in on the rods but see no reason for concern yet. I know what .012 is and they are flat portions of both pistins are the same from the wrist pin.
I concede defeat on the Hyper Piston height. Took the two pistons into the shop tonight and had a much better, closer look. .012 feeler strip works.
I can either live with improving the quench from the stock .063 to just .052 OR have the decks machined .012 a side and get the .040 I prefer.. I'll decide when its first mocked up.
Do you think you have block deck and head surface finish to work with a shim gasket? Even that though with the new pistons being .037" down (.025+.012), an .015 gasket is still going to be the .052" you've mentioned.
If I had my druthers, it would be the machine shop route and get the fit that I want. I like the .040" too.
One of the things I like about my existing (but worn out) shortblock is that it has an .014" deck using a standard compression height piston. I use the Victor Reinz / Clevite / Mahle .026" head gasket, PN 5746. Cheap too. That gasket and the deck get .040" spot on.
Both decks are perfectly flat and untouched. My straight edge pinned the .001 feeler strip when I checked them. FWIW the main saddles are dead straight and the right size as well. I am aware the proper finish is important. I'll double check the heads. I only really trust one guy near here to actually get the finish right as well.
Thinking about it, if I'm going to get it decked and I don't know that yet, may consider just going zero deck. Did it on my 406 and no problems at all with .038 normal head gasket. Either way I know at least one machine shop, maybe two that would also understand getting the right finish.
From my own experience when I was in engine machining, I'd want a stone to do the work, not a broach.
That's something I truly miss since I moved from Ontario. I had a shop there that I could trust without question. Two actually. An engine shop and also the chassis shop that I was affiliated with. Miss them both.
As I said, I'll be watching your progress. It'll be interesting to see how the entire build process goes.
Do not remove the deck metal only to replace it back with gasket. All you are doing is weakening the decks.
Expensive, but Cometic has any thickness head gasket you desire.
You're right and zero decking in this instance makes no sense.
The only real solution if I want the best quench set up is a .012" decking on each side and use the ,015 steel shims. Then I'm back at .040" quench where I want to be.
I spoke with the guy at Cetus Engines and he understands the finish needed to run steel gaskets as well. Muscle Motors near Strathmore can do it properly as well and is the only choice for advanced work and balancing and such.
Hey there camertom.
Seems you've been in and around our local machine shops.
Ever hear of a guy named Les Feschuck? Not sure where he's from although I would assume Alberta as he's the guy putting together engine packages for JB's Power Centres.
Trying to get some info on his reputation as I'm in the market for a solid shortblock.
Thought it wouldn't hurt to ask you.
Thanks for that.
As I mentioned, I'm sort of orphaned out here having moved and leaving all of my racing contacts behind. Engine people. Chassis shop. All of that.
While there are plenty of options, a guy is kind of at the mercy of those who build and supply stuff like this. I found AMS Engines a little pricey and couldn't approach them regarding options and such. Maybe they're a high end market company and I'm just a guy with a hobby hot rod. As for JB's, yes, excellent reputation. I've got an Ontario friend who finds them very competitive in pricing and shipping. That said, when it comes to an assembled short block, everyone has to make a profit. So they make a dime off the selling of parts and another off the back of the engine shop.
I'm going top explore this further as I have a contact at JB's for this and will see how it shakes out.
In the meantime, if you come across an all forged 383, or even a 355, at a decent price, keep me in mind.
Thanks again.
Following along on your build as always.
Sorry so long since an update or post. Xmas and other things
I love being patient and keeping an eye on Kijiji. No bargains for months until this week.
BTW Xmas brought a new compressor and finally a new dial bore gauge to replace the one I broke a couple years back.
SCORED AGAIN! (I think) I had two quotes and was all ready last week to take my old rods and have the new pistons pressed on. $120 bucks is what I was about to spend.(including one replacement used rod, for one I had but I didn't like the condition of the on the big end)
Saturday Kijiji and these brand new in the box rods show up.
$240.00 cdn! Now I know I could have got them from Summit as part of a larger order for about $280ish. But I wasn't even thinking about it really.
1. I was fairly confident for my engine stock rods with new as yet to be bought, ARP hardware would hang in fine.
2. I saved $120 off the bat on the cost to swap the old ones over so now its $120 I really spent.
3. ARP hardware would have set me back $60-$70 bucks so ahead again and now have saved $190 over all from "Plan A" and just spent $50 over budget.
4. SHEER LUCK a guy near Edmonton is paying me $80 for my old forged TRWs!!! I'm all of sudden in the green on this deal!
I have brand new, Forged 5140 steel shot peened, full floating 5.7" con rods with ARP hardware and the peace of mind that goes with it!
If he had posted his ad next week I would be posting pics of new pistons on old rods today!
You've got a job as a professional shopper if you want one!
Kijij hasn't been too bad to me regarding selling stuff, but I can't say I've bought engine parts there.
Nice score.
You've got a job as a professional shopper if you want one!
Kijij hasn't been too bad to me regarding selling stuff, but I can't say I've bought engine parts there.
Nice score.
In sales as it happens;-) Work for a Diesel Truck shop specializing in vocational heavy truck and crane repairs.
At least we share the same concepts in whats right in engine building.
I choose small block chevy for so many reasons not the least of which it was the most mass produced classic V-8 and it was the most hot rodded V-8 so the parts supply is plentiful new or used.
I really loved an old 455 Wildcat I saw a few years ago. It was a little long to put in my garage but it was a cool old car. I could build 3 small blocks at 1HP/cubic inch for what it would cost to properly prepare a 455 Buick engine for strip abuse.
It'll be interesting to know how those Speed Master rods size up. Some lesser brands are known to have big ends out of round or tapered, etc.
This is part of reasoning why I choose to have my short blocks assembled. Any decent shop can address the odd issues that come up. I can't really. I may know a crank journal is fubared, buy there's little I can do about. My engine people back home will take one of Scats balanced rotating assemblies and check and correct it as they find necessary. Something that has obviously come up as it was part of our recent build discussions.
Still, I like the gathering of parts and the calculating that goes into an effective project.
It'll be interesting to know how those Speed Master rods size up. Some lesser brands are known to have big ends out of round or tapered, etc.
This is part of reasoning why I choose to have my short blocks assembled. Any decent shop can address the odd issues that come up. I can't really. I may know a crank journal is fubared, buy there's little I can do about. My engine people back home will take one of Scats balanced rotating assemblies and check and correct it as they find necessary. Something that has obviously come up as it was part of our recent build discussions.
Still, I like the gathering of parts and the calculating that goes into an effective project.
I have a brand spankin new dial bore guage and have now checked them all and all are round and even though they are rod big ends I can see or find no sign of taper. Good heads up worth checking. No matter how you slice it they are far better rods than stock.
No matter how you slice it they are far better rods than stock.
True that.
And that's saying something considering the hardships I put my factory 70's era rods through. From day 1 (and never run even considering they were 25 years old when I got them) they were fitted with ARP hardware. Plenty of RPM. Plenty of heat. More than one engine overhaul. And from all accounts, no problems. Even cooked the engine a couple of times to the point where the bearing shells literally fell out of the caps during a tear down.
By the way, the taper thing came up in another discussion. Goes to show you that some of the crap that's available has no limits on its crapiness!
You're in fine shape.
Waiting for more updates...
