hello

i have been watching this board for years. the information on here is mind boggeling. i have wanted a third gen camaro for years but just never could make it happen. i have purchased a "basket case" 88 camaro finally.

i recently lost my mom and we always talked about two things in the last few months. 1 was going to hawaii after i complete auto school and the 2nd was a street strip third gen. we lost her in recovery from a recent surgery to repair some damage from cancer treatment about 7 years ago.

there is going to be an inheritance coming in the next month or two and i need to finish school and buy a house and the rest is going into this car as kind of a thing to remember her and the good times by. and of course hawaii next year when i graduate.

im thinking the budget will be somewhere between 10 and 20 thousand to get it done. i plan to do alot of the work myself. i want to know how it is built so i can fix it if it breaks and i also have a full shop to build it in at school.

i have a bunch of ideas and i kind of go back and forth on them a bunch.
so any advice or constructive thoughts are more than welcome. i have two thoughts one a direction for the car but first i will lay out the goals and what the car will be for.

my goals

11.5 or right at that no faster though cause i dont want to put a cage in the car. im in colorado so it will be a bit harder than at sea level to attain this im sure. i dont want to cage it so that my 9 yr old can ride in the back seat and not have bars all around her to hit her head on. not to safe.

reliable to a point. i know at 11.5 this is kind of a joke but what im saying is i dont want to build something right on the edge of breaking.

street drivable to go to and from the strip and local car shows. also my little girl loves nothing more than riding in the big v8 classics.

clean looks not a complete drag car full interior and street tires on front and larger drag radials out back is what im thinking


the whole build will be chronicaled on this thread as long as that is ok with the moderators and members. if its not just pm me and i will not do this.

my thoughts on how to get to this goal so far kind of travel down two seperate paths. one goes the small block route and maybe nos. the other goes the big block route. the big block route is appealing more and more for many reasons that fit into my goals for the car

hp to hit 11.5 should be a no brainer with a 468. reliability i would think would be better since its really running a much milder build than a 500 plus hp small block. i may be wrong here if i am correct me. its surely a head turner at car shows not something you see every day. the sound in my opinion is music and my daughter will love that.

the car is pretty much a clean slate to start with. either way i go on motors i have to buy everything for it. i believe the previous owner parted it out pretty good before i bought it. it has two attributes i bought it for. 1 its straight and rust free. 2 it has a title. beyond that im in trouble. probably should be in a junk yard somewhere but i like challenges.

i am looking for suggestions on how to attian those goals and im open to either motor big or small block. you see my preference though. i have seen a few cars on here running these numbers so if someone has a known combo i would love to hear it. as i said i have been reading this site for years so i have searched and searched and searched. i have some time to ponder the direction and make some decisions then i will buy and build her.

sorry for the long post and the sad beginning i figured it best to explain the whole story and where this car is going. i will keep them shorter in the future and on topic. i will put some pictures up of the car in the next day or two so everyone can see the beginning of this deal.

thanks in advance for all the help and ideas

mike

i should probably add that i am 30 years old so street driving a car at this power level wont be as big a deal as a teenager.

 

Sorry to here of your loss
As for your car and goals. I think an LS based engine would be a good way to start. And its easy to produce the HP goals you have in mind and keep it reliable. Just think how fast newer camaros are and how much more they wiegh than the third gen.
Good luck with the build

 

sorry about your loss .
your idea is kinda what i was going for in my car. i did not have a big budget. and 3 years later i have a 86 iroc with a 468 590 to the wheels. and with stock wheels it looks completely stock with the exception of the cowl hood. should be a fun project.

 

jhainer
you nailed it that car is amazing. would you mind giving me some details on that motor. also what does it run. i think 590 to the wheels is a bit more than i will be looking to put out. great job on the build.

mike

 

the motor it's a 73 hipo car block punched 60 over to make the 468. it has keith black 12.5 to 1 pistons the heads are 1969 427 closed chamber rectangular ports. which brought the compression up to 13.5 to 1 in the old car a 73 vega it ran 10.4 then grandpa tubed it and put a different motor in so we never got to know what it would run with hooking up. but there is a pic he has of this motor putting the whole car on the wheelie bars and all 4 off the ground. since i picked up the motor i changed the intake to a 454r intake and had the carb rebuilt it's an 850 jetted or flowed not a big person when it comes to carbs but they told me it is now a 930 oh and the heads have been ported and polished. grandpa was an old Detroit street racer. the motor has been in the familly for almost 20 years 17 of those he owned it now 3 i have. I have yet to take it to the track. I just pulled the t-5 i had behind it out and put in a th350 went to summit yesterday and picked up a umi crossmember but for some reason it still doesn't hit the trans mount so summit is shipping me a new one monday. then its to trans lines and firing it up. here is the progress from the day i bought it to the first car show withthe big block the car didn't even have belts on it my son took it to the show. to last summer when i had it ready for a show and the oil pump went out. so the car came back apart and i went through the motor. smoothed and painted under hood.

oh and all the work including paint was done by myself and my son.

 

Sounds like its going to be quite a nice car

 

jhainer

that car is flat amazing. the motor has quite the history of being a nasty big block. way more than i would ever need but it has got to be a blast to drive. thanks for the info on it.

drifter
i sure hope so. i am excited to start wrenching on it and get it there but its a slow process. hopefully in the next few weeks ill have a blueprint laid out and just start buying parts and building it.

sorry i have not gotten pictures up yet my computer is not liking me right now. trust me its not much to look at right now anyway.

mike

 

An alternative to the 468 idea would be to run an LS motor, or a supercharged SBC. Either of those can also get you into the 11.5 area, and do it without causing the handling/complexity issues associated with a big block. My 403 cube LS swap should put me into the mid/low 11s, still get 20+ mpg, and be reliable enough for a daily driver. Any number of NA or supercharged LS applications can get you to your goal, and do it without being overly complicated. Likewise, a supercharged or turbocharged SBC can as well, although turbocharging does add a level of complexity.

Reliability is generally a matter of choosing the right parts. You need engine parts, as well as a transmission and rear end that are capable of handling your power levels. The beauty of forced induction is that it also allows for a much more mild cam, which relieves stress on your valvetrain. Start reading up in the LSx swap forum about the details associated with swapping one into a thirdgen, and read up on ls1tech about various combinations from guys running in the 11s like you want to do. I think you'll find that the LS offers a million ways to get you to your goal, and most of them will give you superior reliability to the stock thirdgen motor.

 

jim85

i have been researching the weiand 142 blower this week alot. i read a deal on a gm goodwrench 350 long block built up to finally include the 142. it looked like a nice set up. i really like the idea of the new gm components on the bottom end. i had some thoughts on a version of what they built that might make the hp needed. i thought about nitrous but the long term cost of filling the bottles makes me think the blower would be more cost effective. i plan to race it two nights a week threw the season.

gm goodwrench 350 long block 190+ hp ( i hear alot that they run 250 actually)
blower type cam not sure on the cam retrofit roller type
afr street aluminum 195cc heads with 75 cc combution chambers 033-1036J
1.6/1 roller rocker arms
weiand 142 blower 6500-1
holly 750 blower type carb.

i think it would be a fun build and could be a good little build up. i have read great things on the afr heads. this would get me my wow factor at car shows and should get to the 11.5 et.

i agree the weight of the bbc could pose some issues.

ta performance talked about the lsx. i researched this option and really do like the fuel economy of the engine and im sure the reliability would be great. my issues with the lsx swap is it appears to be a very expensive swap and very complicated. that said i do need to research it a bunch more before i rule it out since it does appear to be the best swap for these cars. new technology tends to give great results and better fuel economy. the expensive side came from me researching the parts right from hawks. im guessing if i did more leg work it would bring the price down.

thanks for all the great ideas guys keep them coming.
mike

 

suspension wise my thoughts are

turbo 350 crossmember with spohn torque arm. SKU # 310
lower control arm relocation brackets SKU # 210-S
lower control arms SKU # 206
panhard bar SKU # 106
rear sway bar SKU # 923-Rear
eibach springs 1.25 inches lower SKU # EIB-3-Pro
lakewood shocks rear 50/50 drag Item # 620-40301 (jegs)
lakewood struts front 70/30 street strip #620-40500 (jegs)
sub frame connectors from spohn SKU # 503



tires and wheels

im looking at 17/8 chrome iroc wheels with the 4.5 backspacing.
fronts will be somewhere around a 205-225/40/17 street tire
hoping that 275/40/17 mickey thompson et street radials will fit 672-3743R jegs
i need some advice on the fitment on these if anyone knows for sure i dont mind the bfh approach just need to know where to aim.

rear end im on the fence
i have read a bunch that the 7.5 rear will hold up to 11.5 with no transbrake if you build it up.

i was thinking
moser c clip 28 spline axles 718-A102804
moser c clip eliminator 718-9200
detroit true track 357-912A317
moser diff cover #718-7105
richmond gears 3.73 836-49-0007-1

im thinking i should do it right and just get a 9 inch moser but the 2800.00 is a big chunk if the rear built will hold up.

transmission
im looking at jakes performance stage 1 350 rebuild kit.
3000-3500 stall converter
trans cooler
b&m megashifter 130-80692

ok im off to research the lsx swap in detail.

thanks guys any advice is appriciated.

mike

 

Personally, I'd stick with 15" rims to increase the sidewall.

 

That GM goodwrench motor sucks. It's got an all cast rotating assembly, 2 piece block, flat tappet heads and door-stop heads. It might make ok power, but the heafs will limit you big time. To make the power you want reliably, I would be looking at a forged rotating assembly in an SBC or going to an LS. Stock LS rotatung assemblies can handle the power reliably.

 

five7kid

i didnt even think about that. thanks for the heads up. i saw a thread researching lsx swaps that appears you drive a grey ls1. i think that is the car i saw at bandimere last year with an ls1 that made me think just how cool that swap is. not sure what show it was since i went to like 12 or more shows last year. (my daughter loves that place) any thing i need to think about trying to run 11.5 up here.

jim85

i agree on the goodwrench block and researching the lsx swap more i think that it wont be much more than building the small block i was looking at there. im really leaning the lsx route. so much involved in it i have been reading for the past day and i have not even scratched the surface.

so far my biggest concerns are the wiring. i have a lack of wiring in the car as it is since the guy i bought it from had stripped it pretty good. he says he only took the tbi harness. looking it over i noticed that there is nothing plugged into the c100 bulkhead i believe is what its called. its the large port behind the brake booster. and the tbi ecm or pcm is completely unplugged and laying on the floor. the dash is out and missing currently so i can see the current wires that are there for the dash. it seems quite light from what im used to seeing behind a dash. one large bundle running from fuse box across dash to the passenger side. i have the 88 gm service manual and the dash wiring diagrams are pretty poor in there. im gonna keep reading and try alldata for some better dash diagrams on monday. if anyone knows if there really only is the one large bundle of wires behind the dash let me know.

thanks
mike

 

here is one picture of the car when i bought it i have some others but i need to resize them

 

here are a few more the dash is concerning me more than anything else. i was just out looking at the wires it looks like i have 2 large plugs at the passenger side and 2 smaller plugs over there. a few in the center and the heater and ac control box is plugged in and hanging. i have a large plug right at the steering column and then the convience center/ fuse box on the left side of column.

i was looking at what i believe is the c100 bulkhead. nothing is plugged into it but i did find a harness that is just unplugged but can be plugged into the passenger side of it. i have a few pictures ill post here in a few minutes. im wondering what goes into the drivers side of the c100 if in fact the harness i found does go into the passenger side.

thanks

 

so i figured i would update this incase anyone was wondering what i decided.

i decided on the lsx powered third gen. i sold the 88 i had and bought a 91 rs last night on ebay. i know its a bit sketchy the owner of the car has a few posts on here and about 40 on ls1tech and i spoke to him on the phone before buying.

the car has a ly6 bored to 408 dynoed at 450 to the wheels in texas. t56 6speed. it has a comp cams cam and ls6 intake. among many other things.

ill take some pictures when i get it up here from texas.

i appriciate everyones input and i do feel the lsx was the way to go. when i priced it to build the one i had i was double what i bought this one for. hope it all works out.

mike

 

It's always cheaper to buy one that's already done, as long as it's done the way you want it. It's the right way to go unless you're nutty like me and many of the other folks in this forum who do it for the fun of doing it and not just for the final result. Enjoy your new car. It should be a blast.

 

yeah i really wanted to build it from the ground up. i just couldnt bring myself to spend that much more on the build to get about the same car. only things i would and may change are the rear end to a 9 inch instead of a built 10 bolt. and i may swap to an automatic 3 speed for consistency at the drag strip. im just really struggling on that swap since the six speed is the untimate build/sports car. in my opinion atleast

 

It boils down to where you use it more. For me, it's got to be a manual trans. I don't care if I'm consistent because I don't bracket race, and I want to enjoy driving the thing.

 

That would either have been Super Chevy or a day the stick shift class was running. Click the link in my sig for pics of the cars.

You should be able to get into the high 11's with an LS set-up. There's a guy running a '99 'Bird that hasn't even changed the intake manifold. With a TSP MS4 cam, their mail-order tune, TH350 with a brake and a lot of stall (forget what exactly it is, ~4000 I think), 9" rear, seats removed with a driver side only race seat, and a 6-point, runs 11.8's at Bandimere. Shifts at 6000 RPMs.

 

it was definetly super chevy then i have only seen the stick shifts a few times.

how consistent can you be with the t56. i have never owned an automatic car and think i will be super bored while driving if i swap this 6 speed out. the car is intended to be bracket raced every weekend so consistency is key though.

i talked with that guy a bit last weekend that kind of sealed my purchase on this car. i couldnt believe how fast that was with very little done to it at this altitude.

 

A stick can be pretty consistent. It's a little harder to launch consistently and more likely to break stuff than an auto. But, I've still had some pretty decent packages with it.

At this point, my stick car is pretty much stock with headers & gears (hasn't even been tuned, other than having some emissions stuff tuned out). So, it's quite a ways away from 11's.

 

ls2 crate