Rick Orem

Word to the wise to anyone traveling into Aberdeen Proving Ground (APG)
I have witnessed a young fella driving a nice older Monte Carlo with Md. Historical tags on it being greatly harrassed at the front gate of APG.
I drive my Pa. Antique tagged '81, and '82 camaros to work alot, and am awaiting the same treatment.

The guard told this fella that he has witnessed him driving this so tagged vehicle more, or less as his daily driver, and will give him a citation if he is observered coming onto post again with this particular vehicle.
It is a young APG police force that are at the front gates, and I was told by a chief in Fed. Fish, and Wildlife office, that if there is anything they can cite you for, they will, so be advised.
I think it is overkill, and most of the Md. police force, ie Md. State Troopers, that I have talked to said they do not enforce such laws, and alot of them have such tagged vehicles.

The language in the different states pertaining to historic/classic/antique/street rod tags is very broad spectrum, and usually can be beaten in a court of law. You can state that you are driving the car to a repair facilities after work, or such, and/or test driving it after your own repairs.
I think that would hold up in court, but I am not an attorney.
It is frustrating to witness this guard absoulety giving this young man in this Monte Carlo a severe bashing in my opinion for just this tag usuage on his Md. Historic tagged vehicle. He did state that his daily driver was in the shop, and he was saving up money for the needed repairs, and basically it seemed that this was his only alternative transportation, so he thus was driving that. The guard litterally gave him a lashing as I witnessed from one of the other entry lanes going into Aberdeen Proving Ground.

In ending, just be aware that some areas seem that they are going to enforce these rules on the certain tag usuage. Just be certain that you cover yourself when out on the road, be it midweek, or just our for a couple of days driving.
Examples:
A.)You could say there is a group of custom/antique cars gathering after work at a certain place, and thus you are driving it to work, or such to participate afterwards.
B.)To, and from repair facilities ie, even if you have a buddy with a car lift, you could state that after work, or such that is your place of destination for repairs, mods. or such.
C.)Tell the SOB to get real, and go after some REAL EVIL DOERS, speeders, drug dealers, rapists, bankrobbers or such!!
Delete the last, ha!
Anyway, watch yourselves, and read carefully the rules pertaining to your state on the use of the tags you have on your vehicle.

Happy cruising!
Rick

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

was the monti purple?

Legal Disaster

iTrader: (6)

that really sucks that they were hassling the guy. I have been thinking about tagging my car as an historic also to dodge inspection/emissions. I think i'm going to do it anyways. I live in pg county where they definately have bigger fish to fry than the guy in a historic car, but you never know what lies around the next corner. I don't do a whole lot of driving, but I do do my fair share of late night driving, which kind of scares me away from historic tags. right now my car is in the garage, working on getting it up and runnning again, will be my daily driver when it's back on the streets though, at least until i get another one or a bike, whichever may come first

Good info here, thanks for the heads up

maxx

You really shouldn't abuse Historic/Street Rod tags.

It hurts the rest of us who actually use them for the right reasons.



If you abuse it you deserve to get caught. (The fact you are acknowledging that you are going to abuse it makes you deserve getting caught more).

If your car can't pass emissions, fix it. You're only hurting the rest of us.

Legal Disaster

iTrader: (6)

I never said I can't pass emissions, I just said I'd rather dodge them. I wouldnt abuse the tags, i clearly stated that i don't do much driving, but most of which is at night, who's to tell me where i am coming from,just it could be coming home from the shop, or my girl's house. nobody besides me can depict where i'm headed or where i'm coming from, so for you to say i deserve to get caught is just not right. I may tag it regularly, I'm not sure yet, that's why I said that I was uncertain on which type of tag I am going to put on my vehicle. please follow through reading a post before you decide to comment.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Oh give me a break… the whole traffic/vehicle system is a travesty and an abuse. There are so many arbitrary or worse, stupid rules, laws and fees that have nothing to do with safety or the community’s/society’s needs. It isn’t much more than a means of revenue and source of income for part of the government and a group of largely worthless people. They even know it and have created a court which in most areas has very little connection to what our justice system is supposed to be with no connection to the rest of it so you really can’t go too far in questioning it’s decisions. In most cases a real appeal isn’t possible at all and it doesn’t operate by the basic principles of the rest of the legal system (where is “a preponderance of the evidence” when you get a ticket? “innocent until proven guilty?” the right to confront your accuser?...).

How about the emissions program… if the goal is to keep emissions down, who cares how you do it as long as you read correct numbers? Instead there are rules about what you can and cannot have, do and cannot do, and “testing” on newer cars doesn’t have anything at all to do with what your actual emissions are, they’ve just been simplified to the point that they guarantee that a profit is made. Even more incredible, areas that haven’t been able to show a profit with emissions testing have suspended it, and in a lot of states it isn’t even consistent across the state, it wasn’t in MD for the longest time (I’m still not sure that it is)

OTOH, Yes, I have historic tags on one of my cars, and no, I don’t use it as a daily driver. I believe that it’s yearly mileage adds up low enough that I can technically insure it as in storage (BTW, why do I have to have tags and insurance to store a car?)

If the person that he’s talking about is the one that I think it is, the car isn’t his daily driver, he has a little blue with silver flamed S10 truck that is his daily driver, he’s probably just enjoying the Monti during the decent weather, and of course he manages to get harassed by some idiot that is throwing the weight around of whatever badge he’s wearing…

Rick Orem

Yep, it was the purple Monte!
Rick

Rick Orem

First off, I personally know at least 3 dozen police officers that either belong to car clubs, or own such antique/classic/historic/streetrod tagged vehicles.
They all have told me they drive them whenever they feel like it, and their prospective law enforcement agencies usually do not enforce the driving more on these so called tagged vehicles.

If somebody does get these tags just to get by on inspections, and such, then shame on them. My 2 camaros are better now, than ever when they were new, and that is why most of the states don't require such inspections.

We are planning a "drive your custom" to work week, and the cops could have a field day if we just let it ride. I personnally have too much money in my cars to just see them sit, and drive "on occassion".
The law could be misinterpretated by an over aggressive officer for lets say you were participating in The Hot Rod Power Tour, or if you were just driving to another state in the vehicle you are proud of, and like to show it off alittle.

I aggree with you in not abusing these tags, but I'll be damn if I am going to sit back, and be totally dictated to, especially when I see an over aggressive officer, after the guy in the purple Monte explained his situation.

I have 18 years in at APG, and was totally harassed by one of these officers about 5-6 years ago, and I not only went in person to complain, but I had a full written report in how I was treated, and detained for politely asking a question in "Why don't they open a 2nd lane for ID inspection in coming onto the post. The officer was later FIRED !
I just feel this was total overkill, and the officers response was too agressive for such a minor infraction.
I am not an attorney, but am one of the trustees with the union on post, and have been before the "High Archy" on alot of issues. I could say I am undefeated in my contacts with upper mgmt./law on issues, but I pick my fights, and if I think I am right, I'll fight to the bitter end.

Get REAL! After the explanation, the officer should've just said, "ok, but I don't want to see this car onpost as your daily driver, and just let it go. You would've thought the guy in the purple Monte just drove over an infant the way the response I witnessed looked.

Rick

Rick Orem

Hey Mark,
Yea, I think we are talking about the same guy in the purple Monte.
If he should need any assistance on post, let me know.
I followed him to his building that morning in my '81 camaro, and talked to him. Pissed me off alittle.

Some good responses were posted, and I don't abuse my cars neither, and for the most part they sit.

Thanks for the response!
Rick

DON 88T/A

Does anybody inspect your car when you apply for historic tags?
It says the car cannot be altered too much from stock...but I wonder if anyone actually checks it out?

I will be getting them soon for my 88 and would like to swap in a stroker motor down the road....not having emissions would allow for a fairly wild set-up...I still would only drive the car on weekends/track so it would not be a daily driver...

Ed1LE

iTrader: (39)

No, there's no inspection for historic tags. You just can't put them on a car that you drive daily. I think you need to provide additional documentation though for antique tags. Not sure, in MD you can get historic, antique & street rod.
Regardless, if this officer saw this guy in the monte drive in for let's say the third week straight, it's in his right to issue a warning. I hate to say it but it's true. And historic tags doesn't make one exempt from repair orders if it's an obvious safety issue or for things like windows tinted too dark, etc. If ones only car or primary form of transportation has historic tags, they're abusing the system and putting others at risk. I think since MD decreased the age of cars from 25 to 20 years too, there'll be an increase in this abuse. I'm not preaching, and I'm not saying I agree or haven't tried numerous times to beat the system, just stating the facts.

rsrookie

If you're just putting in a beefier motor, than it can still be tagged as historic.After all, it's a Chevy motor in a Chevy vehicle.Mild modifications are OK. If you choose to put a blower on it or tub it or add a roll cage, then it would have to be tagged as a Street Rod.The same usage restrictions apply.Nobody inspects the car per se, but if Johnny Law pulls you over for, say a brake light out, he's got full reign and can issue an Equipment Repair Order.See MVA Form #VR-096

Rick Orem

As far as a beefier engine in a historically tagged Md. vehicle, that is fine. When I had my camaros in Md. I asked at the MVA that very question, and they said "Mildly Modified".
As long as you don't have a blower for instance, sticking up out of the hood.
Hey all, enjoy the cars, summer is quickly coming to an end all too soon.

Rick

Legal Disaster

iTrader: (6)

just so everybody knows, I made the decision to tag my car regularly as i am trying to get a night shift job and don't want to worry about being pulled over at 3am repeatedly

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

He pissed you off a little or the situation pissed you off a little?

I’ve talked to him since this happened and not only was he just enjoying some of the summer weather in his “toy,” but his daily driver truck legitimately in the shop, the just rebuilt transmission blew up. Whatever the deal was he ended up borrowing and renting another car just to drive to work a few days just because of the hassle, which I think is total bullshit. It actually bothers me worse that Bernie is just a college kid that's working up there for a vehicle engineering internship and i'm sure that he can't really afford to deal with this hassle

Ed1LE

iTrader: (39)

Bernie posts a lot on montecarloss.com ( I used to have an SS myself). His car is wicked (nice small block & a 6-speed) and he's pretty cool. Sounds like in this case, he has a legitimate excuse but occasionally certain cops just have a hair up their *** or something.

FIRECHICKEN

iTrader: (3)

SIMPLE FIX: Get a decorative lisense plate cover that will hide the word "Historic" on the bottom of the plates. No one will catch it!!


Now if you wanna talk about the bullshit you have to go through to ride a motorcycle on base we'll talk!!

Rick Orem

Let me know if you need the motorcycle card to get on post.
I know several people that have been riding motorcycles for over 40 years, and never miss either Myrtle Beach/Daytona Beach bike weeks, riding on their 2 wheelers to those locations, and they said the requirments at APG are total Bullshit, and refuse to take the trouble to go through all the hassels. Thus their 2 wheelers sit at home in the garages.
If the fella in the purple Monte gets harrassed again, let him know I'll go before the Fed. Magistrate with him.
I got a speeding ticket awhile back, behind the gates, by the ballistic range (area closed to gen. public)when testing my one camaro for a high rpm oil leak.
I went to court, and beat it, and was very pissed at even being stopped, and they actually had radar set up back there!
Do not trust Col. Rooney (ATC commander on post). He thinks he is the reincarnation of Atila the Hun!
I may drive my yellow '82 Z to work tomorrow. Drove the grey '81 thursday, and I am gunning for a guard to say something to me, and hopefully he will write me up.
What I will do is shut off my engine in line at the gate, and give him a polite education.
Tell the purple Monte owner he should win his particular case in court.
Shame we have overaggressive officers on post though.

Rick Orem

Update:
Upon entering APG this past thursday, a very polite young guard at the RT. 22 gate said he just loved my car ('81 camaro).
He said he has a '68 Mustang, and I told him great car, and to hold onto it, for they are just increasing in value.

Anyway, my point being, is that I think there may be one over aggressive officer at the front gates of APG. I know they are looking for front license tags on Md. tagged vehicles since they asked me what state I have my car registered. Told the Pa. and they said oh, ok.

Just don't want it to seem that it is ok to abuse these tags, but having witnessed this crap, and the young guy in the Monte Carlo was a pure gentleman. His explanation would go far as a college intern, the cost of living, and such, and the fact that this was his only alternative to getting to work for a very short time while repairs were being made to his "Regular Driver".

Sorry everyone, this pissed me off, and overaggressiveness has no place. Nor does abusing our tags, which this was not.

Hey all, enjoy the cars, the rest of the summer, it's going by too fast.
Rick

ZZ4 86 Z28

iTrader: (1)

i sort of abuse my historic tags...i use it as a daily driver but only for summer and winter breaks. getting them was the easiest thing, and now i dont have to pass emissions tests. my total mileage for the year is still low enough where i dont feel like using it as a daily for like 4 months out of 12 is a big deal. but this summer, im saving up for another car instead of more camaro parts, so i can get some gas mileage.
mark, do you still talk to bernie? and do either of you guys still work at that rockville store?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Naw, neither of us are up there anymore… but yea, I talk to him and Mike (the owner of Rockville speed) all the time. I my case about a year and a half ago by some freak twist of fate I ended up going back to being a full time computer guy (systems engineer) for a defense/intelligence contractor. Bernie is finally finishing up college and with the internship in Aberdeen just doesn’t have the time to put in at the shop.

You do know that the shop moved up to the front row of stores, over by where the chicken basket is…

ZZ4 86 Z28

iTrader: (1)

yea, i havent been recently though. i stopped with my car, the only money i put into it is gas and repair. im using all my funds this summer for some sort of beater. civic or corolla or something. thats why i kinda disappeared from the site, makes me wanna buy everything

Rick Orem

Financial Hardship:
If anyone can get intouch with Bernie with the purple Monte Carlo, and it would be totally up to him, let him know that his particular case in using his Md. Historically tagged car could have alot of merit in court.

Now I hear that he had to rent a rental car just to satisfy the probably ONE over aggressive officer at APG.
This I feel is a shame, since you all said Bernie is an intern, and on somewhat of a limited income.
His only financially feasable solution to his daily driver being repaired, and/or saving up for said repairs, was to drive the Monte Carlo.

Sorry for dwelling on this subject, but again, talking to several police officers, they all said without hesitation that his particular situation was total "bullshit" with this one officer. They all said the same in not abusing the tags, but there are exceptions, and they all said also, that they don't inforce this unless it is a rediculous, constantly seen specially tagged vehicle.

I'll let it go now. Just had to vent.
I will be driving the '82 Z/28 today, and maybe all week.
Will be doing brake work at a buddies after work on the thing, since he has a car lift in his garage.
A little fly on the ointment.

Yea everyone, I am pissed at such a assinine, overaggressive cop, jumping on an intern with a limited income, and thus causing him a possible financial hardship in renting a rental car.

Rick

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I sent him an email...

mustangslayer86

Whoa! There's an idea!!