What kind of a chance do you guys think I stand aganist a stock 97 Camaro SS? I believe they had 305 horsepower stock about the same as I have now. So should 1/4 times be close?. I am almost positive that I cannot hang with a 98-02 Z28 or SS. Thanks

 

from a dig at the strip, i think u have him unless he has drag radials or slicks and can drive

13.5 is pretty quick, most of them LT1's with good drivers are 13.7's at best

 

I looked up a few 4th Gens and here are the numbers I got.

93 Z28-275 hp 14.0-14.1 at 98
94-Same
95-Same
96 Z28-285 hp 14.0@101
96 SS-305 hp 13.9@106 [Trap seems high]
97 SS - 13.8@102
99 SS-320 13.6@103
2000-2002 SS 325 hp 13.5@107-13.4@105

Got all of these numbers off the internet........ So 93-95 shouldnt be much of a problem. 96-97 would be close it looks like. 99-02 seems like they would beat me.

 

from my experience from what i see on the track, LT1's can be high 13 second cars bone stock. fastest i seen is 13.6's

the SS and Z28 are practically the same car. same 300hp LT1. they dyno 260-270 at the wheels stock

ET wise, i think u have them stock for stock unless they got drag radials or slicks.

on the street, from a roll, they will walk u up top

LS1's are even more superior. dyno 300hp stock at the wheels in alot of cases. good for high 12's with drag radials and good driver. can trap 108mph, some more some abit less dependin on driver and transmission. i've seen many bone stockers go bottom 13's at 107. on the street they will walk LT1's easily so they will pull L98's pretty good too

 

L98's and LT1's are a better comparion I guess. L98's have more low-end torque, Lt1's have more high end horsepower. L98's run mid 14's stock. LT1's ususally low 14's. The newer LT1's high 13's. I have seen Stock WS6 Ls1 cars get into the high 12's stock...but never an SS same engine and all so it should be the same. Ws6 cars were usually a little quicker for some reason.

 

Actually, the LT1 makes more torque and for longer. They both start making torque at right about the same rpm range. Stock vs. stock. The L98 will drop off at right around 4k, due to 17 inch long runners a.k.a. Tuned Port Injection.

Yes and no. L98s can run anywhere from high 14s/low 15s for the 87-88 heavily optioned GTA models, to low 14's (14.2-.3) seen occasionally in 91-92 Z28s. However, their trap speed is always low, around 95 mph usually, imo.

A 2.73 geared LT1 of any year will typically run a 14.0 - 14.2 at around 98 mph. A 3.23 or 3.42 geared LT1 of any year will typically run 13.7 - 14.0 at about 100 mph. The year differences in LT1s really don't mean anything, as the ONLY thing the WS6/SS cars had over regular LT1s was a simple CAI, and it was negligable in the SS due to it's location directly over the intake.

The power ratings were total BS, designed to keep the corvette guys happy. LS1s were underrated as well for the same reason, take a look at their stock power ratings. An LT1 of any year should put out about 305-310 HP at the flywheel.

Typically the fastest LS1 cars are low optioned (light) Formulas with 3.23 optional gearing, or a 6-speed with a good driver. For the simple reason that they're lighter.

The WS6 and SS packages were basically appearance packages, and added no real HP. The SLP option package did however add a few ponies.

In the race with the '97, I think you'll be pretty much even through the 1/8, but he'll start pulling then, and have you by a few lengths at the quarter. If you keep going it'll get real nasty, real quick.

 

Hmm the reason I though the L98 made more low-end torque is beacuse the 90 model with true dual exhaust made 345 lb ft of torque. Without true dual exhaust the 1990 350 made 330 lb ft. Then I looked up the LT1 for 93 and it said 325 lb ft. I have numbers from mag tests for 350 Camaros ranging from 14.4@97.7 to 15.3@95 so I guees the driver and the conditions also have alot to do with it. You said the Lt1 and LS1 cars are under rated in power what about the L98 Cars are those underated as well?

 

The L98 does indeed make those numbers, however the LT1s even in 1993, made about 355 on average. The TQ was underrated just like the HP.

The driver and conditions are everything. The numbers I quoted for the LT1s and L98s are in ideal circumstances with good drivers and the engines in good tune. They can be improved upon with better air and better drivers, as the fastest an LT1 has ever gone bone stock was 13.4@104 with a 1.93 60 ft on factory tires. It was a '95 6-speed Formula with no options and one HELL of a driver in near perfect air. It had 2000 miles on it at the time. I have also heard a few stories of 91-92 Z28s running 13.9s with great drivers and excellent air.

The L98s were not, as far as I know, underrated. Their dyno numbers at the rear wheels will match up to what they were rated at the fly when you calculate for drivetrain loss. LT1s usually dyno at around 260-270 RWHP. They were rated that at the fly. LS1s usually dyno around 305-310 RWHP, they were rated that at the flywheel.

 

It all Depends on the driver. My dad has a 97 Camaro SS but he only ran 14's..

Now this guy got a stock 1997 SS into the 13.7's
http://www.mindspring.com/~addie/camaro/timeslip97.htm


They have a little more than 305hp.. I'm pretty sure its 315 or 325.

 

correction... the fastest an FBODY LT1 has ever gone was the quoted 13.4... the fastest a factory equipped LT1 car has ever gone was 13.0 at 108mph in a 95' 6speed Vette

and i can back up the LT1 dyno #s as my own 93' Vette 6speed dynoed 266RWHP and 306RWTQ (thats about 312hp and 360tq at the crank). the car was completely bone stock and had about 75k on the clock

 

My 97 WS6 has run 13.003@106.9 pretty much stock, I think it had a K&N in the stock air box, and I used a hypertech power programmer to raise the rev limiter (the programming never helped the car so I didn’t use it).

The fact is that the cars should be evenly enough matched that it’s going to come down to drivers rather then cars

 

Well yeah, I meant Fbody lt1. I know the vettes have gone faster..

And 83crossfire, was your car a stick or auto? what was the 60 ft and 1/8 mile?

 

6 speed, can’t you tell from the mph?
60’- 1.7x, my best on the GSC’s was a 1.71, but I think that run was around 1.76-1.78
1/8- I’d have to find the timeslip or my timeslip log, it’s been a while…

Oh, and I also experimented with a few things and found a lot of what people consider basic facts, did, infact not pan out, like I found completely removing the stock muffler/tailpipes actually slowed the car down. Even with a big shot of N2O it aways ran faster with the stock muffler/tailpipes when without, suggesting that it isn’t that restrictive even though it is quiet…

 

.. Just to think that ive read alot of material on big block muscle cars only running low 14s.

TPI sucks.. they should have just thrown a carb on it with a lumpier cam and we could hand with the better of the LT1's

 

Really, the TPI engines had similar cams to LT1’s, but heads that didn’t flow as well and much lower compression, so you’re fighting an uphill battle if you’re comparing engine to engine no matter what you do for induction. The advantage comes in that the 3rd gens are probably 200-400lbs lighter then the 4th gens for the most part, so you can make up for the weaker engine.

The funny thing is that GM actually knew how to build a high compression fuel injected engine that lived on pump gas reliably prior to this (the LU5 had 9.8:1 with iron heads and ran fine even on 87 octane) and just didn’t do it with the L98 and LB9. From a performance perspective, I always felt that the TPI setup was a step backward from the old crossfire setup which would have run faster with the same cam as the later TPI’s, but an evolutionary step forward… but in a lot of ways the crossfire setup and TBI in general got a bad stigma for no good reason (at least from a factory performance standpoint, it does have it’s limitations, and here I’m opening a major can of worms)

 

Yeah, I figured from the trap it was probably an M6, but figured I would ask anyway.

Those are excellent numbers, I'm hoping to do something very similar with my car. Hit 12.9s with tires, gears, catback, free mods and tuning.

 

You have to keep in mind that every dyno is different. To date I've dynoed at three shops and everytime my numbers have varied by 20-30 HP/TQ and those are all Dynojets. Mustang dyno's are even lower than Dynojets. With that said, I dyno'd 232 HP and 336 TQ with 160,000 miles, Flowmaster cat-back and K&N's. On the same day, same dyno a '93 Z also auto with just over 80,000 miles, CAI and a Flowmaster cat-back made 260 HP and 306 TQ. Just adding SLP Shorties bumped my numbers on the same dyno to 253 HP and 362 TQ. I've since switched to a different shop hence the lower sig numbers but the car still runs the same times, MPH and now has 205,000 miles.

 

Of course, the numbers I quoted are the widely accepted averages for stock cars, not a few specific cars at a local dyno or something like that.

 

Just out of curiosity, have you ever dyno'd YOUR car? I was simply giving you a real world situation. The same day I got my sig numbers, my buddies bone stock 98 M6 TA made 298 HP and 319 TQ. You can go by "widely accepted averages". I'll stick to real world situations where the conditions are a little more controlled, same dyno, temps, D/A, and so on. I believe it makes for a better comparison. I've seen plenty of LT1's make your averages. The only 91-92 L98 I've seen dyno is mine and it made more peak TQ, just like the factory rating says it should. It's no big deal!

 

I really figure that the car could have gone a faster with some soft track tires like some real slicks and just duming it out of the hole, as it was, it required driving it out which was very hard on the clutch…

 

oops

 

Mine will be dynoed on friday for free by a friend, I'll post back up with my ratings if you're really that interested.

 

So in order for a 350TPI car to stay even with an LS1 325 hp car the bolt ons are not going to cut it? May need to dig deeper and do a cam swap and maybe some better flowing heads would you say?

 

A bolt-on only L98 will get raped by a stock LS1. In every way , shape and form. You might have a slight chance in a 1/8 run if you're on slicks and he's on street tires and can't drive. BTW, all LS1s (yes even "Vette" motors) make 350 fwhp, about 305 RWHP.


Your biggest restriction is the intake. Get an HSR, do a cam swap and have it tuned, along with the bolt-ons.

 

Ya thats what I thought....