five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Hear it all the time. Hear it here, too.

I thought what Jeg Coughlin said Sunday after winning the NHRA Pro Stock season championship was interesting:

"To win the first championship under this new Countdown format is really neat," Coughlin said. "The pressure has been intense, but I've gotten accustomed to handling it over the years, especially last year when I did a bunch of bracket racing. That's some cutthroat stuff, believe me." {emphasis added}

Yup, us bracket racers is a bunch of wusses. . .

1bad406

iTrader: (1)

especially the big money bracket races he did. Those are no joke. If your not .506 on the tree or better and dead on, might as well go home.

a/fool

cutting a good light is important in any class. but who likes to lose because you went to fast?

atc3434

iTrader: (4)

Its just a totally different type of racing. Either you get it, or you don't. Or, maybe you get it, but you don't care for it. Defintely tough stuff. Real racing... well, I guess that depends on if you're racing to see who's got the quickest RT, or who's got the power...

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Reaction time...

Yeah, I lost all the sense of fun from bracket racing when I saw a Chevette win at Bakersfield. It was all about reaction time because the fast cars have to sit and wait while he drives to the end of the track before they chase him down.

I really enjoyed test and tune, though. That is where my fun is at the track. Other than that, I can only really enjoy racing illegally. Sometimes the tracks will have a heads up or grass roots event where they do heads up racing, but it's not regular.

Too bad. It's ironic, but I think the reason that there is so much illegal racing is because going to the track is not the same. If the track was heads up, I bet more people would go to participate. They could always set it up by modifications like dirt track. That keeps the big money from ruining the fun down in the bomber/street stock class.

Anyway, it's just my two cents...

a/fool

i'm not knocking the skill involved with bracket racing, and the plentiful chances for seat time, which i'm sure jeggie is refering to. but it's not racing. it's more of a side by side time control run, and the one with the best package advances to the next round.

KWIK84

iTrader: (5)

Bracket racing is as much real racing as anything else. Requires driver skill, to cut a light and drive the top end, plus some good tuning to be bale to keep a car running consistent is just as tough, if not tougher than trying to run the fastest. Try stacking up #'s in changing weather conditions some time.

Why do you think that the index classes are running enough electronics to launch a shuttle?

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

You know you're being played when the other guy makes a 13 second run @ 75 MPH....

a/fool

no real tuning involved, just keep the shoe polish handy, and if you are in one of the "super classes" a throttle stop adjustment is all thats nessary.

KWIK84

iTrader: (5)

You can't be serious???? Have you ever tried to gauge a vehicle coming up on you running 20-40 mph faster than you are?

Adjusting the trhottle stop IS tuning, and knowing how your car is reacting to the changing conditions. Just because your not changing jets and timing after every pass doesn't mean that there is any less tuning involved.

a/fool

yes i have, i've have bracket raced plenty. and i never said it wasn't hard. it does take skill. i just don't consider fiddling with a delay box, writing on your window with shoe polish, or adjusting a throttle stop, tuning. a race by definition is a contest of speed or to reach a point first. that isn't the case in bracket racing.

Trevor86TA

Put up another vote for 'it is racing'. I love the competition that comes from bracket racing. It takes the emphasis off of the racers' bank roll. It isn't he who has the most money wins, it is the racer who has the most skill that wins.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

oh, you still have to get there first. only case where you win and were 2nd to the line is if the guy in front of you breaks out. i know you know this, but your statement eludes otherwise.

a/fool

you are right, i should have said "that isn't always the case in bracket racing."

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I’m not going to argue that it’s not racing, it definitely is, and it definitely involves tuning and driving skill, _but_ that doesn’t mean that I really get it.

I get more out of going to TnT sessions and refining the car tune and my skills to the last thousandth essentially racing against myself than bracket racing. The fact is that I’ve gotten that down to the point that when I post the times I ran in whatever I dragged to the track that time I usually get a pretty consistent “BS” contingent, but I’ve never been able to translate that skill to winning a bracket race, and honestly, I find it hard to pay attention to it long enough to make a serious effort. Most of the bracket races that I’ve been entered in have been club events and it’s always someone with a LG4 camaro, no gears and 16miles of rubber under the car that can throw a brick at the gas pedal and run a 15.779 23 times in a row that wins. That and I usually can pay attention to it for a few rounds, and then do something stupid like “I wonder if I would pick up a few hundredths if I tried _____?” on the second last round and break out trying it.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I figured this would either get ignored, or pounced upon. Guess it was the latter.

Regardless of the type of racing, there is some sort of field leveling going on. Stock/Super Stock classes, it's what equipment you're allowed to run, and then they are constantly adjusting your HP based on what somebody has run - plus, unless you're running someone in your class, it's just a bracket race. The time index classes are all based on consistency and performance data. Even the pro classes have restrictions such as what ignition you can use (Pro Stock), how many RPMs you can turn (TF, FC), and of course weight. Ask Schumacher and Sampey about weight. . .

A few years ago a neighbor of my sister's came to the Div 5 ET finals. He was an old-time horse racer, and to him "handicap" meant "weight". It took him the longest time to accept why one guy left first, and how someone who got to the finish line first could lose, etc. Finally, a guy sitting in front of them in the stands turned around and said, "Think of it as chess at 100 miles per hour." That seemed to help - there is strategy that has to be executed before and at the start, and between the start and finish line.

If someone runs a 13.0 @ 75 MPH, it might not be that they're playing with you, but rather that you cut a bad light and/or can't come close to running your number.

Cutting a consistent light is important in any type of drag race, but you see RT's all over the place in top fuel racing. Occasionally you'll see a holeshot win, but it isn't uncommon to see a .1+ light by the high qualifiers in first round, and yet they breeze to a several-car-length win.

The MOV in the Summit ET finals in Pomona were: Super Pro, .0161 (~4 feet); Pro, .0007 sec (~2 inches); Sportsman, .0028 sec (~5 inches). Super Pro Bike was the only one that was more than a length (~9 feet). That's close racing, no matter how you slice it. Phil Burgess, editor of National DRAGSTER, had this to say about Pomona: "There was history right down to the E.T. bracket bombers racing for the Summit national championships as bike rider Micheal Nash repeated as champion and was followed immediately by Greg Dreher, who became the second repeat winner in the series history on the heels of his 2001 championship. Their accomplishments are in many ways equal to or perhaps, in some ways, beyond those of the Pro champions. Both had to first be among the top points scorers at their home track, then outlast large fields at their division Finals, then travel west to an unfamiliar track and outlast six other talented racers who had also beaten those long odds. It's tough enough to do it once, but to do it twice and, in Nash's case, back to back, is simply an amazing accomplishment." {emphasis added} So, even the people jaded by hanging out with the big boys can be impressed with us.

a/fool

ok, i consede on this fruitless arguement, even though i still don't see it as "racing".
one more point though, i feel alot of you guys bracket race because you don't think there is alternitive, and therefore you will defend it to the death.
but...i dare say, you would race heads up if there was a class for you, and i would even go so far as to say that, alot of you guys spend more money on your car than some class racers do.
think about that for a moment.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

As long as you qualify it with "a lot" and "some".

I think you would have to concede that you can go faster for less money in bracket racing than you can in class racing. Or, that you can be competitive for less money in bracket racing than you can in class racing.
----------
Who likes to lose, period?

I tell people, "Racing is fun - winning means you get to go back and have more fun."

a/fool

ok, and i'm sure that is why it is so popular. i would be more competitive in a stock 1978 ford ltd station wagon, than i would in a 9 second camaro too.
but instead of just using your imagination to come up with ways to make your car faster, wouldn't it be more challanging to have a set of rules to follow and race heads up?

AlkyIROC

Unfortunately what the non racing community sees on TV is always the pro ranks and all they ever see is a heads up race. Many don't understand the concept of a bracket race because the Stock/Superstock classes are not televised. If they can't understand bracket racing, try to explain the x.90 super classes or even Comp Eliminator racing to them.

Comp Eliminator is really an index bracket race where you're allowed to break out but if you run faster than .500 under your index, your index gets bumped lower.

The super classes are also bracket racing but every car is trying to run the same ET so to speed up or slow down to the index, they use throttle stops.

I was also watching the bracket race results from Pomona noticing how good the reaction times and dial ins were. I wander into the stands every now and then to listen to the spectators commenting on the bracket cars running. Every time I hear, "that's easy to do" and "anybody can bracket race" I just laugh. For those of us who have gone down the track in a real bracket race, not just a heads up street legal race, we know just what's involved in getting a good light and figuring out a dial in. It's not as easy as it looks. As for a heads up race, invest as much money as you can to run fast within the limits of what the rules allow and you have a field of cars all running the same ET's. It then just becomes a driver's race since all the cars are the same. That may work well on a road course race like the old IROC series but not in drag racing.

a/fool

http://dragracecentral.com/DRCStory....r2007#indextop

you can go quicker than .5 under without resetting the index. and as far as everyone running the same e.t. that doesn't happen,

Profootbrake

Bracket racing may not be what some people call real racing and some people just don't get it but for some its a great way to spend some time and have some fun with friends at the track. and maybe if your lucky win a little money

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

personally, bracket racing just never interested me much. i guess thats mainly due to me watching the 33" tubbed out cars running 12's. and i see the same car running the same number hundreds of passes a year for 10 years. but i try to realize the guy behind the wheel is interested in running the exact same number pass after pass. whatever floats their boat i guess. lol

i am more of a headsup racer, mostly because i am more interested in working on the car and making it faster than the next guy than i am with getting a perfect reaction time and hitting the brakes just right. i like a strict set of rules for a given class, and i like to go as fast as possible using those rules. its more of a tuning challenge, i would say. bracket racers really dont mess with the mechanicals as much, because they can change dial-ins, electronics, throttlestops, etc. to accomodate weather changes. why change carb jets and stuff when you can just change the number your trying to run? why worry about traction when youve got 33" tires on your 400hp car? lol

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Consider these two statements. The first makes an assumption of anything goes, just get there first. The second talks about "rules" - obviously, the first is leaving out some ugly reality.

Since some sort of limiting rules have to apply, what's the difference between the bracket racing rule that says you can't go faster than you said you would, and the class rule that says you can't do certain things to your car to make it faster?

As for "challenging", climbing Mount Everest would be more challenging than class drag racing. Making it as a starter in the NFL would be more challenging than class drag racing. Why aren't you taking up those challenges?

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

I like bracket racing because I can be equalized with a faster car, and it comes down to driver's skill instead of driver's wallet.

I dont like bracket racing because some guy with a grocery getter can run 16's all night long and win. Stock sucks!

I despise the throttle stop classes because its less on driver's skill at driving and more on driver's ability to set his electronics.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i will say bracket racing doesnt require you to get to the line first. all your trying to do is get the best "package". getting to the line first could mean you went TOO fast. so, by defininition, ill agree its not racing. however, it is challenging and fun for alot of people, so i would say its not a big deal not calling it racing.

headsup class rules arent DIRECTLY limiting the cars performance. those guys get a list of parts/setups they are allowed to run, and they can go as fast as they would like to, as long as they use those parts/setups in the rules. basically, they will NEVER let off the gas or hit the brakes at the end of the track. they only want to be the first to the line.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I would contend that there is more skill involved in determining your dial-in than there is messing with your mechanicals at the racetrack. Certainly true where I've raced, where weather conditions change from round-to-round, as do car conditions (there's a big difference between how the car runs when it's been 8 hours since the last round, and 10 minutes - I've done both).

I don't class race because the simple, car magazine things I've done to my car either wouldn't be legal or would make it uncompetitive. Conversely, if I did do the things allowed by class rules to my car, it would be a race-only car - and I can't afford that luxury.

NHRA Stock and Super Stock racers have my respect, because they both have to adhere to class rules (which is only heads-up when paired with someone else running their class), and must be good bracket racers.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

most of the skill involved in class racing takes place in between races, not at the track. its all about building the car with the best combination of parts, setting them up perfectly, tuning the engine perfectly (retuning at the track), and setting up the suspension to make it hook on a limited tire size.
oh, and still cutting a light.

i agree, a car can move off its number by a decent amount over the course of a day. but, again, there is guys that have been doing it for 30 years with a stack of log books waist high.... they know exactly what the car will do as the day goes by.

anyways, this has been a pretty good read for me so far, its always nice to toss around thoughts/ideas on a touchy subject.

AlkyIROC

Yes and no. Running quicker than .510 under the index gets you a CIC hit for the next round. Going faster than .6 under the index during eliminations gets a permanent CIC hit which can affect all the other cars running in the same class. Many Comp racers get very angry if you kill their index like that.

With the 163 or so Comp classes, very rarely will it be a true heads up race.

As for all the cars running the same ET in a heads up race. If one racer finds some way to dominate and runs considerably faster that the rest of the cars, then the rest of the racers either find a way to do the same thing or know they can never win the heads up race.

Back in the early 80's ProStock racer Buddy Ingersoll appeared with a V6 258 CID turbo Buick engine. He dominated the class against the 500 CID NA engines and NHRA promptly banned turbos in ProStock. He complained saying his engine is more "stock" that the 500 CID engines everyone else was using.

There are Pro Street racers who have given up the class because it's gotten so expensive that it would be cheaper to build a ProMod car to street specs to run in the same class.

Heads up running the same ET? ProStock. Top 16 qualifiers are all usually within a 1/4 second apart. Under the body, the cars are all basically the same with a few minor variations. they're maxed out to what they can do under the limitations to the class.

----------

Drag racing:

The most complicated way to get from point A to point B.

The only motorsport where you spend more money to spend less time in the car.

BlueBeast

Its racing, its fun, and I cant wait till next season. I never used to understand it and then I started helping out one my friends build his super pro car. I love it understand it and theres nothing more I want to do on the weekends then go to a final round. I also love the heads up stuff to.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Good ol' Buddy...

My Buick guy...

cp87GTA

If you think class racing is heads up, think again. I was class racing when bracket racing was introduced. There was never more than a few cars in a class back in the 60s. SOOO we had to run other cars, with a differant index. Can you say spot? That's exactly what happened . Talk about cheaters!!! There were plenty of them. Run a camaro with a 350/300 hp againt a chevelle with a 427/425 hp claiming to be a 396/325hp and see what happens. You had to run off of the national index. How many local felows had cars that could run close to the national index? Not too many. AND IF you went faster, you were disquallified. It was just as tough back then. I didn't like bracket racing and quit in 1975. I started bracket racing again in 2001, and spend every weekend I can at the track. Very, very little cheating going on in bracket racing. It's run what you brung. If you can't cut a light, you WILL be on the trailer. Just drinking beer and watching your buddies.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Bracket racing is a form of racing but it aint racing by racing standards that we all know in every other motorsport....roundy rounds...who wins..the guy that gets there first, mud drags, pro series drag racing, swamp buggies...you name it, who crosses the finish line first wins the race. Bracket racing is a spin off of racing that used to allow the typical joe to compete with the corporate sponsored rides since it turns it into a best package race, not fastest, but can predict and run what they think they'll run.

Think bracket racing in the no box and box catagories is a place you can run your average street car and compete....think again....your running a slow factory car against purpose built $30-50K purpose built race cars designed to run the same number time and again..sure you may get lucky once in awhile, but if you seriously think you can run with the big dogs consistanly in your factory form camaro...wake up, aint gonna happen, and that's just the brutal facts folks. it takes money to win in any motorsports...even when the concept of making an even playing feild like bracket racing was designed...money still wins the greater majority of races.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

You should see the car that won the Street class at Bandimere this past season. . .

1bad406

iTrader: (1)

of course a factory street car can't compete with the high dollar bracket cars, thats why they have a footbrake class for no boxes and no transbrakes. Cut a light and know where your car is at the stripe and you can beat any high dollar bracket car.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

enlighten me...over the top pushing every class rule to still be considered a street car? or a standard type car running in street class?

We had a guy running our track that entered all classes, Top, mod, street...he'd take his box out to run modified, keep it out to run street and would dial the same et his competetor ran and would do his best to cut a light on them, or just rely on the simple fact normal street class cars have a hard time running exact dial ins.

The technology out there for the no box and box class cars is just to abundant, and every tom **** and harry that races to win, i mean truely races to win money, not points takes full advantage of everything available...it makes a huge difference in win percentage per round in the top two classes. I tried my car straight outta street class, i did well and it made me a better driver, but it was not until i invested alot of money into this car that all of a sudden i finished final 4 every race or won it...you will not win in the top two teired classes with a small budget period...unless your a god blessed driver and have luck on your side, i challenge anybody thinking i'm crazy to run the class in your street car and it'll only take you half season to figure out my point. You'll either quite cuz the cost to run without winning is making you mad and broker, or you'll reinvest in your tool to revamp it for the task at hand.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

This is a contradiction though....bracket racing is supposed to bring everything down to a level playing feild....we all have to cut a light, we all have to run a number and we all have to drive the stripe....how you do it is upto you. but the 3 basic principals are still the same. They broke classes down to apease the puriest (footbrakers) since i'm sure they cried unfair advantage with the invention of the transbrake...when the reality of it, if a guy sets his car up knowing it's gonna be a footbraked rig...they can make it every bit as deadly/predictable as any transbraked car no matter if you top bulb or bottom bulb...it's all in car set up and if you have the money and desire to make it happen. I've been there footbraking and i know first hand i was every bit as deadly old school as i am with a button...all about investing in the car.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

A ratty, primer '64 Falcon with your basic 289 4bbl. He runs DOT slicks, that's the only concession to "race car". Oh, he was also the 2005 NHRA Div 5 Summit ET Sportsman champion.

Probably my sweetest win was against an 8.35 sec '95 Camaro Pro car - He was coming up on me at 140 MPH, and I still backed off before the stripe - and took the stripe with room to spare.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Our street class was dominated this year by a newer dodge mini van and new dodge durango...was rather funny watching the other guys that used to be the big fish that have made their cars faster for fun and fought trying to slow them down to stay in the street class...makes no sense to me doing stupid stuff like that.

cp87GTA

90 0/0 of the cars that run no box at our track couldn't run on the street without many$ to do so. My Bird only ran about .01 quicker with the transbrake. But my lights were more consistant off of the button. My pockets were also a lot lighter, that first year. From breakin parts, they should call them trans breaks. Heres a no box bird.

AlkyIROC

We had a special race at the end of the year on a day I didn't attend. It was a dual race and the first one was a closest to the dial race. 2 time trial rounds then one elimination round to see who could run closest to their dial without breaking out. It was won by an old F150 pickup truck. It even beat out all the throttle stop cars.

The second event was a king of the hill race and I think he won that one also.

Throttle stop and delay boxes don't make a bad driver a better driver. They do allow a slight advantage but don't guarantee a win. Stock eliminator racing doesn't allow either and those guys are always getting killer lights by footbraking and most run very close to their dials. Like any other car, as much as you would like, they don't always run exactly the same every time.

I've gone farther into rounds more when I raced my daily driver truck than I ever had with my race car. If I really wanted to win more events, I'd go back to racing a 15 second truck but there's no thrill of the speed.

cp87GTA

AMEN

IHI

iTrader: (1)

This is a perfect example of money wins races, esspecially in the class Stephen built his car for. Pro is hard enough, you can be .020 on the tree and be off the number .01-.02 and win....jump up into box class and you need to typically be .015 or better and hit the dial with a low .00X or your packing. As you progress up the ranks equipment is that much more expensive due to what it takes to win, and when you run Top class, you pretty much have to make perfect passes, every pass...the cars and drivers allow zero room for error-it's just that simple.

Winning races comes down to personality too, and i'm sure the guys that have been around have seen it.

1- your test and tuner, the guy that just enjoys running the car, enters the race for fun/to have fun and no care if he wins or loses, he's just having fun. They have more desire to get a fast slip than anything else.

2- the old school mentality that raced before index racing was invented and is from the school of all out..they'd like to win, but are hard headed and refuse to drive the finish line so they dial wht they think it will go flat out, and run it flat out.

3-the guys that really love to race, but without sounding degrading...they just dont have what it takes to ever win an event no matter what they do. Theses are typically the super nice guys you enjoy talking with at the track when you see them, but at the same time feel bad since you know they'll never do anything out there and are just wasting their money....

4-the obsessive compulsive, these are the types that typically do well. they get obsessed with racing and know what it takes to win races and make it happen, often the drivers are normal and are easy to beat, but their equipment is soo much better than most of the guys running, it's hard to beat the car. They expect to do good and typically do, but have a realistic grasp on what it takes to win....winning money typically takes a back seat to the pride/dominating feel of winnning...they dont hate the money, but the drive to be the best almost superceeds the wants of money, cuz they realize a person will never break even running the normal points bracket race, you need to travel to race for big money if you expect to make money.



Either way, the bracket race concept was great years ago, but the simple fact of the matter, it's hard to beat money....money will win 90% of the time.

AlkyIROC

I can't think of a category to put one of our local racers in. He's raced for years in the same car. A 1964 Sport Fury. Car runs in the 13's. Open the hood and it looks like it hasn't been touched since 1964. Wires wrapped together with electrical tape etc. It even has an old MSD 5 ignition box. Paint on the car is still original and faded. The car is classified as a race car. I don't think it's been on the street in 30 years. The car runs very consistent and the driver has been doing it so long that he knows what it runs and can cut a good light.

Many of the other racers hate getting up against him because they know there's a good chance they're going to lose. He doesn't do anything special to his car. He just goes racing and goes many rounds with the same vehicle he's run for many years at the same ET he's run for many years.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

LOL, Ive seen guys like this to at different tracks when you talk to the locals, and there are always exceptions to the rules in any scenario but realistically at every event i've ever been to/raced in over the years; by and large there is a slight personality difference you pick up on when you talk to who's winning and who's losing...maybe it's cuz I deal with people all day everyday and have for years so i can pick up on things because i have to, but there is noticable traits to how certain people carry themselves and how they perform.

It'd be no different if they had a way to handicap football....alot of folks like football, love it actually, and if given the chance to participate due to a handicap provision they'd be all over it...but it would not take long to establish who actually is a player, and who is just out there to be out there. Many things in life are this way, but a motorsport is just an expensive hobby no matter how you look at it, but sadly many guys get tunnel vision and do stupid things to go racing....credit carding parts and making minimum payments, mortgaging homes, equity lines of credit, etc...people who want to win think money will make up for lack of given talent and is just does'nt happen, but tunnel vision makes them think so...if i just had this part then....if i just upgrade this, then.....I'm sure if a person did a survey of hobbies resulting in divorce...motorsports would be king of the hill. Worst part is many of the guys i race with are in the exact boat above-own nothing, never will, and keep digging a deeeep hole for themselves....for nothing.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Actually, I think drinking has that honor. . .

There are two other guys from our track that come to mind with this latest discussion. Racer A was the 2003 NHRA Summit ET Super Pro national champ. Racer B was the Super Street runner-up at the Mile High Nationals this year. They both run regularly at our track in box ET classes. However, in our "club" series, Racer A runs a 20-second '78 Olds Delta 88, and Racer B runs his 20-sec tow truck - they were 3rd and 5th in season points this year doing that. Good news for other racers is you can't dial quicker than 14.00 in that class, but nobody likes to get lined up with either one of them. These are guys that let go of a button in their "race cars", but have to leave between the 2nd & 3rd bulb in their slugs - being able to make that transition has nothing to do with money.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Most of the racers i know, not all, but most partake in adult beverages themselves so it all runs together, but you know what i'm getting at, racing is a pretty selffish sport unless the wife/GF is really into it, takes alot of time and money to be a champion or contend for a championship...there is'nt a a person out there winning box/no box that just builds a car and does'nt touch it all season...aint happening so i dont wanna hear any bs stories from anybody, a winning ride takes some TLC which is time away from loved ones if they're not into it which puts strain on relationships...anyways...LOL!!

There are guys with god given talent in our sport, put the guys in anybody's car that's worth a crap and they'll go far. Our multi time track champ has piloted my junk a few times and worst finish is 2nd place...he has been doingit long enough, has a serious passion for the sport, and a natural talent for it. but he fits my obsessive compulsive class of personallities, everything he owns is perfect, no junk, no good enoughs, everything is perfect and in it's place all the time.

Wanna talk about winning then you can get into pit environments...i used to pit with freinds, with their kids running around, drama going on etc...it takes you out of the element. i started watching the players between rounds...all by themselves, relaxing. I started pitting with the group that continually does well, and next thing you know my program gets alot better...all the while the drama unfolded everyweekend for my old pit freinds and they performed just as well as they ever did...no consistency what so ever in their performances.

Takes alot to be on top, money, effort, talent, and luck...and there are exceptions to the rule like most things in life, but take luck out of the equation and what do you have left to work with.

cp87GTA

I accually do much better when I go to the track by myself. I don't pit next to my buddies, but do visit them a few times during time trials. After the shoot out I kinda just stay to myself unless my son is there with me. I'm 58 years old and build my own cars from front to back. Don't hire anything out except machine work. Not a very good driver, but I'm doing what I want to before I leave this place. My wife complains sometimes because of how much I spend doing MY thing. It won't do any good to save it all, and not have any fun. Sure as heck can't take it with you. Building an alum headed 406 for my GA this winter. Also going with a glide next year, cause starting line ratio is way too high now. The track champion pits right next to me. Him and his dad. Jimmy rarely visits anybody, and he's in the money every week. He don't win every week but he takes home some money every week, unless he breaks. He has been the pro class champ for the last 5 or 6 years, and now sportsmans for the last 2 years. He's been to the bracket finals 2 times in the last three years. I did manage to beat him this year, I had .009 light and my car was on with a 3. He did beat me out of the shoot out money that day also, he was on with a 1 and I had a 2. Going to be a long winter but I have lots of work to do.

KWIK84

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, Jimmy can be tough to beat. Seems like his elky is almost more consistent than the camaro. I can remember racing against him when he was still driving the thing to the track.