i got these off a friend, they came with a ladder bar setup but he already sold that off. anyone seen this style installed. i cant find the part number so i cant DL the instructions. as of now im guessing how to put them in. not quite sure were im supposed to cut the floor. i am thinking of just fabbing my own instead of hacking the floor up!


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more pics, i understand how these are postioned against the sub fram to the rocker, but the connectors seam to short.

 

Competition Engineering C3017

No instructions for this kit are available for download.

 

these look different tho.
http://www.competitionengineering.co...c3012_part.jpg

 

That's because your link is for the C3012

This is what you have.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

 

oh, duh! thanks.

 

i would love to see these installed. post pics when done. they dont really make any sense to me. i see how they weld to the subframe etc but they do look short etc. its cheaper to just buy 2"x2" steel and make your own. wat size tubing/thickness are those?

 

how much fabrication is involved in making your own?
do you just need a straight bar between the two ends or is there more to it than that?
also, do you have any pics i could see?

 

ill get them in there time to dust off the plasma cutter! im mocking in the cage atm. ill try and post some pics of the whole process and post them to here. i got the install instrutions from comp. they really arent to bad to install, u have to cut the floor and stitch the conectors to the floor pan, witch is good for exhaust clearance i supose. the material is prolly about 1/8, and the crossmember is standard roll cage material. not sure im at work.


reddragon, on my old car i fabed them outta cage tubing. ran them flush with the rockers, then braced from the rockers to the cossmember subframe, on the back ran a tube to both control arm brackets. pretty easy, just gotta notch some tubes and know how to weld. i have no pics, and the car is long gone.

 

i i got "CE weld in subframes" off ebay for like 60$ but when i got them... they looked nothing like any of these pics. it was basically a 2"x2"x.095" square tubing with a welded 1/8" steel bracket at one end. 2 holes drilled and was mean to mount with the trans bracket bolts. it was cr@p so i redesigned them welded the one end to the front subframe all the way up at the wheel well and ran them striaight back into the rear subframe. cut out the floor and tucked it up into the floor/rear subframe. then welded it all up. effectively ties the front and rear subframes as well as the floor. its not the best looking but it works great. i actually just finished up welding sum supports outa roll cage tubing i had left over from my cage instal.

really not that difficult. my car is no show car, i build cars to drive them and beat them but i like them to look nice.

come up with a design and execute it. is alot more cheaper to build your own than buy them.

 

got any pics blackbird?

 

i'll post pics today. dont flame it bc of how it looks its solid. and i dnt run the stock exhaust, i run dual 3" with xpipe. also knotched the stock subframes for the exaust to tuck up against the floor.

 

these are pics i just took tday. i just finished up last nite. these 3 are of the passenger side. shows the knotched subframes in pic 2. pic 3 is the support i added that connects sthe subframe to the rocker panel. tubing is 1.75x .134".

looks kinda crappy but its solid. mig welded with a shitty mig. but its really solid. square tubing is the "CE" subframes thats 2"x2"x.095"

 

these are the driver side. slightly diff then the passengerside. bc there was a huge rust hole about 2 ft long on the door sill/rocker panel and i repaired it but it didnt seem like the strongest part. tubing is same as other. knotching allows me to run headman LTs with 3" xpipe and turndowns with no loss of ground clearance.

 

driver side again. 1st pic shows the thru floor subframe part. how i cut into the floor and welded it up. and goes right into the rear subframe. shown in pic 2 is the subframe tucked up into the subframe and welded completely around. also shows the 1"x1"x.125" steel with brackets that ties the LCA mount to the rear subframe.

3rd pic shows the new cage i installed a month ago. the cage ties directly to rear subframe at where the subframes connect at the base of the hoop and the tranny tunnel bars mount directly to the jester tunnel mount tq arm bracket. the rear bars are mounted right at the rear shock towers which is the strongest part of the rear subframe. effectively ties rear subframes, and tranny tunnel, subframes are the better cuz they are directly tieing the front and rear subframes and floor together.... and now the rocker panels and front rocker support(driver side)

 

i thought about notching the sf like that for exhaust, but was worried of weaking it. i was thinking of adding a gusset to span the gap around the pipe.

looks pretty stout. makes me motivated to get off my ***, and get mine done. to freakin cold here. just wondering, i run the same headers, what type of bends did u use to route yours, and what crosmember/trans do you run?

 

it would weaken it if you wherent to support it like i did with my subframes. i have no worries now. car was more solid than ever with the subframes installed before i even reinforced them and added the cage. the stock subfframe where the trans crossmemeber is is prob a 20gauge steel. its cr@p. by boxing the thin steel with thicker steel and stitch welding it to the floor i prob made it stronger than before. i was also thinking of makeing a bracker etc to connect the notched subframes once the exaust was up... but it would have to be bolt on so i could dissasemble to get the exhaust down. i run the stock auto trans crossmember with poly graphite bushing. trans is a beefed 700r4. if u look at the stock subframe its just layered thin steel up until before the trans cross memebr bolts. where the trans member bolts are the steel is super thin, like 20gauge and is spot welded every 4-6". im amazed these cars dont just rip apart.

its its still and im siked to see how stiff its gona be after reinforcing it ALOT(all new welds u see) and with the cage/strut tower brace im gona make.

lol cold? ive been out everynite for 3 months in the snow doing it. coming in every couple of hours to let me feet thaw. get out there and get it done!!

i used headman Sbends/header extensions 3" into the summit universal xpipe that goes directly into the 3" force mufflers. seen in pic. the sbends are cheap. at like 35$ and are mandrel bent. they fit perfect and i have a free flowing LOUD exhaust thats good for over 650hp

 

cool, i got the same extensions cept they are the ball sockets might have to steal your exhaust routing!
damn, i guess i got no exuse to be slackin since i got a garage to work in. your a die hard workin in the snow! im gonna get some propane for my heater atleast, then start rippin and tearin to day. be back with some updates.

 

yea i didnt kno the headers had ball socket flanges when i bought the extensions.... this was my 2nd dual exhaust design. i totally forgot. i got the correct ball socket ones in a box waiting to weld them on. i would say steal it but u wont be able to run this unless u cut the stock subframes. thats how i was able to do this and make the exhaust very simple. post sum pics when ur done. id like to see how u did it

lol yea im in a "tent" but theres no heat. just keeps the rain off of me, i still get wet if i lay near the sides of the tent which is the only place or room there is around the car lol. makes it that much more sweet when its done

 

ill prolly notch the sf. as of now i just have the extensions running to some glasspacks, but it sounds like open headers still. whats the temps like there? here its freakin fridgid cold!
how do i attach thumbnails, instead of these hudge pics?

 

its ummm.... 20 out now... so itll be in the mid to low teens when im out there tnite.

with my old exhaust setup i acutally got the muffler caught on a driveway and it ripped the muffler off, i left it off till i got home but it was acutally quieter with the muffler off (this was with the afterburners) mine pretty loud.

u have to reply, go to "go advanced" then scroll down to manage attachments and upload the pics. pics have to be less than 1MB in size and u can only upload 3 at a time in each reply post. i usually save my pics as email attachements like 800x600 pixels and they usually fit here at the max

 

1. k got some work done tonight. started to install the ladder bar crossmember. first pic is of the axle center line marked on the garage floor. this was takin with the axle 6in above bottom of rocker as the directions state. i used a plumb bob for all measurements.

2. pic 2 is the line scribed across the floor boards 34 1/4 from axle center line.

3. this is the driverside floor board where i cut along the crossmember centerline. then cut and bent tabs.

 

1. pass side floorboard

2. side shot of crossmember set in place.

3.back shot of crossmember. this is where i got very pissed!! i flip to the next page of the ins. it says be sure the crossmember is 32 1/4 from axle centerline!!! WTF!!! the first page said 34 1/4, so im hoping the 2nd page is a typo, i have to call comp eng and get this cleared up. its looking like a waste of a night, and alot of reneforcing missplaced cuts!! im thinking i was supossed to only bend the tabs toward the rear of the floorboards, thanks for the detailed instutions COMP!!

UPDATE: call comp, dude said it is 34 1/4, 2nd page was a typo.

 

triple post! feel like a noob
i started to mock up the cage, found some cancer on the pass side rear wheel well. and a shot of the spohn trans crossmember.

 

ouch! thats a nice bit of cancer.... still at least u dont have to care what it looks like since it'll be hidden. the crossmemeber doesnt look off really. but i would have cut the floor alil tigher to the crossmember bar, thats gona be a pain to weld.

now this is where i had a delema... the 1st pic in the last post, the one of the cage. i thought about mounting it where u did just like a few other ppl have done so it doesnt stick out past the rear quarter panel. but if u smack that hump u have the hoop sitting on and look at it from the bottom, thats just hollow thin 20gauge sheet metal AKA our whole floor. the rear subfram is welded to it but think of that as a camels hump over the strongest part of the rear. to get ultimate strength if u go right below that (look at my posted pic) thats where both rear subframe/rear LCA mount/floor are welded together. instead of welding to the thinner steel "hump". it will tuck in nicer where its at now but move it toward the front of the car about 4 inches and u'll be at the strongest point. it will stick out alil but it still looks bad@ss.

1. shows the hump u installed on and where i put the plate. thats where the rear subframe/rear LCA mount/floor connects to the rocker panel.

2. shows another view as well as the rear bar. thats the strongest part on the rear subframe right above the rear spring pocket/shock mount. most ppl go back about 12-16" but on the passenger side they weld to the THIN @SS stamped steel bracket that is welded to the cargo area that mimicks the contour so they carpet just lays flat. above the shock mount is the thickest steel and stronger than any other part.

just some insight i guess, install how u want but i found these to be the strongest parts of the car and the best parts to tie together for the cage. looks good tho, liked to see it done

 

the floor is bent back away from the crossmember atm, it wont be hard to bend back to stich it to the crossmember.

the main hoop is just set in there, i dont want to install it till the sfc's and ladder bar crossmember is fully miged in, cause it has roll bar plates integrated.
tomarrow ill hopefully get the crossmember sorted out and the connectors thru the floor and tacked to the crossmember.

the cancer doesnt worry me, i am goin to tub it out anyways.

 

got some more done last night. sorry, the pics are kinda crap.
got the frame supports run up to the rocker boxes.
managed to get the crossmember lined up and tacked in. i opted to move the frame supports/ladder bar mounts inward of the stock lca mounts, so i could mini tub the car and run a wider wheel/tire combo. now i just need to finish the welding and try and save whats left of the floor.

next is the cage install, but ill make a seperate thread.

 

cant really see much. post sum better pics if u can. is the frame support just tacked to the crossmember? is that where it attaches?

welding sleeves huh .... u should see my arms.wrists from welding spats. lol

 

yea, got more pics, slightly better then the drunkin ones from last night. i dont have a camera,just my phone so, 2.0 mega pixs is all i got.

1.this is the dr side rocker box brace to the trans SF.
2. pass side.
3.is the drivers side frame rail and the ladder bar C.M. joint.

thats my buddy welding, i was hoping it would make a brighter pic. the rears are welded in yet btw. i welded the pass side, but sh*t if ya got some gloves save a bit of flesh..lol

 

couple more angles

 

looks good. make sure he welds that huge plate in the first pic on ur last post to the floor. i believe thats why its there. same concept as a roll cage plate.

the pass side pic. 2nd pic first post... is that box for the exhaust to run through? whats the inside Dimensons of that square tubing? idk if i like that. that would limit the exhaust size if u were to run stock setup

 

thats a floor joist for the cage to anchor. that might fit a honda single pipe thru it, lol
im planning on running the cage through the floor,i might just sandwich a 6x6 plate to it.

 

oh thats a good idea for them to incorporate it into the subframe. im actually impressed. still i wouldnt bolt it to them or cut though the floor to mount them. i would trust anything bolted that sees stress like. LCARBS, subframes, rollcages, etc. i would weld the 6x6 plates for the cage to the floor and then bolt it though(did the same thing for my rollcage, the trans tunnel bars and i bolted it thought to the jegster TQ arm tunnel brace to reinforce it with the cage and spread the load over the WHOLE tunnel etc. that would be the best as far as strength. still tho im impressed. nice setup from CE.

 

this is were i ended up anchoring the drv door bar. its almost perfectly lined up with the sfc plate. i had the same idea in mind with bolting them together after welding the both in. all in all its a nice sfc kit, ties front to back and side to side. and the ladder bar mounts are a plus. only draw back i say, is all the cutting.

 

that door bar looks kinda inward and not forward enough tho... hmm i guess if its right above the SFC plate i would have done it that way as well for strength. hows the clearance with your legs? where u gona put ur left foot? and its relation to brake pedal?

did u change position of the hoop? any reason for the change in door bar height mounting on the hoop in relation to the cross bar? did u grind the welds on the hoop? dont if u havent.. if tech sees grinded welds u automatically fail. u cant clean the welds at all.

sry for all the questions i just want to kno ur reasoning. eventually im gona do my door bars as well. but i would have dont the door bars at the same attachment as the crossbar/trans tunnel bars in my pic. so all ends converge at one point for strength. who made the cage?

 

yea, i wanted it on top of the sfc,should be pretty solid. its not bad on clearance i put the seat in and it clears my leg pretty good. i didnt know about not grinding, i was trying to clean it up cause of blackend sh*t. guess ill have to go thick with the primer there. the hieght i set by the sw 10 point diagram in the instrutions. i managed to put a slight bent in the door bars to clear the door handles. im not to worried about this cage, i fig id screw somthing up, being my first.

 

doesnt look all that bad. rules are that the shoulder bar/door bar has to run between the shoulder and elbow of the driver.... urs is def a bit high and thats gona make it tough getting in and out of the car. but to each his own, top of the hoop has to be within 3" of the top of the drivers helmet i believe too. lol def coat the sh*t outa it if u dont like the welds. i even used POR15 on mine thats a thick paint. yea watev u do just dont grind the welds to make the look pretty cuz they will fail u. just cover it up with foam padding or something. im more about functionality than looks. i drive the hell outa my cars so if its strong but looks bad i dont really care

 

, next cage im goin chromoly! mild steel is more of a pita for me to weld nicely. i am thinking of adding the swingouts from comp, to the door bars. the bars are pretty high, i was thinking that when i installed them, but thats how sw racecars illistrated them, oh well. the main hoop is to low for my liking, so it prolly wouldnt pass a close inspection. main reason i bought it was to stiffen the car up.

 

lol mild steel is easy as pie compared to chromoly! chromoly can only be done by TIG and is very difficult. too much head or if it cools too quickly it will crack etc. its a pain in the ARS!

when i install my 2 door bars u can bet your @SS im goin with swing outs as well.... without them would be insane. post pics of the hoop i wanna see how its too low. ur prob fine. i can fit my knucks barely above the bar and the headliner. thats why i bought it too. just to stiffen it up and since i had to drop the tank for the highflow pump i might as well had done it. well see if i run fast enough to actually need it

 

i know about having to tig it, i plan on getting a tig welder with my taxes. ive heard its alot easier to work with, i donno. either way chromo is the way to go i guess. cost alot tho.

im at work, so i cant get a pic up, i will tonight. its way low, i measured twice, but some how i cut it to short, its like 3 in lower then the midlle of the roof steel. might not look bad once the headliner is in there. but ill have to slouch a bit to keep my helmet below the main hoop. as for the door bars, i think comp sells them for $30 or so a side, very worth it. its pretty hard to get in and out of my car when its 2 ft off the ground with the cage in there lol.

i hear ya on the tank, i pulled mine to switch to my v8 carb setup last year, i just scrapped the whole unit in the end, i fabbed up a fuel cell case and mounted a plastic summit rear sump fuel cell. it sits in the stock possition, but half of the cell box is above the trunk floor. i can get some shots of it if u want, its not the prettiest but it works and it prolly made the trunk area stronger,lol.

 

u got a part number for the door bars? i kno in jegs they sell door bars that are bent alot and would fit perfectly and allow easy access for a Daily driver. but they are not NHRA legal.

haha yea post sum pics of the fuel cell. i was thinking of one but i decided to keep the stocker. and of the hoop

 

http://www.competitionengineering.co...?CatCode=13067

legal to 7.50, ill get some pics of them after work. i got side tracked with notching the sub frame for the exhaust.

here is the tank (i made it 100% removeable) , and this is how F'd the main hoop is.

 

the door bars are from CE or were u talking about the swing out kit? i was talking about the door bars themselves.

i cant really tell with the hoop i guess it doesnt show the actual distance between the hoop and the ceiling. it does look alil low. hows the subframe notching coming along?

lol idk wat to say about your fuel cell lol... its kinda hard to see. looks easy to remove tho.

 

yea its a kit that you add to your exsisting door bars. all i got is a camera phone atm. im 6'3 so my head is almost level with the bar. with a helmet on i will have to slunk down in the seat, oh well.

after work im picking up some 1x2 square stock to gusset the sf up. im planning on running them in on the top of the floorboards. ill get some pics up tonight of my exhaust and sub frame. got my mini starter today too so i might fire it up if my camcorder works and the nieghbors dont call the cops.

the fuel cell case thing is recessed into the trunk around 6 ins, it works well, carpet will cover it up so i dont care how it looks really. i had to build a lid to act as a firewall due to nhra rules. its kinda fun filling it up thru the trunk to.

 

yea lol fun. i would like to see how ur gona run them on top of the floor boards. yea im 6'1 i kno what u mean about height.

what type of mini starter did u get? i got a summit mini... its a high tq one good for something like 11:1 compression and only cost me 100$ all billet too.

yea i figured the carpet would cover it up. doesnt look bad i just like the look of the fuel cell and i would hate to cover it up . isnt it hilarous how thin the steel is on these cars... i dunno how they just dont buckle.

 

i got a csr for $50, its used but worth 200+ new.

 

heh... height... I'm 6'4" and have always owned a t-top car, which was usually OK (once I hit a dip/bump rolling through an intersection too hard and put my head in to the hard t-top which surprised me...), but when I got a hard top formula, the first time I went to the track I had a bigger problem. I put my helmet on as I rolled up to the lights and found that I had my helmet/head stuck between the steering wheel/roof. I literally had to get out of the car to get my helmet back off to look up.

I ended up up modifying the seat rails so that the seat was mounted 2" further back than stock, and made the back legs much shorter so if you slid the seat back it also slid all the way down to the floor giving me enough room to put a helmet on.

I'll probably do the same on my current project TA, even though it has T-tops. I haven't quite figured out how to make enough room for a cage and my head at the same time, but it will be a step in the right direction (I'm debating if I'll end up just settling for a 6pt bar and do my best not to get around the finer points of assorted rules, or cut the top off of my parts car and swap a hard top onto the "new" TA.

 

why did u stick that support bar from the CE SFC to the trans subframe? that totally killed your ground clearance for the exhaust.

that part of the subframe doesnt see much force since its where the trans connects. thats the way i got so much clearance, is by notching it and running the exhaust up against the floor. had mine that way for over a yr and i have had no probs with the trans part trying to rip off or anything.

 

it still has better ground clearance then i would if i ran it under the crossmember. i put it in there cause my engine has over 650hp with nitrous. the trans crossmember and that part of the frame will see a lot of torque with 3500 to 4000 rpm stall converter and nitrous engaged when letting out of the trans brake.

i might notch the support bar i added for additional clearance, but i am planning on just boxing the notched section of the sub frame and calling it good.

 

.. DP

 

see what your saying. i'll be at 630-650hp on the bottle as well with a 150shot. i would have thought the boxing of the knotched subframe would have been sufficent. that trans subframe is super thin i say prob 20gauge and its not even layered.i still might do alil stitch welding to mine to be safe.

u could have had alot more clearance thats all. but it will be strong.