That isnt aftermarket , not the heads, not the block. I won that Brand new short block on ebay for 65 ****ing dollors. I am using the strongest 2.8 crank from my original motor. The heads were free from a tech school from a 91 with 257 miles. I have way less than you think and It will handle 500 ft pounds and It will make 500 ft lbs. I just picked up a holley commander for 250 bucks , I got the blower kit for 550 last year , just sent it back to be rebuilt , I have 130 in the cam and lifters , 65 in ss valves , 50 in a valve job, I did the p/p , 65 for black jack headers, currently set up for tbi , forged slugs with ductile rings add another 310 bucks , shaft rockers 200 from a 60 race program in Utah , etc etc etc.... in the end its just my driver , Im not building a speed demon here , I already have a car for that.

I agree with the statement "like i said, if you can get it to hold together you can go fast with anything." but read above this inst a competion motor just a cruiser. If if smacks up some v8 than so be it. I'll sick my nova on anything with a fast 1320......

As far as nitrous I used to run 100 -125 and did so for 3 years before the blower killed the rings , I never expected it to last that long anyways, and it was all stock then. So just understand and respect my choice , I like the v6 , after all Im the one who has it and has worked with it.

 

614streets, we both seem to get around, eh? LOL

Anyway, people will have differing opinions on whether it is "worth building a 60*V6", well that depends, what you want to do.

I have not found a more reliable (for me) engine than the 60*V6, I have owned several now and have yet to blow one up.

The reason 2.8s are considered weak is because of what 614streets touched on earlier, the '80 to '84 2.8s had small (too small) main journals, which were prone to breaking, the '85 and up 60*V6 have larger almost oversized mains(IMO) for the power.

True it is easier to make more power with more displacement, but, what's the challenge in that?

I bought my current daily driver with plans to drop a SBC into it (1985 GMC Jimmy), but then decided to to take the road less traveled, sticking with the 60*V6 I stroked an '87 block to a 3.1, swapped with FWD pistons (for a '90 3.1) heads and intake were pirated from a '95 Buick Skylark, some custom parts like headers and brackets, and a few other parts, while also converting to MPFI, and I am enjoying it.

BTW here's a pic of the completed engine/almost complete install. Yes it is running in that picture.



If you want to see more pics go here: Pictures of my truck

 

To go back to the original question:

The Garret T-25 found on the 2.0L Sunbird (1.8L was a Garret T-2) Will be on the small side IMO for a 2.8L it will spool quick, probably just off idle. The turbo 3.1 found in the '89 and '90 Grand Prix STE and GTPs were also Garret T-25s but had larger A/R ratios.

IIRC The 2.0L used A/Rs of .47 compressor and .48 turbine, while the 3.1 used A/Rs of .63 compressor and .68 turbine, which allowed them to spool up starting about 1100 to 1200 RPM, and reaching full boost by about 2000 RPM.

I am using a Garret T-3 that came from a mid '80s T-coupe, it has A/Rs of . 63 compressor and .68 turbine, with a trim of 50 from what I have found for info. It starts spooling around 2100 RPM and reaches my low "full boost" (ECM tuning is needed to go more) at around 2400 RPM. I may swap to a .49 turbine for quicker spooling, but we'll see when I get some tuning done.

 

Hey James, you know thats actually the second time I have seen that picture today , I was over at s-series org and read a post you were in , I was going to make a comment to you how good that hybrid looks as I never saw it other than the inital pictures from awhile back , its looking great.

You should go over to s-seriesforum.com and share it. Post it in the v6 section. A guy just south of me just bought a b&m 2.8 blower and is running a commander 950 on a 3.4 tbi.

I just picked up a commander as well. Oh and dam looks like you just anwsered the question. Good to get some 60 v6 information spread from the people who know about them.

 

"James" is my truck hehe

Thanks for the compliment.

I'll see if I cane make it over there, and post some pics.

Let me know what you find with the 950, that is one unit I am looking at using on The Raven, once I get her built, too many projects, not enough time.

 

My bad, I just call my truck da bitch !
Alright on the 950.

 

Heh, well that’s short sighted of them… my first car was an ’84 cougar XR7. Almost 3700# of leather and other goodies powered by a 2.3 turbo + T5. It ran consistant 14.0’s at the track with nothing done to it except exhaust and tinkering with the wastegate.

Well, taking a quick look, for the last few years of the third gen the V6 was rated at 140hp… (similar to the early V8’s). 9psig boost should put it in the 210-225hp range with an engine that weights 300# lighter then the average small block. It’s very likely that you could get one of these cars into the 3000-3200# range without loosing any of the good stuff (you can get v8 cars close to that if you start stripping them…), that combination should be good enough for mid 13’s, better if you’re willing to get rid of some creature comforts or go through enough tweaking for more boost. You could also get into porting and cams and easily push it into the 300hp range without spending any real money on it if you can do the work yourself… Donno, I might actually be more impressed by a 60* V6 running 12’s then I would be by a 350 running 10’s…

 

the 2.8 fiero kits used a T25, but I personally would want a T3 atleast.

 

you might ge the HP ratings the same, but the 2.8L wouldn't make the same torque. I'd rather throw a turbo on an LG4 cause the gains would be much better, even with low boost pressure. I'm sure it's cool to have a 12 second turbo 2.8, but I'd rather have the 10 second 350, I'm not big on impressing people, just winning races.

 

the car wouldn.t be for drag racing or even long track races. But i bet it could tear up autocross.

 

brand spanking new 2.8 block with ARP studs:


+

Ross 8.3:1 Forged Pistons


+

Crower Sportsman Thrubolt Connecting Rods


+

T04B


= one bad *** V6.

 

and to anyone who thinks this engine cant handle any power:

http://www.mymilkexpired.com/video/tiagodyno.wmv

400ft/lbs of Torque on STOCK INTERNALS.

Yes its a 3.4, but the 3.4 engine is basically a 2.8 with longer stroke and bore.

 

If you size the turbo to spool by the torque peak the torque would be similar. With the right turbo you could actually make more torque. Torque is just a product of airflow * rpm. NA you need cubes to get that airflow, but with boost you just need more boost.

The big advantage in driving such a setup is that turbos build boost relative to the load and time they spend at that load. So you can size a turbo so that it would barely spool at low rpm’s in first gear, where the load isn’t as great and you only spend a short period of time at which point you wouldn’t be able to use any great torque anyway, but as you shift into higher gears the turbo is already spooled so you’re making say, 2x the torque that you were making at the same rpm in first gear and now you’re in a gear and a position that you could really use the torque without just blowing away the tires.

If you miss slightly with your turbine sizes you can do the same things with a boost controller.

I would rather do that also, but that’s not the question that this thread is about. FWIW, proportionately, the gains wouldn’t be better (you’d get approximately the same gain for the same level of boost), and assuming that you do it on a stock engine you’ll end up with about the same power (LG4 had 145hp and the 6 had 135 or 140). Where the LG4 has the advantage is that it could more easily be modified for more airflow then the small 6, since that small 6 is already getting much more power out of every cube and there aren’t as many easily available better parts for it.

That wouldn’t be the point in building this car. The point would be that you’d have something that would be about 300# lighter then any comparable V8 car that would have very close to 50/50 f/r balance and properly setup could show it’s tail to any comparable V8 car on a road course.

 

That's the most fun part, and gets quite a bit of respect.

 

OMG did you hear that thing rev? Man I would $hit myself if that thing pulled up next to me and did that.

my point exactly

 

m'eh hondas are running low 13s with turbo 4s, I don't respect them any more than I do the 16 second all motor ones. different mindset from this particular crowd I guess

 

Hehe... pull that sucker out of that 4th gen and drop into a MG or Triumph TR6 or 7.

Really trip out some people...

light car+light engine +330 HP = really wicked fun.

BW

 

yes, drool.

i want mine to sound exactly like that... or better.

It even has an awsome idle, alot like a V8.