I mean it seems like every type of car from trucks, imports, motorcycles, and now third gens are getting turbos! what ever happened to a good old fashonied blower?????? it seems like noone has one of them!!!!

 

Blowers take a lot more HP to turn than turbos, so you're wasting HP.

 

so is that why imports use them?????? but yea that does make sense so thanks for clearing that up but i still like blowers better

 

couple reasons..

one.. its in style.

two.. there are alot of people who are following the crowd and get cought up in the "turbos are more effiecnt logic".... they seem to forget, you arnt losing HP with the supercharger... you'll still making more power then you started with..


three.. the avg hotrodder is finally accepting fuel injection and has the tools to modify it... the drawback to turbos for years wasnt plumbing or anything like that.. thats the easy part.
the hard part was proper fueling... and now, not only can you do it yourself, but if you need help, there are others who know how to help ya.

 

How many street driven 1,000 hp blower small blocks do you see?

thats why turbos are cool.

 

about as many as i see turbo motors that powerful...


you can slap a 8-71 on the biotch just as easily as you can slap a turbo on it.


but like i said, its not in style.

 

hey scottland! my Dad!! he might not have 1000HP but he has 743Hp on a 350 small block! and he drives it like every weekend that it works! I may be young and just starting with my own car but im not stupid and i know a lot of TRUE hotrodders!!!

 

turbos are plenty in style. have you seen montys old car? his engine bay is sick.

there was a C5 at the track a few months ago, twin turboed 427 cube LS6. he wasn't teched to run faster than 12's so he ***** footed it until the 1/8th mile at about 40mph, then stomped on it, and still ran a 12.X at like 125mph

 

hahaha Our camaro was teched fro 12 second blasts and i went a 10.30 @130 in it. They didnt say a word!! I loved it. It is my dads 68 not my 89. FAST FAST car. I drove it for 2 seasons until it got to be too much cash for me when i was 19. Now that im 20 and with a wife and a kid looking for another house i cant afford it. Ill race it again But the bottom line is that this was done with a N/A car. Not even nitrous. Any way if you do a "good" motor it Will be fast.

 

Using the same engine a turbo will make more power than a roots style blower and these are the two main resons.

1) A turbo has higer thermal efficiency than a roots blower. At the same boost level the roots blower will heat the air more. That means that you can use more boost or more advanced ignition without engine knock if you use a turbo.

2) With a turbo it is easy to add an intercooler and increase the power differance even more.

 

I actually prefer the style of a 8-71 stickin out of the hood.. however, an 8-71 is almost 3 grand.. a bitchin' deal would be getting one for 1500.. and I turbocharged my V6 for 100 bucks flat..... JY Supercharging isn't something you hear of often :P

 

Well there are plenty of 1k horse super charged cars getting driven all over the place. One thing people have to learn to worry about is power curves and not peaks. Some of these super charged cars have much broader horse and toreque curves than turbo cars. That makes a huge difference. If you have an all out track car and looking for the maximum horsepower nitrous and turbo's are where it is at right about now. Granted other than jet powerd cars Roots blowers are the fastest cars around right now, but can you really consider a dragster a car???? I say turbo is where it is at for a full bodied race car, and blowers are one of the msot deadly street weapons.



Don't forget the low horse 5.0 stangs with cent blowers cranking 10 flats like it's nothing. some even do it on stock cams!!!! Most have a lot less horse than some turbo cars running the same times!!!! All this being said I am still going turbo

 

they are much more effeciant than a blower. The computer technology make for easy tuning with a wild setup. There is no physical connection to the crank and rods so they are easier on a bottom end in that aspect. Turbo cars don't need huge cams for big numbers either,They just plain work and perform better the only drawback is cost and some plumbing. There are a ton of high HP 4th gen lt-1 and ls-1 cars running around these days I'am talking 700hp and up. You don't see blower cars like that running around as much. Turbos are real big on torque so they are more fun to drive and faster on the street then a similar HP blower car.
I would myself much rather drive a 900hp turbo car on the street and at the track. The turbo car will perform better and be more reliable and docile for the street. If you just want to make a little more power then there is nothing wrong with slapping a blower on in a afternoon.

 

Has it been a month already?

 

 

"For a given type of fuel, more power can be obtained from an engine by turbocharging than by any other method"

-Hugh McInnes

I think that statement pretty much sums it up.

And here is a chart from the "Battle of the Boost" article in Hot Rod:

-------------------------Baseline------Centrifugal------Turbo--------Roots
Peak HP------------------392@6000------617@6000---------600@6000-----535@6000
Peak TQ------------------386@5200------561@5200---------617@4200-----513@4600
Min Boost----------------1.7@2500------5.7@2500---------4.8@2500
Max Boost----------------9.5@6000------9.5@5100---------8.0@6000
Ave HP(2500-6000rpm)-----310-------------412------------460---------394
Ave TQ(2500-6000rpm)-----365-------------494------------564---------483
Ave HP(4000-6000rpm)-----352-------------518------------555---------472
Ave TQ(4000-6000rpm)-----371-------------542------------585---------497

TQ@2500----------------------------------360------------490---------440
TQ@3000------------------340-------------405------------500---------450
TQ@3500------------------355-------------450------------560---------475
TQ@4000------------------365-------------500------------610---------500
TQ@4500------------------380-------------525------------610---------505
TQ@5000------------------375-------------555------------600---------505
TQ@5500------------------355-------------555------------560---------485
TQ@6000------------------354-------------540------------530---------475

HP@2500----------------------------------170------------235---------210
HP@3000------------------190-------------235------------290---------250
HP@3500------------------240-------------300------------375---------325
HP@4000------------------275-------------375------------455---------375
HP@4500------------------325-------------450------------525---------445
HP@5000------------------360-------------525------------575---------485
HP@5500------------------380-------------575------------600---------510
HP@6000------------------395-------------617------------600---------535

Check out the average HP and TQ of the turbo. The turbo defenitely has the best powerband, even though it is down slightly on the peak.
Can't argue with those numbers, though I'm sure someone will.

 

turbo's are also fuel efficent! Everything is turboed... imports(jap)....imports foreign(audi)...american muscle(grand nat) calleway corvette

 

When you say Blower be specific.
I will take a centrifical on the street over a turbo any day (and I own both)
The turbo has to much torque (believe it or not) and there is the lag. Lets also not forget it is a restriction on the exhaust so it is not totally free horsepower, and the added heat makes you need inconel valves and very good heat management under the hood. Packaging a turbo on the street is also a nightmare, (at least in the big HP area)
The centrifical is my favorite on the street. Instant power, no lag, easy to package and the best part is the power comes with RPM not *all in* like a turbo.
Both can be intercooled and tuned on pump gas. so it depends on what end result you are looking for.
The 1,000 hp blown street car, stay posted i will be real close in a couple of weeks.
By the way blownss's car at 5000rpm ran out of fuel pump, on pump gas made 545 to the rollers with a 700 at only 14.5lbs of boost and 22 degrees of timing.
Race gas, and a bigger fuel pump he will probably be real close also and yeah he's got airconditioning.

 

1000 hp street mannered sbc with 8-71?

show me

 

quit bashing positive displacement supercharger(roots,whipple).
turbos,nitrous,superchargers all do the same thing (add oxygen), neither one is better or worse than another.they are all equal.

oh turbos are just more efficient........well yeah at their "island of peak efficency".everwhere else they get poor efficiency.Matching a turbo to the application is key to success.There were more factory cars with turbos in the 80`s than in the 90`s to present time.The carmakers realized that customers dont only drive on the city streets but also on highways.what im getting at is people drive at different speeds ,no one turbo size could cover all the range of speed.People say turbos make great power and its true but only in the range of the turbo.For example how many turbo Supra did u see at the track trapping higher MPh for there et (no bottom end).How come wrx owner complain about having no topend power but make great bottom end.

 

dont get me wrong, I dont have a turbo, and Im betting a person could go pretty fast with a 177 and a carb on even a 350 goodrench motor and for only a fraction of the cost as well.

 

... got physics? I'll take that as a no.

 

You should probably elaborate on your post a little bit if you want to debate with him, instead of creating a useless post.

I would not say they are all equal, but I will say they all do the same thing, or at least have the same premise for adding HP. They all provide more oxygen, which allows more fuel to be spent, which increases cylinder pressure, which equals horsepower.

 

I don't think there is a debate issue.
They all have pros and cons, and they do add more of a charge to the engine, BUT They are not all equal. Period.

 

they are all capable of adding enough air to reach any power goal.


they are all capable of doing it in a streetable manner.. even if the power goal is insanly high.


so it really doesnt make any diff what method you choose... sure you may be making 5000hp and only get 4500 out the back of the crank because a 'charger is taking it... but in the end you still have 4500hp.


so really, arguing it is kinda stupid. just chose what you want, and go with it. i like 'chargers. i like turbos. i dont even see why you would bother debating it unless you have some illogical bias for one or the other. (ex: turbos are for imports, or thru the hood chargers are for 80s white trash, ect....)

 

Although I agree with his post and his sentiment, I will also agree that the content wasn’t useful unless you knew what he was getting at.

Oxygen content is expressed by % of the total. The density of the air or the total mass doesn’t have anything to do with it unless you specify that. In all cases, nothing that he was talking about would change the oxygen content.

 

As far as “which is better” They’re all capable of adding enough air mass to the intake to send the crank through the bottom of the block. Pick what you like and tune it for the power you want and quit wanking about X is better then Y

 

Just out of curiosity, how would you go about building a turbo engine that would be competitive in top fuel NHRA?

This is not an inflamatory question, and I have never messed around with a turbo set-up...just not interested. Well, I guess I have a little, the shop by me makes turbo housings and lost a load in the middle of the street. Turbos as far as the eye could see, and I helped pick them up.

Seems to me it would be difficult if not impossible to get that off the line punch to keep up with the blown cars.

 

its totally possible.

the main problem is.................... turbos arnt allowed in top fuel.
niether are screw blowers....

 

i believe it would be next to impossible to do it.

1) there is so much exhaust pressure it would destroy the turbo housing
2) the way the clutches work it would be a nightmare to get them to *repeat*
3) Staging would probably blow more engines than they blow now.
4) you would need 8-106mm turbos to supply enough air/boost

Not to mention the fuel is used to cool the blower. I am sure they could come up with a way to cool the turbo but its never going to happen.


Who would want to hear a quiet top fuel car?
the noise is half of the excitement.

 

Nitro burning in the exhaust stream of the fuel car would spool the biggest turbo you can find. You could probably have over 50psi boost for that off the line punch (most top fueler S/Cs put out 'only' 50psi max). I wonder how the turbine section would handle the pieces of exhaust valves and pistons that commonly blow out the nitro car's exhaust?

 

believe me, theres a way.

they have the money. the only thing stopping them is a couple sentances in the rule book.

take thoes out, and all hell would break loose.



remember, these are the same kind of people that grind their cam patterns offset front to rear......... because the crank twists when it runs.
the fuel/air mix is almost a solid.


there is a way, and they will find it... if they have a reason to..



personally, i think they just need the screw charger.... i would love to see a sub 4 second human bullet... itd take a G suit just to launch the thing... and good luck with that whole stopping before the gravel pit part.

 

For what its worth I just want the one that can pull a .52 sixth gear to redline (6500rpm) with a shift at 55mph. It doesn't matter which one does it.

 

Some folks prefer to be stroked. I'd rather be blown.



~C

 

I can't see what the goal is to determining what type of forced induction is best. For me, turbo's rock for every reason under the son, only downside is increased plumbing = more failures than a roots type blower.
A proper turbo is more efficient because it uses the energy in the exhaust heat to create increase the volumetric efficiency. About a third of the energy in fuel is used in making torque, another third is lost into the cooling system and the rest is expelled as exhaust energy. A turbo is using this semi-free energy to make more power output per engine cycle. I say semi-free because it is only decreasing pumping efficiency of the exhaust, minisqual losses in comparison to turning a straight rotor huffer.
A turbo is in style because it's becoming affordable. It's also the best way to expand an engines powerband (flattest torque curves).
The Eaton style twisted superchargers do something the roots style doesn't.... bypass air. Understanding that fuel ecconomy isn't a concern with something making huge power it's still something that makes it better.
Now if you're goal is to impress a lot of older folks with a hot rod engine then a big 8-71 blower will definatly turn a lot of heads, turbo's are just our generations blowers.... it's evolution, just like the LS1 being a better motor than the gen 1 sbc.

 

ok im going to say one thing:Please
turbos,roots,centrifugal are all superchargers.
Ok its hard to argue why not to use a turbo. There is alot of fast cars out there with turbos on them. But in a thirdgen its kinda of hard isnt? Everyone I have seen looks like crap under the hood. I want a good looking engine thats powerful. I have been talking to Procharger about a F1R. It looks like thats the way I am going. Any forseeable problems?

 

"Everyone I have seen looks like crap under the hood."

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think a lot of the setups I have seen on this board look very nice.

As far as which is better, that all depends on the purpose of the car. I prefer the blower as it gives me what I want, not to mention the sound. I have no desire in having a docile street rod.

I may start looking at turbos sometime. I am thinking maybe running it off an electric motor so as to produce the boost at idle. I don't know, just a thought rolling around in my head.

 

Turbos have been around since blowers. They have only become fashionable now because of engine management. They do have some drawbacks like everything else.
Pick the one thet works best for your wallet, availeble technology, and end goal.
I personally have 1 nitrous car, 2 turbo trucks, 1 centrifical blower car, and even a bigblock car with a six pack.
Hands down the centrifical is the most responsive and controlable, and fun on the street

 

haha! :lala:

 

Bob-what made you choose Procharger over Vortec and Paxton?

 

From my research they seem to be the most powerful and reliable. I do not like dealing with them though. I feel they need to get more of there products in a catalog. I have installed a couple of vortechs and paxtons for the 5.0 boys but like the procharger better.

 

I live 25 miles from them. Most of guys I have met seem nice,but I will slap them around next time I am there for you.