I'm lookin to keep up with my buddies 93 Probe GT...before you laugh listen to the specs. He's built a custom Y-pipe that feeds a turbo he got out of the junkyard off a 6.5L GM diesel motor. He has bought a megasquirt system (stand alone fuel management) as well as some minor bolts on including 3 inch straight pipe. I have ridden in this car and raced him. It RIPS *** once it gets traction. His only problem is launching and low speed roll races. Off the line my 350 TPI murders him...but once we get on the freeway I get about a car and a half behind.

Right now I have a stock head and bottom end 350 TPI with...edlebrock lower intake manifold, longtube headers, custom 2.5 inch y-pipe, 3 inch intermediate into a flowmaster dual outlet, smog delete, open element K&N. Suspension consist of lower control arms and panhard bar.

Will the setup below make 375 hp at the wheels and get me into the high 12's at 120+ in the quarter?

Ported and polished L98 heads with bigger vavles and valve angle job...holley stealth ram...and an LT1 or LT4 cam.

If this gets me close i'll through a 75 shot onto it just to keep up till I can build a SC setup or buy AFR heads, but I don't have a lot of money to spend at once. The setup above I can pick at it all winter and have it done before spring comes.

I am currently in the proccess of running new fuel lines and just got done putting a 255lph walbro in the tank.

Ryan

 

I believe the heads will be a problem. Even ported, you may have trouble reaching your of 375WHP, esp without the nitrous. Personally, I would not install nitrous if you plan to SC down the road. Since you are on a budget, put the nitrous money towards the SC (or AFR heads).

 

even with the better flowing Stealth Ram intake, a cam, and programming?

Ryan

 

and new upgraded valvetrain parts...Aluminum 1.6 rockers, stiffer springs, and with the 2.02 intake valves?

Ryan

 

I would invest in the heads also...it will flow way better than ported stockers and will come in handy when You decide to get a power adder and also give more power in the meantime...

 

man, why on earth do you need 375 to the wheels, where did you get that number from?

what is your setup now? why dont you just put a 100 shot on your car, and spank his *** if you are only 1.5 cars behind?


you are talking about alot of money for a goal that doesnt seem to need much more than you have.


adam

 

Well...there are a few reason why I don't just fall to the nitrous bug. First...the bottle isn't bottomless. Either I keep it full, or i'm back to square one. Second....everyone is telling me that if I plan to go sc, I shouldn't use nitrous and i agree. Also...the money it would cost for a kit i could do all the mods above.

I got 375 from a rough equation me and my buddy used. He likes to race freeway, from a role. He knows that I will kill him from a stoplight, but stoplight racing isn't always the higher horsepower car wins. In our case, he has more horsepower with the turbo but less torque and traction. So off the line I've got him, but once we get on the freeway and it's all power/weight of the car, he's going to edge me out. With 9psi on his turbo he's estimating close to 300 hp at the wheels. A probe with the same setup ran a 123 trap speed...with no traction from these cars he's got a lot of horsepower. We did a rough equation using weight as a factor...and for me to keep up with him...I've gotta have 75-100 more horsepower to keep up or beat him from a role on the freeway.

Ryan

 

Why don't you leave your engine alone. save your money, buy a blower. that will give you enough, and it doesn't run out.

 

I wanna try my hand at porting anyway, plus I've got a spare set of L98 heads sitting in my basement.

Ryan

 

Porting the L98 heads will be good practice- at least if you goof, you didn't loose anything!

 

That's what I'm thinking, and if i do it right, i've got a good start to a stock longblock tireroaster. Just need to get a good cam to match the new specs on the heads, the Holley Stealth Ram i'll have, new vavletrain components, and a high stall convertor.

Goal is now low 12's on stock heads, NA. Suspension mods of course.

Ryan

 

I searched for a good porting post but couldn't find one...does anyone know of one off the top of your head? Or somewhere I can find how much I can open them up...what gasket to match them too...what not to grind away...ect.

Ryan

 

That may be tough. A lot of us aren't even in the low 12s on boost, including myself (my best is 12.46 at 6psi). I am running stock suspension though...

I'm not saying its impossible, just not easy.

 

suspension i have already is the boxed control arms and tubular panhard bar. Next suspension part will be the spohn torque arm, then subframe connectors. After that...i'm going to figure out what i'm going to do for shocks.

There is a guy that I see more on TransAmGTA.com that has a stock formula with a complete suspension from spohn, and he's running high 13's on shorty headers and exhaust.

I figure if I can squeeze 375 at the wheels NA outta my car...when I get the sc setup designed and fabricated i could maybe see 11's on a stock bottom end. Probably not for long, but that's why I have a daily driver

Ryan

 

you could build your own SC kit for well under 1000.00 mine was about 750.00 that was including injectors, fuel pump and s/c. I got some good deals on stuff so you may pay more but, I could see you staying under 1000.00 easy

I used a differant brand SC then others here though

 

I've got a winter down time to mess with the spare heads i have and to maybe port the HSR i have. Soon I might go megasquirt for when i'm boosted. My buddy is using it on his 93 probe GT with a turbo...he'll be able to help me program.

Ryan

 

Heh, I’m running 13.5@100 with a stock long block in my formula 350 (basically just a cat back and cold air intake).

As far as your plans, the others are pretty much spot on. The problem will be the heads. No matter what cam you use you’ll have a problem making 460bhp (about 375 at the wheels). You’ll have a problem maxing out a stock TPI intake with most even mildly ported L98 heads.

If you want to do this on the cheap I’d start with some early/mid 80’s 305 heads and port those. Stock they flow more then what you’re likely to get out of a set of cleaned up L98’s, and that’s with little dinky 305 valves. With a nice valve job, decent size valves and someone that knows what they’re doing, the earlier heads can be made to rival a set of mildly cleaned up vortecs or an entry level aftermarket performance head.

That being said, you’ll need more cam in it then a stock LT1 or LT4 cam (the LT1 actually has less duration then some of the late TPI cams). To do this right you’ll have to match the setup to what you end up with WRT to the head porting, exhaust…, but you’ll probably be looking in the 230@.050” lift range to do what you’re talking about.

OTOH, that kind of HP should put a 3500# f-body into the 11.5@120 range, and I SERIOUSLY DOUBT that your buddy is packing that kind of heat in that probe.

 

Well the first mod I'm doin is this weekend with a Holley Stealth Ram that well outflows and has a lot more potential than the TPI intake. I'm hoping to match this with the ported L98 heads to tide me over till I get through school and have the money for a set of AFR or something.

As for the probe...yeah, I know and he knows that I will probably be faster than him in the quarter mile with no problem...maybe even just suspension.
Thing is...we are racing on the freeway a lot, and I'd like to keep up if not pull on him.

Ryan

 

Well, if the heads don’t flow, they just don’t flow. My point was that you’d have to do an OK job cleaning them up and some porting to get them to keep up with a stock TPI intake (you’d have to find about 20-30cfm per intake port, which is actually a significant amount to find in those castings). Adding a HSR to the top of them will get you something, but much.

 

would you suggest using the LT1 or LT4 cam with ported heads and HSR? Just for now till i get better heads. If I went that route I wouldn't be looking for 375 right away...just low 13's before suspension.

Ryan

 

niether of those cams are optimal for very many combinations.


i think you could choose a better cam with a little help.


adam

 

Have you thought about going with cheaper aftermarket heads? How about pro topline or dart heads? BTW both are about half of the cost of the AFRs. And you could pick up a set of 305 heads like mark was talking about for like $50.

 

A working stock suspension doesn’t need anything in the range that you’re talking about the only thing that you might want to change immediately is installing a stiffer panhard rod.

WRT to cams, I’d like to see you get a hold of an LT4 cam… To be honest I’m getting the impression that you don’t really know much about what is out there, so here are a list of the GM cams that you _may_ find fairly cheap somewhere:

GM Stock Cams
14093643 202/207 .404/.415 .431/.443 114.5deg 87 350, 305 man
10088155 179/194 .350/.384 .373/.410 109deg 87 305 auto
10066049 207/213 .415/.430 .443/.459 117deg 88-89 350, 305
10111773 202/207 .413/.428 .441/.457 114.5deg 90-92 350, 305
203/210 .446/.449 .476/.479 115deg 96 LT4
205/207 .447/.459 .477/.490 117deg 96 LT1

GM High Performance
10134334 235/235 .480/.480 .512/.512 114deg ZZ1 cam
10185071 208/221 .474/.510 .510/.544 112deg ZZ3 cam
24502586 218/228 .492/.492 .525/.525 112deg LT4 Hot cam

Now of the stock cams there really isn’t that big a difference what you run, they’re all in a very similar range with the exception of the ‘155 (the dreaded “peanut” cam). LT1 vs LT4… well, the LT4 would work better with heads that don’t have as much exhaust flow and vice versa. Really, the biggest differency there is that the LT4 cam was specifically designed to have a little more overlap because it was only supposed to go into the corvettes which did not get an EGR and overlap does have the same effect as EGR.

I’d stay away from the GM high performance cams unless you’ve got a pretty good handle on tuning/chip burning, and they’ll really do better with much better heads then what you’re talking about (especially the ZZ1, but that is getting into the range that will make your final power goal, but there are better similar grinds out there)

 

I don't know what all you've looked at, but take a look at the Vortec heads. Thats what I am running right now, and they work really well. I've ran 8.20 in the 1/8th na with them. I'm not exactly sure what that works out to in the 1/4 but I'm guessing mid 12's or so. They aren't very expensive (I paid about $400) for mine to get them brand new, but you can probably get them alot cheaper off of a truck in a junk yard. They flow pretty well for stock heads (some of the best GM has put out). I also don't know how it will work with your intake either, I had to get a new intake to match the heads, but mine is one of the pre 1986 blocks and such. I'm also running a carb and not fuel injections. I did that with a stock short block, but right now I am in the process of rebuilding the motor and stroking it out with a whole new rotating assembly (383 baby!!) Between the new bottom end making more torque, underdrive pulleys, and 1.6 roller rockers I'm hoping to get the car into the 7's NA in the 1/8th and then I've got a 150 shot of laughing gas thats going on it too. As far as cams go just give the folks at comp cams a call ( or whatever company you want) let them know what you are planning on running for your set up and let them run the numbers to find you a cam that will work the best with your set up. I imagine that it won't be much more expensive than a stock GM cam, unless you are planning on getting it out of a junk yard or a buddy's car.

 

The vortechs would be nice, but they won't work with the Holley Stealth Ram intake I'm using without machining...which is more money.

Ryan

 

I have a Vortech "T" race trim with billet 1/2" aluminum brackets, pulleys and some extra parts from a friend which are going to be offered for sale. The unit was rebuilded and never used since then, just sitting on a box. Just let me know if interested.
I also know a guy which makes turbo kits for 3rd gens

 

Hey all, I am said Probe owner. I was going to register on the site but it wont let me (Ryan and I are on the same network, share IP addresses blah blah blah). So I am on here with his name. First off the 1.5 car lengths was at about 6psi of boost, before I took the car apart I was running 9psi and believe it or not it made a world of difference. At 6psi I was able to be neck and neck with a stock 2000ish Trans Am from 40mph to 110mph. A few kills at 9psi were a modded evo, 2000ish mustang gt, 13.5 second dsm. These were all from a roll, it is damn hard to launch my car and as Ryan can back me up I can be cruising at 40mph and punch it and rip the wheels loose till 60mph. Not here to brag, just telling you guys what he is up against. We have a friendly rivalry (we will actually try to help eachother get faster) and go race.

Here are a few pics of my setup.




It is currently in pieces as I have bought another probe and am swapping all of my turbo stuff into it.
Oh and the turbo engine has 195k miles on it

 

just wait till your trans goes. I have a buddy who went through 3 in one year.

not to sound cocky (only for fun) but, I would love to run you if you only lived near me. gets hard to find people who are in it for the fun anymore

 

Alright finally got my own screen name I can use at work. I have already busted one trans, that was due to my mounts being bad (rear one always goes bad on probes and the tranny case cracks). That and the differential breaking are the two things that break on Probe trannys. Since most of my races are from a roll, I am not very hard on the trans, launching hard and actually getting traction is what kills it. If this one breaks I have a spare anyways .

Yeah too bad we aren't closer I love racing other cars just to benchmark where mine is. I am not finished with swapping my guts out of that car into my new probe, but when I am I wouldn't mind racing any local guys that might be browsing the board (I can't race Ryan anymore, his car is always on jackstands).

 

Hey, thanks for posting pics of the turbo probe. I was going to start asking questions about it earlier, but didn't want to change the subject. I love to see junk-yard turbo systems on anything. I was assuming you had the turbo 2.2 and just upgraded to the larger JY turbo, but I thought 93 probes had the 2.5. The turbo six is way cooler! I also enjoy hearing the kill stories. I love to prowl for guys in tricked out imports and mustangs and give them a surprise with my turbo 2.8 cavalier. Just last night a guy came after me in his turbocharged Lexus IS 300 with "326RWHP." He lost two car lengths on the launch and never came back until I left off at 80mph. Just love to embarrass a guys with a $30k car in my $3k daily driver with 179k miles. You and I must have similar tastes!

BTW, how well suited is that 6.5 diesel turbo suited for your application? Did you actually map it out, or just guess that it was correctly sized? We had a lot of guys on this board asking questions about them, so any info you have on it would be great.

 

http://www.paceparts.com/index.asp?P...D&ProdID=22826

Ther is the link to buy a brand new lt4 camshaft....I have that in my engine as we speak.


BTW that should be a 2.5 in the probe...its a v6. IIRC the 2.2 was a 4 cylinder. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

We most definitely are alike! No one expects a probe to be at all quick and that's the best part IMO. The probe that had this setup had a busted up bent fender, hood and a bunch of other crappy body panels which added to the flavor. I would like to have a nice looking/fast car now so thats what I'm doing. The V6 probe takes to boost quite well! The car is limited at its ecu, we have the ghay VAF which is just a plastic plunger that moves with airflow, well it maxes out before you even hit 1psi of boost, so aftermarket ecu coding just isn't there for us (which is why I went to full standalone).

As far as the turbo goes I cannot find any maps for the damn thing, I have searched diesel forums and all but have come up short. I think the turbo is well matched for my engine, I get full boost by about 3500rpm (car redlines at 7500 so I have plenty revs still). I would suggest it for a smaller engine car, or possibly twin turbo for you guys with the larger V8's. My guestimated hp is about 300 at the crank at 9psi (non IC), and I'm sure you guys will be shooting for much higher hp numbers than that, which is why I think the turbo might be kind of small for you.

 

^^^^^see what i'm up against? I'd really like to keep up NA, then slap on the tt setup.

Ryan

 

OK, fine, but I assumed that the way that he was talking about all this that he was expecting to find a used one cheap… if not it doesn’t make sense for him to limit himself to stock cams, and if so, it doesn’t make sense for him to spend $200 on an LT4 when he could get a very similar LT1 for $50 or L98 for close to free. For that matter, if he was going to spend the money on a new cam, there are many much better choices very close to the $200 range.

 

83 Crossfire...

Do you know of any good places to learn specifics about cams. I know the "basics" and i have an idea of drawbacks to huge cams when on the street and such. I just don't have a good grasp on what the different cam specs are and how they are related to the head for maximum performance.

Thanks
Ryan

 

The Vizard SBC Valvetrain book is about as good a start as you can get on cam theory... look around, if you can't find it tell me and I'll dig up the actual title and maybe even an ISBN number for you.

 

The Vizard SBC Valvetrain book is about as good a start as you can get on cam theory... look around, if you can't find it tell me and I'll dig up the actual title and maybe even an ISBN number for you.

 

I would do the HSR with comp cams 210/220 .500/.510. That will make close to 350 horses on the motor. But since you have a eldebrock manifold, just get a set of SLP runners on ebay for cheap and port them out well. Then, SC it in the future if you would like.

His probe is fast. LS1 trans am is fast, so you need to have around 350+ on motor with good gears. Even superram uppers with your intake and that comp cam with around .480-.500 inches of lift. That way, you dont really need at custom chip right now and add some fuel with AFPR.

do some searches for engine combos and ones based on TPI systems. Its possible to run well without boost.

 

I was able to sell my edlebrock lower manifold for what it will cost to get the HSR (without fuel rails) and I can sell the rest of my TPI plus some unused tools to get a fuel rail with AFPR. No money out of my pocket to upgrade to the HSR. I've heard that the long tube TPI is very limited even with SLP ported runners. I may be buying this megasquirt system my buddy has on the probe to keep tabs on extra fuel needed, and it's an easy conversion from there to using MAP for boost. He's got $350 in his prebuilt megasquirt, but you can pick them up for $150 and build it yourself.

Ryan

 

I want to sell my HSR. PM me if you are interested.

 

Ryan, get off your buttocks and do something rather than talking about it!

We've talked about ways to get your car faster. Throw a turbo on it... or two turbo's. Just get out there and do something. And then solve the fuel problems you're going to create.

Power isn't a mystery, but in any case you'll never be able to achieve the levels of efficiency that my engine does with that outdated piece of iron under the hood.

For the record... I'm not the "buddy" mentioned in Ryan's original post. I'm just yet another lowly Ford Probe owner than can walk all over this guy's trans am. And I've spent less on my car too :-/.

http://ryand2.cjb.net/My%20turbo%20setup/MVC-756F.JPG

Hard to OWN that ^^^

 

83 Crossfire TA

Mark, Clean out your PM'S!