Heres something I've been wondering. Coolant temperature in my car is usually around 170 degrees. My Paxton compresses air then forces it into the throttle body. I know compressed air = hotter air.

Wouldn't having coolant flow through the throttle body actually help cool the incoming air since it is so compressed from the blower?

Or, is it actually doing harm my heating it up?

I would be interested in hearing all opinions on this subject

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91 Formula
305 TPI 5speed
1LE/G92/WS6

Paxton SN92 polished kit, SLP airfoil, ported/polished plenum, March pulleys, Crane AFPR(43psi),Crane Gold 1.6rrs,MSD coil,MSD6AL (5200rpm limit),Holley 9mm wires,Ac delco R43ts plugs,stock chip,Ford SVO 24# injectors,Bosch O2sensor,SLP 1 5/8" headers,SLP catback,shortened shifter,3:73s w/Auburn posi,170* t-stat,JET 195* fan switch, Macewen white face gauges, Autometer gauges, Zoom hi-performance clutch.

 

actually, the throttle body is cooler when you bypass the coolant. do it and you will be surprised. go drive around and let the engine warm up and touch the throttle body. then do the bypass and do the same thing again. you will notice a big difference in temperature

 

I did notice a difference when I was naturally aspirated. But with the paxton, things get HOT. Thats why I thought I should not run the throttle body coolant bypass.
What do you think?

 

if you already have the bypass done, good.
if you dont, do it.

i'd bypass it.

 

I'd say, try it both ways!

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SUPERCHARGED 87 GTA: Blk/Gld w/Superam, 355cid Trickflows, forged pistons 9.5:1. Auto 2,600 stall, 3.45 9 bolt disc, Best time & mph (Naturally Aspirated): 13.567 @ 101.900 w/ a poor 60ft. Best mph: 104.3 *This car is 100% NYS emissions legal, w/ all emissions controls!* "If you want to have a fast car, hang out w/ those who do!"
http:// www.community.webtv.net/munks87/JustinsGTApage.com
VORTECH S-TRIM, INSTALLATION IN PROGRESS: 10 & 15 LB> PULLEYS, CUSTOM HKS RACE BYPASS, CUSTOM DUCTING W/ COLD AIR, SWAPPING TO SERPENTINE, & MANY EXTRAS! BEST TIME: 11'S I GUESS. WE'LL SEE IN SPRING!

 

Eaither way you look at it, bypassing the coolant will help, becuase your TB will be cooler. Your initial prob. was saying that if u ran coolant through it, it would help cool the air. Well, the TB will be cooler without the coolant, thus cooling the air more....do the by pass, it's worth it.

Zach

 

Those SN series paxtons do heat things up, don't they.

I have tried it both ways and while in theory the bypass sounds good,
in practice I didn't see any provible difference in ET or MPH.

I guess the air is flowing through it fast enough and the T-body is small enough that it just doesn't effect the incoming charge temp much after the Paxton has already heated it so much.

I suspect it would make a bigger (noticable) difference on an intercooled (or NA) car.



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Tracy /AKA IROCKZ4me
'86 IROC-Z Camaro
"Cogito ergo zoom"

• 355 cid
• AFR heads
• Arizona Speed & Marine hydraulic roller cam w/ AFR hydra-rev kit
• modified SLP runners
• TRW forged pistons/ceramic coated
• fully balanced
• Edelbrock headers/ceramic coated
• SLP cat-back
• Paxton supercharger
• Nitrous Express nitrous oxide

My IROC-Z
EFI Performance Club on Yahoo
Club IROC-Z


[This message has been edited by IROCKZ4me (edited March 14, 2001).]

 

how about a little water pump with some anti freeze in it pumping water to a small can that is full of ice. kind of like a small water cooled after cooler like vortech does for the LS1 cars? to document changes you would have to monitor air temp sensor with your scan tool. I have thought about this many a day. we have a local radiator shop here that i was considering having him make me a water cooled aftercooler.

BW

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Bob Wooten
r71chevy@earthlink.net
www.r71camaro.homestead.com

 

Bob, I've been thinking of something like that too. Email me your ideas man
iviastar@aol.com

 

I don't know if the air would have enough contact time & if the throttle bores would have enough contact surface by themselves for that to make much difference, but if you made something on the large aluminum U shaped tube that connects to the throttle body... hmmm. If you tig weld or know someone that does, then you could weld an aluminum enclosure to the outside of it. The larger, the better. Drill & tap NPT bosses on each end (1 inlet, 1 outlet) of the enclosure. Install NPT threaded heater hose fittings. Plumb up a tank, pump & hoses to pump cold water through the throttle body and the enclosure. Put water & ice in the tank & you would have a homemade aftercooler. you could also rig up a bypass valve to run the water through a small radiator for when you don't have ice in the tank. You could increase the effect by putting insulation around the whole assembly. I don't know if it would have enough surface/contact area to really be effective without a heat exchanger core inside, but it might help.

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Tracy /AKA IROCKZ4me
'86 IROC-Z Camaro
"Cogito ergo zoom"

• 355 cid
• AFR heads
• Arizona Speed & Marine hydraulic roller cam w/ AFR hydra-rev kit
• modified SLP runners
• TRW forged pistons/ceramic coated
• fully balanced
• Edelbrock headers/ceramic coated
• SLP cat-back
• Paxton supercharger
• Nitrous Express nitrous oxide

My IROC-Z
EFI Performance Club on Yahoo
Club IROC-Z

 

It is nothing really (not yet @ least). @ first i thought that a regular Copper radiator would work but in retrospect, i think that this would be extreamly problematic. the ID of the tubes going through a radiator are very small & would restrict air flow.

Then i thought about buying a "regular" small intercooler & having the guys @ my radiator shop take a sheet of aluminium & solder it in front & back of the intercooler & then plumb some lines to it. run a "cooler" tank in the engine bay (where the Battery used to be i suppose) with a small liquid pump & bang done. the only trade of would be the weight in water & that i had to put ice (or some other super cooler) in the tank to cool the water.

this would work GREAT for hot days @ the track but what about when you are out on the town drumming up some action? put a radiator in line with the water & run the pump coninutously to cool the water in the accumulator/cooler.

In theory this would work great but in practice one would have to make some runs with the after cooler in line & then w/o & record MAT temps & times/mph & see how much improvement it made.

gut feel, is quite a bit. look @ all the new Dutweiler cars & the aftercoolers on them. they ALL have something like this, but in race only form.

This is a ways off for me. I am contemplating a blower for my car (see sig line for WWW) but i have to get it running well first. I just toasted the cpu in it last night messing around with it. I was trying to get my new emulator hooked up & was not paying attn, I should not have been playing, kind of like tonight. Oh well, off to the wrecker to get a "new" one.

Bob Wooten

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Bob Wooten
r71chevy@earthlink.net
www.r71camaro.homestead.com

 

thats another idea. i wonder if anyone has ever tried this.

 

irocz4me, you wouldnt happen to know the temperature of the air entering the the TB from the blower would you?

If it's cooler than 180degrees, I'm giong to do the throttle body bypass again since I run a 180 degree thermostat.

 

I just checked 4 runs that i did the last time i was @ the track (I am using Data Master software, NA stroker, w/a Super ram) i did not have the fresh air package so i was taking air in through the radiator into the K&N & then into the box. w/a motor temp of 185 (constant throughout the run) the Intake Air Temp went from 137 to 134 over the 14 seconds that i was moving down the track (it got cooler, kind of surprised me). this was on a sunny day with an air temp of about 75 Deg F. in my case it would not make any sense to connect the bypass back up.

if the SC motor has an air temp of >185 this would make sense but i am willing to bet that it will not make any difference. the Delta T is not big enough & the air is moving too fast for it to absorb any heat. there would have to be a much larger surface area to make a substantial change in air temp.

the rule of thumb that i have allways followed is that you get a 1% HP gain for 10Deg F decrease. @ 500 hp that would only be 5 hp not a lot of hp for the effort. if i can drop the temp 50Deg that would be something worth spending the effort on.

my 2c
BW

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Bob Wooten
r71chevy@earthlink.net
www.r71camaro.homestead.com

 

In reguards to the coolant bypass/radiator idea... It is a great idea to bypass the TB and then run some cold COLD fulid through the TB to decrease temp!!! maybe freon?? The big question...how??? Maybe get my wife's pet rat and put him on a hampster wheel and some how hook a pump up to the wheel?? Just kidding, but pumping cold fulids through the TB is a great idea. Let me know what you ideas are?

craiger

 

Sorry, formula for taking so long to reply. I haven't been here for a while. I've been busy & have been away for a while.
Anyway as for your question: I'll go into some detail for anyone interested.
When you compress air it heats up. A device that compresses air without heating it any more than the heat caused only by compressing air and introduces no other heat has 100% adiabatic efficiency. At 70°f ambient air temperature, a supercharger with 100% adiabatic efficiency Running around 7-8 PSI boost, would have an outlet air temp of around 130°-135f°.
Paxton SN series have around 60% to 65% adiabatic efficiency. So at the same 70f° ambient air temp, an SN series will heat the discharge air to around 170°-180f°. So on cool days the discharge air should be under 180°f, and on warm days (over 70°f) it should be over 180f°


------------------

Tracy /AKA IROCKZ4me
'86 IROC-Z Camaro
"Cogito ergo zoom"

• 355 cid
• AFR heads
• Arizona Speed & Marine hydraulic roller cam w/ AFR hydra-rev kit
• modified SLP runners
• TRW forged pistons/ceramic coated
• fully balanced
• Edelbrock headers/ceramic coated
• SLP cat-back
• Paxton supercharger
• Nitrous Express nitrous oxide

My IROC-Z
EFI Performance Club on Yahoo
Club IROC-Z

 

None of these ideas are really going to be worth the effort put forth to do it. If you think about how an aftercooler works, you run air over a core with either air or water cooling the the core. The way this is a success is that the core you are using for cooling has a LOT of surface area for the air going into the engine to contact. If you just make something that cools the outside of a discharge tubing, or the bores of the throttle body its going to cool the outside of the air going into the engine but the further away from the cooling media you are using the warmer tha air will be. And it wont take far to get away before its warmed up and not even making a diff.

the theory is good but you have to cool based on surface area.

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-86 IROC
Vortech Supercharged 406
-=ICON Motorsports=-
"Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you?"

 

Yeah the picture is crude. but #1 is where you have fins in the path of the air. it has more surface area that the coolant (blue: air or water) is touching the incoming air.

#2 only goes around the outside so cools a small portion of the air.

 

I agree Guido, as I said before it would need a heat exchanger core in the intake air path to do any real good, and bypassig the throttle body heater hoses didn't have any impact on my cars performance.