Well, I hope that somebody is. I was wondering how much boost you are seeing vs. what the blower is pullied for? What fuel system mods do you have and size injectors? Are you using the Speed Pro ECM? What about an FMU? In short, the "package" that supports this beast. I have a good idea of what it is going to take, just want to compare to others.

I can't decide between a 383 and a 406. I have to buy a new forged crank anyhow, and forged pistons, so I was thinking of doing a 406. Of course I will have a top of the line short block built. I found out today that it would cost just as much to build a 383 vs the 406 from the machining aspect. I figure why not bump up the cubes while I'm there? Anyone know who makes low compression pistons for a 58cc head other than JE? I want an 8:1 motor for this.

I have an ATI P600b pullied for 12 psi. I already have the AFR heads and was thinking of running Blown406bird's (God, that car is BAD-I visit that site almost daily in lust!)230/244 duration cam with my Super Ram until I get a mini ram. Either way, I'm sure this is the cam I want. A D1 is out of the question at this time, so I want to build this beast with the stuff I already have (blower system wise with my 3 core intercooler). Darren or Guido-do you think you can help me with the fuel rails when I get the mini-ram?

The car is only driven to car shows, so I don't care if it is a little radical, as long as it runs like greased owl ****.

I'm interested in hearing if anyone has this set up already and thier combination.

Thanks

 

I have some 42# injectors for sale if you are interested. They worked great in my combo. No need for an FMU with a system like DFI or Speed-Pro, either. $300 Let me know...

------------------
Old: 1989 Formula, 383", DFI, built 700R4, TFS heads, Mini-Ram, Vortech S-trim 15 psi, 3.70 gears
Best ET: 10.796 @ 125.8 mph

New: 1989 T/A, 406", Accel Pro-Ram, DFI, AFR heads, HRC Turbosystem, NOS 150-hp dry kit, TH400 w/GV overdrive, 9" w/3.70 gears, 8-pt. S&W rollbar, 18" wheels
Best ET: Spring 2001

Employed at:
Hahn Racecraft
Accel EMIC/DFI Tuning
Turbosystems & Custom EFI

Member of Midwest F-Body Association www.mfba.org

 

GMI Fast,
Thanks for the offer but I want to hear about your combos. Those sound mean. What can you tell me about them? I'll let you know about the injectors.

 

It's all listed in my sig. Big parts, anyway. If you want a good, fast, dependable, easy-to-service combo, do this. Trust me:

406" engine
AFR heads, Brodix, etc.
9.5-10.5:1 comp.
Blower grind cam
42-55# injectors
Killer fuel system
Mini-Ram
58mm t/b
1.75" headers
Gen 7.0 DFI or Speed-Pro
Vortech S-trim or T-trim, 10-15 psi
2800-3200 stall
3.42-3.73 gears

You'll run 10's all day, drive anywhere, and be reliable as all hell. It works, ask Tory!

------------------
Old: 1989 Formula, 383", DFI, built 700R4, TFS heads, Mini-Ram, Vortech S-trim 15 psi, 3.70 gears
Best ET: 10.796 @ 125.8 mph

New: 1989 T/A, 406", Accel Pro-Ram, DFI, AFR heads, HRC Turbosystem, NOS 150-hp dry kit, TH400 w/GV overdrive, 9" w/3.70 gears, 8-pt. S&W rollbar, 18" wheels
Best ET: Spring 2001

Employed at:
Hahn Racecraft
Accel EMIC/DFI Tuning
Turbosystems & Custom EFI

Member of Midwest F-Body Association www.mfba.org

 

Hey GUYDOO....only FORUM leaders can delete posts? Not even the people who post them? WTF is up with that?

(This was a duplicate post ;p)

[This message has been edited by 96BlownSSragtop (edited January 19, 2001).]

 

Never going to happen with a 406. At least not with a readily available piston. With 20 cc dished JE's, 72cc heads and the thick FelPro gasket I'm still at 9.5:1.My JE's were the biggest dished piston I could find and they were a regular production part number. I still had to wait 12 weeks to get them cuz if they are out of stock, they wait until they get a certain number of orders before they schedule a production run.

FWIW, my setup is:

-2 bolt block w/ splayed main conversion
-way to expensive steel crank
-6" h-beam rods w/upgraded ARP bolts
-low compression JE pistons
-72cc Iron Eagle heads
-custom grind retro roller cam(226/234 dur, .560/.578 lift)
-1.6 Crane gold roller rockers
-Accel SuperRam with matching base
-BBk 58mm tb
-Vortech R-trim, 14# pulleys (20# cogs currently on order)
-Custom CAI
-83# Deka injectors
-Custom fuel system(seperate line and pump to each rail)
-Accel DFI
-250 horse NOS DFI controlled
-GReddy blow-off valve
-1 3/4" SLP headers(going to change to Hooker long tubes)
-4" cat back
-bulletproof(hopefully) th400 w/custom Art Carr converter
-Spohn crossmember/torque arm
-COMING SOON Moser 9" w/3.50 gears



------------------
Vortech S-trimmed 1996 SS Convertible
Vortech R-trimmed 406 1989 Formula

Pics of the Formula: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...0227&a=8849226

 

You know, Im kinda worried about my 406 though. As bad *** as they can be for this combo I am still worried. The cylinder walls are kind of thin and there is a potential for cracks. It happened to Blown406bird. He was running 14-16psi of boost. I dont know how common it is.
I am going ahead with mine though.

Here is my combo:
406 2 bolt, 2 freeze plug block
studded mains
eagle 4340 crank
eagle h-beam 6" rods
JE pistons
64cc AFR190 heads
9.3:1 compression
230/236 .510/.521 lift 114lsa xtreme comp cams grind
mini ram
58mm TB
Vortech S-Trim with 8 rib pullies (7.5 crank/2.95 blower)
vortech racing bypass
long tube headers
4" exhaust
MSD everything (dist, coil, wires)
aeromotive 1100hp pump
-10feed, -8supply, -6 return
aeromotive regulator
modified fuel rails

a couple notes. I am still on the stock speed density ECM (yes I swapped from MAF). I am NOT putting the blower on until after tax time. I am going to get the speed pro wide band o2 ECU and the 83# injectors like Chris has. THEN I will put the blower on. I dont want to use an FMU like I was on my 355. It is just to difficult to tune in my opinion. Especially when you have a lot of mods and too many variables. So I am going to CORRECT way.

I am hoping I can get 600hp+ at the crank. I dont think it will be a problem with my combo. I know the blower was putting out 13psi on my last motor. Hard to say this time around.

Make sure you get pistons with lowered ringlands. That way detonation doesnt kill you sonner if it occurs. Make sure that your rings are gapped wider to account for the added heat of the blower.

I am also leary about my 700R4 but it IS an aftermarket one and it has good parts. So I hope it will continue to hold up. If it dies, I will be going to a TH400.

------------------
-86 IROC
Vortech stuffed EFI 406 in progress
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Cluelessness: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.

 

Guido,
Get the block sonic tested to be sure it doesn't have any thin spots in the casting walls.
Then fill the bottom 1/4th to 1/3rd of the cooling jackets in the block with block filler.
If you start with a good core block and then use the filler to firm up the bottom of the cylinders you shouldn't have any problems with it.

------------------

Tracy /AKA IROCKZ4me
'86 IROC-Z Camaro

• 355 cid
• AFR heads
• Arizona Speed & Marine hydraulic roller cam w/ AFR hydra-rev kit
• modified SLP runners
• TRW forged pistons/ceramic coated
• fully balanced
• Edelbrock headers/ceramic coated
• SLP cat-back
• Paxton supercharger
• Nitrous Express nitrous oxide

My IROC-Z
EFI Performance Club on Yahoo
Club IROC-Z

[This message has been edited by IROCKZ4me (edited January 19, 2001).]

 

Im way past that point. Ive already had all the machine work done. Actually the engine is in the car ready to start up.

I know what I SHOULD have done.

I know it had very little core shift though. So that is at least one thing I have going for me.

Cant put filler in it now either because it can distort the cylinders when it hardens.

------------------
-86 IROC
Vortech stuffed EFI 406 in progress
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Cluelessness: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.

 

I had my block pressured checked and once we found one that was good, we did the sonic check thing on mine.

...before you even ask GMI Fast, yes I had the same done to your block

I know it's just a matter of time. That's why I'm not taking any chances on the tune(ASSC is doing it). Lotsa GOOD fuel. And I'm saving my pennies for a new DART block

Chris
Deep Pockets(NOT) RACING

 

I heard that Chris!
I am already thinking of what I want to do down the road. Either get my old 350 block out since they are pretty strong. Or go the Dart block route. I would like to switch out to a turbo charger down the road and the only thing I feel keeping me from doing it NOW is the fact that I have a fctory 400 block.

------------------
-86 IROC
Vortech stuffed EFI 406 in progress
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Cluelessness: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.

 

I saw what happened to Blown406Bird's block,not a pretty sight.It had a nice 2" crack in the middle of the cylinder,amazingly,the car still pulled a 10.00. Filling is the answer to keep a production 400 happy. Like Guido said,the Dart Block is a Damn good choice. After seeing it and picking it up in person,i might get 1 if i decide Not to play wth my 305.

Dirk

------------------
1991 TA WS6 305/5 spd
Nitrous,hooker shorties,flowmaster 3" cat back,3.73's and a 160 shot of nitrous
DragStars 15x3.5 et fronts,15x10 rears with 275-50/15 BFG DR


1997 TA LT1
Draglites,15x3.5 sportsman pros
16x9 255-50/16 Comp TA's or Drag radials
Moroso CAI,no sway bar,dynomax non catback

 

Filing! HA!
That is funny you mention that. When I put mine together, I bet I spent a good 20 hours with a piston in each cylinder turning it over and seeing where it hit, then using a hand file and filing away and then rechecking with feeler gauges till I had proper clearance. I did this to each rod to make sure it cleared the oil pan rail.

I hope it lasts this way.

 

I believe he said "filling".

Blown96Ragamuffin: Gimme my trans, dawg! Email me at work or call me this weekend, stud.

------------------
Old: 1989 Formula, 383", DFI, built 700R4, TFS heads, Mini-Ram, Vortech S-trim 15 psi, 3.70 gears
Best ET: 10.796 @ 125.8 mph

New: 1989 T/A, 406", Accel Pro-Ram, DFI, AFR heads, HRC Turbosystem, NOS 150-hp dry kit, TH400 w/GV overdrive, 9" w/3.70 gears, 8-pt. S&W rollbar, 18" wheels
Best ET: Spring 2001

Employed at:
Hahn Racecraft
Accel EMIC/DFI Tuning
Turbosystems & Custom EFI

Member of Midwest F-Body Association www.mfba.org

 

Block filler isn't a "cure all" but it does wonders to strengthen a production block. But you are right, you want to use it before machining.
Another good (and cheap) way to strengthen the block is to install deck plugs before milling the block.

------------------

Tracy /AKA IROCKZ4me
'86 IROC-Z Camaro

• 355 cid
• AFR heads
• Arizona Speed & Marine hydraulic roller cam w/ AFR hydra-rev kit
• modified SLP runners
• TRW forged pistons/ceramic coated
• fully balanced
• Edelbrock headers/ceramic coated
• SLP cat-back
• Paxton supercharger
• Nitrous Express nitrous oxide

My IROC-Z
EFI Performance Club on Yahoo
Club IROC-Z

 

yeah i see it now. urr
anyway I still did file it. It was a way to keep from taking a lot of out that area.

----
feel like a moron racing

 

Man, thanks for all of the replies guys.

I think at this stage that I'm going to do the 406 with the Speed-Pro ECM and no FMU. Like Guido said, there are to many variables involved in tuning it.

I was afraid of the piston problem as far as low compression with a 58cc head. Looks like I will buy another set of AFRs, with larger chambers and take the set I have and put them on my 91 GTA.

I had not thought of the block filler though. That is a great point. I would love to have a Dart "m" block, but I already have a 400 sitting in the garage. I tried finding another 400, as a spare, man those things are getting hard to find. I guess if that I blow the block apart from to much boost, the DART block will be on its way.

I can't wait to get this thing together.

 

SLP91GTA,

I had good luck with last years combo besides the cracked block. It sounds like your going to need bigger chamber heads or leave the piston in the hole to achieve even 9.0-9.5 comp.
I have a couple friends running 650+HP N/A 406 motors, 14:1 comp, solid roller,etc. Both are filled and have deck plugs.
One ran all season with no problem. The other made a few passes and cracked a cylinder.
The point is, it doesnt matter what precautions you take. It's luck of the draw on finding a good factory block. If the metal is fatigued, it wont work. My machineist says he's been seeing an increase in older factory blocks with this problem.
You should be fine if you stay around 10 lbs of boost or a 12:1 N/A static comp. motor
Just something to think about.

Good Luck and E-mail me if you have any questions.

96BlownSSragtop:

Sweet car!! Have you had a chance to Dyno it yet?

------------------
87 Formula
406
AFR 210
miniram
vortech t-trim
55# injectors
DFI
th400 8"converter
moser 9" 3.73
convo pros

www.homepages.go.com/~thess406/Blown406Bird

 

Thanks. Haven't done the Dyno yet. I'm planning on having everything finished and put back together sometime in April so I can load it up and head to Chicago to have it tuned. Then we'll know what it how she does.

Got to give you a run for your money at the next GMHTP event. Can't let you every trophy now can I.

Got to ask you a question about your block. Did yours have 2 freeze plugs or 3? Reason I ask is when I was researching the mysteries of the 400 all the machine shops around here told me that the 2 freeze plug blocks seemed to hold up better. Just curious if your experience is going to add to this theory or shoot a hole in it.

Chris

 

96BlownSSragtop,

I have spent the last 20 minutes drooling over your set-up. Your right, it had to be hard to put the hood back on it. Seeing your Super Ram and all of that aluminum made me think how good mine will look. Where did you get the air intake tube when it was natural? I haved looked every where for one like that and want one for my 91 GTA.

I will definitely do the block filler. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions.

Bown406Bird: I noticed that you are running AFR 210 heads. I know you are running 14psi, but I was curious if the car is sluggish until the powerband comes in. Do you ever drive this thing on the street? I'm going to be buying another set of AFRs and I'm trying to decide on a larger intake runner, due to the extra cubes (to feed them). Just wondering what static compression ratio you are running.

Thanks again.

 

uh i dont think he had problems....i saw that car at bristol and he was trying everything to keep it from spinning out of the hole. but a 5500rpm 8" stall converter will do that!

 

I drive the car a couple of times a week. It's very streetable. Last year I drove it 80 miles to the beach, cruised for the weekend, and drove back home.

The 10" 3500 convertor was too tight. It was a little lazy off the line. I switched to an 8" 5000-5500 at the end of the year. WOW, what a difference!! Now I need traction. It blows the tires of at 70 mph in 3rd gear I'm working on that this winter.

I'm running 9.0:1 static comp. I ran 14lbs most of the year and boosted it up to 16lbs at the last race of the year.

96BlownSSragtop:

I talked to my buddy and he says he hasnt found a difference between 2 and 3 freeze plugs.


------------------
87 Formula
406
AFR 210
miniram
vortech t-trim
55# injectors
DFI
th400 8"converter
moser 9" 3.73
convo pros

www.homepages.go.com/~thess406/Blown406Bird

 

So, how are the AFRs with the larger intake runners? Still curious as to how they perform on the street. But, I guess if you shove that mcuh boost into it, that would help!

That is cool: Drive it to the beach and run 10.00s at the track!

 

They work great on the street and strip. I would run at least a 210 cc port on a 383 or larger engine.

------------------
87 Formula
406
AFR 210
miniram
vortech t-trim
55# injectors
DFI
th400 8"converter
moser 9" 3.73
convo pros

www.homepages.go.com/~thess406/Blown406Bird

[This message has been edited by Blown406bird (edited January 26, 2001).]

 

SLP91GTA...

I made that CAI myself. We have a couple of shops here locally that do mandrel bending. I went and bought a couple of 4" elbows, a stainless band clamp and ordered a K&N cone filter. Instant 4" CAI kit. Guido has it now.

 

Today I finished the short block. The AFR 210 cc heads arrived from LPE last thursday, so the motor is starting to come together. I have spent the last several hours in the garage just staring at the assembled bottom end. It looks awesome, I can't wait to put my foot into this thing!

I'm waiting (thinking and trying to decide) on a upgrade to my ProCharger. I'm following Willie's and Darren's buildup closely.

I just wanted to give everyone an update.

 

hey guys. im building up a 406 now. i just had soem questions. im going to make the car more for autox/circle track *want it to do 200+mph* so a blowner isnt really needed. the gearing in the tranny will be changed to get the car to 200 mpf of course. but here is where im getting confused. the guy building my 406 is telling me to go with the TPI setup, with a big mouth SLP longtube runners, 58MM t.b. with everythign ported to match. while from this board I keep hearing miniram. but when i look at the charts on the mini ram *TPIS chart*, the hp and Tq suck till like 4000 rpms and u dont see and decent #'s till after 5000 rpms, where as the TPI set-up, u see 300 tq right off the bat. *again this is according to their cart/engine specs* I want to get about 500 hp from the 406. *plus im going to add a dual stage nos kit, stage 1 will be like 100 hp and stage to is 250, i know i have to build the engine around the nos.. and later maybe a s/c* it will have forged pistons and crank and the heads are AFR 195's.
what should i do. i want to go with the TPI set-up cause the #'s are better pluss im only building the engine to go like 6000-6500 rpms *6000'ish redline* I know many people dont like TPIS, but i have bought my carbin fiber Driveshaft from them , heads, and other misc stuff from them, all without a problem.

oh yea, i still want the car to run on pump gas, and get kinda descent gas milage *the guy whos building my 406 has the same engine in here 89 vette and he said he gets about 16 mpg street. the cars not going to be a daily driver, but its going to eb driven alot cause id want to drive the car since im dropping 13k into the car.

 

Go with the superram then. It's got better low end than the miniram and better upper than TPI. Or you could look into the carb manifold EFI set-ups. You probly want bigger heads though especially with a 406.

 

SLP91gta,I have another set of rails if you are interested in them .Welded a aluminum 1/2 inch linein place of the oringed one and it feed the paasenger side rail with a 8an fitting and rail are drilled out inside no double chambers.

 

iv allready cracked 4 of my cilinder bores
but iv just been resliveing them with a better
clinder and they are made out of a better materal
i run 14 psi and my block is board out .60 over


------------------
388 SuperRam, DFI, Vortech R trim ,N.O.S.,alki injection,
Dart sportmansII heads,50 pound injectors, Headman full headers
duel 3' exhaust,and Flowmasters, Ford nine inch with 370's
Ronal rims with Nitto drad raidals.

 

My ultimate nightmare came true this morning. I went out to the garage and found the lock cut and the door broken at the handle. I went inside, and to my horror, my whole short block was gone, a lot of tools along with my Ronal wheels and tires. Those wheels were so unique, they were like the 1992 Firehawk wheels. I petty the poor B@stard that is foolish enough to put them on his car. Luckily, for some strange reason, I didn't have my heads and induction parts in the garage.

I'm going to talk to my insurance in the morning about if they will cover me under home owners. If not, I'm selling my Corvette to get the motor built again.

I was so excited about getting the short block together and seeing things starting to progress nicely. I had hoped to have the car up and runnning by late September. This is a major set back, even though I have other things too do to it

 

Man that sucks, I feel your pain.

------------------
89 RS 350 TBI auto Hooker SC/LT headers Open element 3in K&N CVT protorque mini-starter

Daily driver 91 RS auto LO3 63k

New project- 89 Formula 350 WS6
383 or 400 to come!

 

Someone stold your block? Well, all i know about that is, who knew you had it? Do you have nosy neighbors, or someone in the neighborhood who saw the engine block being delivered?

Also, how about the delivery guy, he might have asked you what it was, then went home to tell HIS neighbors about the "delivery" of a "racing 406 block" being delivered to someone on his route.

Good luck on getting the parts replaced with insurance! I know i would be crying right now if i were you. Man that must hurt...

------------------
1986 IROC Camaro
305 TPI "LB9"
3.23 gears
Doesn't know enough about cars.
AIM: jesusathome