Anybody tried to make this concept work? I've been planing to try and make a prototype. I've only got one problem. How much boost (bar.) can you give a totally stock engine without having to change the compression ratio? I have two electric engines that rev 17000 rpm.. That should be enough to get the 0,2 - 0,5 kbar. of boost? Should... Ideas? This is just an idea but could work.

[This message has been edited by Crisis (edited November 24, 2001).]

 

i like the idea! you can connect and disconnect your charger depending on situation.

i bet having electric motors is not enough, you need also the charger. how about connecting vortech to electric motor? or compressor housing from turbo?


-P

 

why not just buy an electric supercharger, do a search there are a few to choose from, but they kinda suck

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neko
'87 trans am
car in the making

 

Here is the problem.

It takes ~30 hp to turn a blower. There are 746 watts in 1 hp. Volts times amps equal watts.

So 30 * 746 = 22380 watts

22380 watts / 12 volts = 1865 AMPS!!!!

That is with a motor that is 100% efficient.

So do you see the inherent problem running an electrical supercharger.

 

you have a some kinda point why it's not a good idea :-D


-P

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Crisis:
engines that rev 17000 rpm.. That should be enough to get the 0,2 - 0,5 kbar. of boost?
[QUOTE]

An interesting idea.... I think a regular exhaust driven turbine for a turbocharger spins at up to 100,000 rpm at full boost tho.
You would probably need some creative gearing to get your boost out of those motors.

Also, start thinking about a way to shield the electric motors form the heat to prolong bearing life....

 

if it is powered by electrice it would not need to be powered by the exhaust so it would not really get that hot.

 

Look what a73camaro said. Do you think you will be able to power that thing??

 

Thank you RMK!

 

Here's another thought...I see a lot of posts up here about people trying these crazy ideas about "forced induction" into their engines. A) the only tried and true methods of forced-air induction are turbos and superchargers B) if you try anything else, it will just waste your time cause it most likely wont work.

Plus, the whole idea about the electric motor is right. And another thought- you do realize that electric motors heat up as well. So not only would you need a case which is basically one huge heat-sink, but you would need a cooling device, and enough power to constantly dedicate to an electric motor of that power. In the translation, you would probably lose as much power as you would feasably gain from such a venture.

 

amperage is assuming that the voltage is 12. If step up the voltage then well the amps go down, you know.

------------------
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GofasterFirebird,

Correct, If you use 100amp alternators, and somehow connect them in series to get high voltage, then you only need 18 of them ... Try to fit that under the hood.

It is possible to use power from the battery, but only for a short time ( less than 30 sec ). And the boost will be very low, about 1 psi with a high power fan.

http://www.electricsupercharger.com/


------------------
Jonas Bylund

 

And 18 batteries.... LOL

So what is your solution?? Gonna put 216 volts DC on the car??? Or a DC-DC inverter to get up at the voltage.

Or maybe add an AC generator to power the electrical supercharger.

Have you ever seen how big a 30 hp motor and generator is??

The reason why volts go up and amps go down is

Power = Volts * Amps


Thanks for your cynical statement. I used 12 volts cause 12 volts is VERY common with cars.

 

Why not step up the voltage? Why use conventional methods to try to accomplish unconventional tasks?

 

Since we are talking conceptually, why not have a series of capacitors that discharge to provide the power to run the motors? I mean it would not have boost all the time but possibly enough to make a run, idle for a few waiting for the capacitors to gain charge and repeat. Of course this is out there but interesting to ponder.

 

whether stepping up voltage or using capacitors it does not matter there are added losses any time you make conversions that compound the root problem of sum that you need. In engineering they have a saying, "you cant get something for nothing." it means no matter how you try to work around a problem through conversion you must give up something (or add more at the beggining) If you do not understand this or think I am talking in circles then try this experiment: 1) untie you shoes but leave them on. 2) grab your shoe laces with both of your hands. 3) stand up and lift yourself in the air. 4) congratulate yourself on your failure.

 

A dc-dc inverter will step up the voltage and lower the current on the output, but if the inverter is connected to the 12 volt system, thousands of amps will still be required to power the inverter on the input side of it.

With capacitors, you would need hundreds of pounds of caps to store enough energy to power the electric motor drawing 30 hp.

Look and an electric vehicle. A BUNCH of batteries and good size motors are required to make 50-80 hp.

Your car's starter. It cranks out 3-5 hp, but it is drawing 300 amps.

 

Something has to be wrong with this argument. There are electric superchargers putting 3 or 4 psi out and I don't think they need 18 batteries.

------------------
-Tas
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What kind of volume do they move though?

 

Does It reall take 30 HP to run a Centrifugal supercharger? There are some batteries In the summit racing cataloge that put out 1500 amps for 8 seconds.

 

Ok, 1500 amps for 8 seconds. To get that high current you must more or less sort-circuit the battery. They will never deliver that and keep the 12 volts.

Check with a volt meter how much the voltage will drop when you crank an engine. Let's say that the starter is drawing 300 amps (that is max). Try and crank 5 cars, at the same time, from one battery ... You will not have a lot of voltage left!


------------------
Jonas Bylund

 

http://www.electricsupercharger.com/

What a joke, especially for the price!

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Wassamatter? You don't like lugging 3,000 pounds of copper around to wire the thing? Are you just lazy?

And if you had an engine that was big enough to drive an alternator big enough to power a DC motor that was big enough to drive a charger that was big enough to supply an engine that was big enough....

You get the idea - I think we've discovered the scientific inverse of perpetual motion, Perpetual Dissipation! The more power you put in, the less energy you get out, until the whole ungodly assembly just sucks all the energy out of the entire universe! Kind of like what the Democrats do with taxes. A sort of "black hole" of automotive technology. Oh, never mind - Mitsubishi already beat us to it.

P.S. - I thought the "leaf blower" idea was long since dead. Then I saw an electric blower advertised. Right next to the magnets for the fuel lines and "engine rebuild in-a-can". P.T. Barnum was right, dude.

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Later,
Vader
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If you want to beat the World, it might reach up and pull you down...
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