I just seen this somewhere and it sounds like a badass way to go for me . Instead of converting to the 749 setup .


I haven't seen it on here at all being discussed . Is there something bad about it ? I did a search and found a page on it . Still kinda in the darn a bit.

It says you can use a 165 ECM and use a 2 bar MAP sensor on it ? Also tune it with no eproms , or emulators . Why isn't everyone useing this ?

 

It may be one solution. TunerCat has a bin edit file for it. I didn't see an option for "2-bar map" in the constant area. You would need to find out if the code can handle the 2-bar sensor.

I started out with the 165 (sister to the 808) ECM with $6E. The 8192 datastream always was locking up at random when ALDL logging. ALDL logging is huge for me and I won't run an ECM that can't do it reliably. I think it was more of a code problem then the 165 itself. One of the main reasons I switched to the 730 ECM was because of that. I can switch between the $8D and $58 code with a simple chip burn and no re-wiring. That is a benefit for me because I have been running the $58 and doing some 2-bar experimenting with the $8D.

You are correct about not many people using the 808 around here. That means help/support for it will be limited. Maybe you can find someone that is running one and knows a lot about them. The 165 ECM uses a 27C128 (16K byte) ROM. You need a chip burner and/or "emulator" to reprogram it.

Where did you get the info saying that it doesn't use a PROM? and that it can use a 2-bar MAP sensor with the stock code?

 

I’ve done it, it works…

Issues/disadvantages:
- It was never used with a 2 bar map from the factory, you have to scale things yourself… people say that the load calculations will be way off if you do it but it works surprisingly well, I didn’t see an issue.
- Scaling the map table for a 2 bar map sensor cuts the map resolution in half, scaling it for a 3 bar cuts it to 1/3… (should be an issue but it appears that the ECM does a good enough job interpolating in between that it doesn’t really matter that much, I supposed it might be an issue on a very touchy combination or one that you were trying to run on the absolute ragged edge)
- There are no previsions for a TCC

Basically grab a Holden 305 TPI police package .bin file and an 808.ecu file and go to town. I think it was JoBy that I was going back and forth with this for a while (I think that saturn5 and someone from down under was involved on and off also, it’s been a while), both of us ended up with slightly different modified definition files depending on what we wanted to see, but basically we both just made changed the steps on the map table to read 2x what they originally did so that it made sense to us reading it (I eventually changed the labels to show actual PSI boost just because it made me happy), scaled it all over (basically, delete every other column of map values to get the vacuum to 0 range, you have to build your own from there) and start tuning.

 

83 Crossfire TA,
That is one way to do it........1/2 the resolution and to make the tables appear as they go up to 207 KPA. If you don't mind the resolution reduction, that is a fine way of doing it. You can gain resolution by translating the 2-bar signal and interpolating. This essentially gives no loss in resolution.

How well did the 8192 data logging work with the Australian BIN? Every $6E mask in a 165 ECM always seemed to lock up sometimes. The $32B masks I have tried would not do 8192 ALDL logging.

The TCC lock could be done with a simple vacuum valve and relay if it was needed or maybe drop the 165 $6E code in the Australian BIN. I think there is a fully commented $6E floating around.

 

HUH??? What does that mean? I mean, I know what the definitions of translating and interpolating are, but I have no idea what you’re saying. A 2 bar map goes 0-5 V and so does a 1 bar, by default, resolution is lower, the only way that it won’t be is if you built a 2 bar that went 0-10V, and I don’t know what you’re interpolating at all.

Never tried it, a the time I did the slow stuff with a single transistor cable

I don’t understand how you can just drop in code from another bin into a bin and it seems that no one really wants to explain it.

 

We did that on Fredriks Turbo IROC when he still had the stock TPI in there.

Modified ECU and the BIN we used here:
Index of /fredrik/Camaro/bin/

You can use that as a starting point.

 

True. The 2-bar MAP signal has twice the KPA range with the same voltage range as a 1-bar MAP signal. What I meant was the resolution and range of the tables. Everything that uses the KPA value gets doubled so the lower end of the scale at 20 KPA now becomes 40 KPA. Most engines will run in the 20 KPA and 30 KPA areas under cruise.
I have been working on a stock 1-bar bin and changing some stuff to *try* and make it a 2-bar bin. I take in the 2-bar signal (A/D counts) that go from 0x00 (0 volts) to 0x7F (2.5 volts) and turn it into a value that goes from (0x00 to 0xFF). This is the 0 KPA to 101 KPA value. I use that value for the stock 1-bar bin functions........no loss of resolution and range there.
I then use the 2-bar signal (A/D counts) that go from 0x128 (2.5 volts) to 0xFF (5 volts) to make a new value that goes from 0x00 (101 KPA) to 0xFF (207 KPA).

I now have two KPA variables. One for no-boost that is used by the stock code and looks just like the 1-bar A/D count value did. The second KPA variable is used for new functions that do a BPW multiplier and spark adder/subractor.

In doing this, I call it no loss in range and resolution.

Well, I think no one does it because it is kind of hard to explain. You almost need the person right there because of the amount of questions that will come from it. If I ever get this bin done, I might do a write-up of what was changed, how, and why.

The mechanics of changing code is rather easy. I just type "assemble.txt" at an MSYS prompt (MS-DOS looking prompt) and.........out pops a bin. The part of changing the assembly instructions is the more difficult part. The worst part is taking a fresh bin and commenting it into something meaningful. That can take a long time......I started commenting the $58 last Summer/Fall and it still isn't finished. I did get it commented enough to add some 3-bar code, coolant fan code, idle stuff, etc. It doesn't really matter though because I am thinking of ditching it.

 

Thank you. I still have one 165 ECM MAF rig that I use quite a bit. I might give that bin a try at some point. I need to find a 808 pin-out / wiring diagram to compare it up to the 1989 TPI wiring diagram. I would probably start out with a stock 808 bin first. You wouldn't happen to have the stock bin also?

 

I uploaded a few more files.
Index of /fredrik/Camaro/bin/

305map808.bin - the bin we started with.
Pinout of 165 and 808.

 

thanx guys . It seems just as hard as going to a 749 setup . So I may just go that route. I figured it was as easy as just haveing to install the MAP and ploping the new .bin into the prominator. and away I go .