well going threw the race car trailer today,i came across some mechanical injection nozzles and a full jet set.now all this stuff was used on our top alcohol dragster.

i was thinking about going to an itb setup with mechanical injection running on alky but it was to expensive and hard to find a good working itb/mechanical injection setup for the 60* v6

i have a 1.5 gallon aluminum tank with a hi presure fuel pump mounted inside thats alky compatable,i built this for a diy meth injection system.

so heres what ive come up with
i figured i could mount the nozzles in a direct port configuration,install the tank,and all realted throttle controlled valves to regulate the flow of alky.
now i would wire this all up with a pressure switch so that the pump would only come on under a set amount of boost.if i didnt it would just start spraying alky all the time.

what m thinking of is if i hook it up with an fmu i could regulate the flow of alky into the motor to slowly change the ratio of gas/alky mix some thing like 10% alky at 7psi slowly working its way upto 30 - say 50% or more alky by full boost 18+ psi.what i would do is tune the megasquirt to start pulling fuel as the alky injection started to work and let the alky make up for the lost fuel/

i have everything i would need to do this though it would take alot of time to make it work correctly,but im thinking the work/effort required to make something like this work would be well worth the benefits

the hardest part is going to be increasing fp to increase flow threw a mechanical injector but im pretty confident i could do it with the fmu,though on the dragster these things run upwards of 250 psi fp were as i have a range of 20-150 psi tops to make make it work

what ya guys think, possible,waste of time ?

 

Its possible but for the pump to go from 0-whatever psi in as short of time as it takes to develop boost is asking a lot and Im not sure if its even possible. A fuel solenoid like used for nitrous would be a good idea.

when you race, you flip the switch for the alky pump and the solenoid is closed, the injectors have no pressure because its bypassing the injectors through a fuel pressure regulator before the solenoid. Once you hit boost, use a pressure switch to open the solenoid, you then have instant pressure, no waiting for the pump to prime.

 

It sounds like it will work. Where are you going to get the fuel rails and other stuff hard anodized for use with meth and/or straight eth?

 

I don't see why you couldn't set up the MS to control this "7th injector" that would need to have it's own pump and regulator. Possible yes / feasable - we'll see.

 

actually all the plumbing will be done with stainless hard lines,and an line,i know ethanol eats aluminum but all the tanks in the dragsters are aluminum and weve never had a problem with them,hell even the main feed line from the tank to the fp in the dragster is aluminum.i think the only parts that are anodized are the distribution blocks.doing this should allow me to get way up there in boost levels ,not to mention ill be able to run lots mor timing in the motor should be interesting to see just how much power i can get out of this thing once i get the system to work right.

ill post up some pics of the stuff tom

 

im not doing this with electronic fuel injection.
this is setup with direct port mechanical fuel injection(6 nozzles),think of it as a direct port nitrous system,
basically the motor will go from running on gas and transition over to a gas/alky mix prolly in the neiborhood of 50/50 though im willing to bet i could run a 70/30 mix of alky/gas.
though im gonna start with a low ratio of alky to gas and slowly work my way up

 

ok heres a shot of the manifold as i was building it

and heres a shot of a nozzle (the jets screw directly into the backside of the nozzles pretty much just liek an n20 nozzle)


how im going to install them is drill and tap the manifold flanges so the nozzles are centered over each port


i have to get more pics of the other parts of the system im going to make do this this over the weekend

 

dave since you seem to know something about alky injection... would there be a benefit if instead of alky or meth you were to inject Dimethylketone or is that what the meth injection is?

 

Dimethylketone is acetone...

Not exactly the same as methanol and i dont know if it would even run on it!

 

well some racing fuels are using it they say that it has a octane rating of 150 and do to its evap speed it should cool quite significantly

 

I use 3oz per 10 gallons in my daily driver. If you Google it, it's common to use acetone to help with mileage and keeping the engine/injectors clean (I saw a 15% gain in mileage).

 

Yes, i know quite well the little myth of adding a shot of acetone to a gas tank to help mileage. But anything more than a little shot, then it starts eating up all the seals and gaskets!

The engine might run fine with it mixed with gas in that very very small precentage, but this guy is talking about almost taking this engine totally off gas when its in the boost. I was just wondering if the thing would even run or make power if it was running almost straight acetone!

 

acetone doesnt eat rubbers it can cause Minor swelling of some natural rubbers over a long time in total and constant submergion but synthetic rubbers are fine basically any rubber that withstands gas will be fine with acetone... it has been tested but what hasnt been tested is if acetone would be better/cheaper than alky/meth injection....so what if you need to buy some nitril couplings they can tolerate more heat and wont get dry and crack or melt so easy

 

correct me if im wrong but isnt acetone highly viotale(sp)

 

Volatile : the ability for a liquid to evaporat quickly. (VOLATILE)
Gas and acetone mixes, so the evaporation rate of the gas would be slightly higher, or the evaporation rate of the acetone would be slower depanding on the mixture. Because of the evaporation rate of acetone, which is similar to alcohol, yes the charge would be cooler. Both denatured alocohol and acetone is combustable, the question would be is : What air to fuel ratio would be needed to decrease detonation with acetone?

 

hey dave sorry about hijacking your thread like that

 

ok i hgad the wrong term,i meant easily ignitable more so then gasoline,ethanol is actually harder to ignigte then gas.

spitot its cool it wasnt like u hijacked it with something totally irelavant to my original post

 

cool cause i think i will do it again....
here is MSDS for acetone notice the autoignition point of 869* F
http://www.bu.edu/es/labsafety/ESMSDSs/MSAcetone.html

Now here is regular unleaded from chevron
http://www.albina.com/Fuel/ChevronRUGasMSDS.htm
the autoignition point of 536*F

And here is methanol
http://www.bu.edu/es/labsafety/ESMSDSs/MSMethanol.html
auto ignition point of 851*F

 

So acetone and meth should both be pretty much equal in detonation resistance. But which one would produce more power, which has the most energy(BTU?)?


EDIT:

Just googling around a bit and it looks like acetone only has about 1/2-3/4 the BTU gasoline does... Methanol is even lower, about half the BTU...

So maybe acetone is the better way to go...?

 

No you had the correct term, if a liquid has a rapid evaporation rate and is combustable it would cool a charge more (in comparison to gas ; the point I was trying to make).

 

hey heres the tank/ pump assembly i fabed up
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fabr...on-system.html
this type of setup could be used for meth injection/ and or a separate fuel tank/pump for a wet nitrous system