I dont know if this is the correct section, but here it goes.

I began making my own water fuel cell and with the help of some friends of mine that are electrical engineers with a degree in "electronics gurus" we are working on very high efficient water separation system using just materials that can be bought anywhere.

How many of you are doing this kind of stuff?

 

Are you talking about the electrolysis of water into Hydrogen & Oxygen gas, or Brown Gas?

There is another topic somewhere else... Where people are discussing it...

But please... Go ahead...

Raf

 

Sounds like a classic hydrogen setup that can be found all over the web using hardware store parts. What makes your system "very high efficient"? Projects like that are fun though. Take a look into the meth. / woodgas stuff.

 

Remember you can't shoot pool with a rope. Best of luck.

 

Yes is another system like the ones found on the web. What we are doing is trying to imitate the Stan Meyers pulse generator method or better if we could. I am working on the fuel cell only, but my friends are working on the electrical part. Just yesterday I got my hands in one of those schematics supposedly the same as the ones Stan used and have a patent. I am going to give it to them so they can study it. Last day we talk on the phone and they already had something , but they wanted to make it all into a microprocessor. I dont like the microprocessor idea since the average joe can't replicate it easily, but they will provide with both methods; the microprocessor and the conventional using diodes and capacitors, etc...
If anyone have some good valuable idea, shoot them up.

 

From what I see, water can be broken up into HHO gas...
Now how valid the run your car on water sites are, they're supposedly adding some of that HHO gas to the regular intake (still using mostly gasoline)...

Anyway,

I saw through some other sites, that the rate of which the gas can be created is kinda slow (not enough to run a car)... I saw a guy that had a machine that produced about 10 times as much with less power...

Hmmm...

I was looking at chargers... a 12v charger and some others... There are companies that sell high frequency chargers... example.. think of a 60hz wave... well, a 120hz wav is like 2 60 hz wave's etc... they keep upping the frequency... understand? Here is the site that makes the high freq chargers, for some ideas...

http://soneil.com/features.html

Most people have it hooked up directly to 12v... if a microprocessor / converter were used, it could generate higher frequency waves, to maybe produce more gas... kinda like a woofer at 20 hz and a tweeter at 20,000 hz...

I know enough about electronics to be dangerous

Raf

 

This is a "power subtracter" project, not a "power adder".

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...car-water.html

 

The schematics look the same as the ones I got my hands into, but the rest of the handbook (instructions), mine look much more proffesionally made.

I have friend who just told me that he has a friend that has a pickup truck running just with water only. He does have a bank of about three batteries on the rear just to convert the water to gas. He charges the batteries at home or something like that. Oh and another thing he also told me that he has some serious burns in his hands and chin due to not being carefull enough while working with the system. Hydrogen is much more powerfull than gasoline, is logical we just need to be much more cautious when working with it.

 

From what I've heard, it takes more energy to seperate the atoms than hydrogen produces....

Is this really possible? If it is, it can't be new technology, and what has stopped it from becoming a fuel for travel?

 

Hydrogen is considerably less powerful than gasoline.

 

That's the problem. Any on-car system you devise to separate hydrogen from water will necessarily have internal losses, which will result in a net loss of energy. It doesn't matter if you mess around with microprocessors, high-frequency waves, pulse generators, or if you believe in the steaming green pile of pseudo-scientific horse crap called "Brown's Gas".

Legitimate hydrogen powered cars don't really use hydrogen as a fuel, it's more of a convenient energy-storage and transportation mechanism. Electrical energy is used to separate hydrogen from water, distributed, and then allowed to recombine with oxygen to create water again in the engine, releasing the potential energy that was added during the decomposition of the water. It's still a net-loss system, it still takes more energy to decompose the hydrogen than you get out of it when you burn it. The advantage is that the electricity to produce hydrogen can be produced by "clean" and carbon-neutral sources of electricity, like solar, hydro, wind, nuclear, whatever.

 

Here's my two cents, make lighter cars, drive smart=less need (requirement) for super safe heavy cars. Cars in europe are way lighter.

Also we should turn all stop signs into yeilds. Most of europe is this way, and it works well. How much fuel do you think we could save from not fully stopping? I bet it would be significant. Huge waste of energy.

 

www.waterpoweredcar.com Nifty website!

 

Very interesting, here's a link from that site.
http://pesn.com/2006/04/16/9600261_J..._instructions/

I'm skeptical of just about everything until I see it in person, but there seems to be a lot of work going into this, and no one is pushing you to buy their product like scams often do. I've heard stories of "conspiracy theories" and people building "free energy" engines, only to have some guys (generally supposed big oil dogs) threaten them.

One guy, most of us should know, Smokey Yunik. I have heard he invented some engines that were very efficient, and the patents were "bought", and have been buried.

 

Ah, Smokey Yunik's Hot Vapor Engine...

Supposedly the gasoline in vapor form has more surface area (many tiny particles as opposed to one big one)...

I thought I heard the patents expired...

I remember companies saying / trying but couldn't control detonation (high temp's)...

There were 3 "secrets" to the engine, of which he told / showed 2 of them...

I wonder if he added water (as done with blown engines) to control detonation???

Just read recently that adding water, "the octane rating of water is virtually infinite... "how high would the compression need to be to get water to detonate?"... and water will cool the peak temps... Examples of a 17:1 compression tractor engine that ran on Kerosene (less than 50 octane) and water injection.... or 1100 hp 350 chevy running 35 psi boost on 87 octane... water injection works"

The Fiero he made with that engine was on Horsepower TV about a year ago... it ran, but it also had some technical difficulties

I read there is a working one at the University of Central Florida (where I graduated from) about an hour from Daytona... Would love to go see it

More info on that engine...
http://schou.dk/hvce/

Rafael

 

Nice read....

 

Of course it is, because water doesn't burn. It's the product of burning.

 

My dutch isnt that good...

I've heard the octane rating of diesel is infinite, though its rated in septane.

 

here is where the real info is at...http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/4,503,833

i think what should be noted is the repeated mention of an electronic spark ignition... so most deisel principals go out the window... however the engines he picked 4cyl/2cyl... could turn around 5/6k rpms and still be effiecent however his peak numbers were down in the 4k range much like a deisel... also the repeated mention of 13deg of crankshaft rotation with the piston within .001 of TDC... tolerance like that should have extra attention payed to its importance.

what sorta makes me wonder is why this design would produce more POWER than a early compound deisel which was designed without a intercooler as i am sure they see some pretty healthy charge temps but the power output isnt anything out of the ordinairy for the given amount of fuel/air charge

 

Octane rating and cetane ratings are different animals. Diesel doesn't have an infinite octane rating, but the octane rating is intended to measure the resistance to self-ignition. Diesel depends on self-ignition.

 

Apeiron, listen to this short synopsis about hydrogen being used as a fuel by Bob Lazar. Now, putting his "ufo" background to the side, he's still a credible scientist, and it's a very interesting interview nonetheless. There are more parts to the interview, but part 6 talks about the hydrogen, Click Here....

 

I'd watch, but I'd rather get kill brain cells the old fashioned way: with beer.

Bob Lazar is not a credible scientist.

 

I understand, many people feel the same way as you do about him....

 

Hydrogen as a fuel is viable, especially when it's stored in a metal matrix, and run through a fuel cell to generate electricity... Systems which burn hydrogen in an internal combustion engine, or store gaseous hydrogen, or worse yet separate hydrogen from water on the car, will never, ever be viable. Anyone who claims they have made a viable system is either hopelessly mistaken, or a deliberate fraud.

 

All true. The only way to get a "gain" using the system is to use wind, sun, geothermal, etc energy sources to create the hydrogen. I ran the numbers and it seemed like it was not worth it. I decided to play with wood chips instead. Although, if you have access to cheap deep cycle batteries, solar panels, etc then the hydrogen project but be worth a try.....or maybe just go electric.

I agree. I have been doing the motorcycle thing for years now getting 75-82 MPG with a bike that tops out at 105 MPH. Fill-ups aren't that bad at 4-5 gallons of 87 octane. Motorcycles are way lighter than any car. Oil changes are only about 2 quarts. The only downfall is adjusting/lubing the chain and adjusting valves once in a while.

Lots of Europe cars use small engines with turbos which gives better "normal driving" MPG. Kind of like why I put two T3 turbos of my 305ci TPI engine instead of going with a 454ci. I only need the extra power every once in a while and most of the time the engine is N/A small V8.

 

Legally blind guy building a Knight Rider replica chiming in again

Here is my 130 mile per gallon ride...

You can't buy this together, I bought an electric trike, it has about 10 mile range... I added a Honda Gas 4 stroke Generator and a Marine 24v Charger... I talked to all the engineers of the companies before buying / putting it all together... used all existing holes, only drilled 2 holes into Trike
Goes about 16 mph & still is considered an electric bike (no license) I just happen to be carrying a gas generator to charge it as I go





I wish a big company like Honda or someone would build something like this, unfortunately, the trike is made in Taiwan, we'll see how long it lasts... currently 500+ miles on it...

Raf

 

Gets similar mileage to my 50cc moped, that is pretty snazzy.

 

49cc moped I use to ride them in FL but they changed the laws... From Tampa Bay to St. Augustine and everywhere in between... 5 hours from Tampa to Orlando back roads, 3 hours from Orlando to St. Augustine...

When I finish my Knight Rider car, if I can only convince the cop that "sir, the car was driving "

Raf

 

Ya, those mopeds are a good time for just cruising around. MA laws are very lenient.... no insurance, 40 dollar registration for 2 years, just a drivers permit needed.

Now all you need to add is regenerative braking and a digital battery readout and you have a mini prius

 

really a mini prius... damnthings get any smaller and we will need to start breeding midgets to drive them...

 

So is the general concensus for the "Joe Cell" calling B.S.? I am by no means a chemist, and this makes no sense to me, nor does it make sense why its not used for running generators or whatever, but....

What do these people have to gain by preaching this information? Just adding to the conspiracy theories?

 

from what i understand and what junkcltr and apeiron are saying is that you will always expend more energy seperating H and O than the resulting energy pruduced by the burning of H and O there for you will always need an external reneable power source...

could it be used to run a intermittent generator... probably with a solar panel to charge the batterys seems possible

 

It is funny you say that. I never want to ride in one even though many say they are a nice vehicle. Although, it is probably a lot like being stuffed in a 1930's Ford Coupe.

It is all relative I guess. Most of the sport bike riders complain about the size of small bikes like the Ninja 250, GS250, etc. At the same time, the moped riders would like to be on something "that big".

If the water separation is powered by free energy (wind, sun, etc) then there is a gain. Price out some solar panels and a decent charger.....they aren't cheap. One can build a DIY windmill(s), but there isn't much wind in some areas. It is fun to play with though.

 

Don't forget nuclear, the only truly viable carbon free source we have left.


The rivers are all dammed, wind is too unreliable, solar is too expensive because it relies on rare elements...

 

Every time the topic comes up locally I always say nuclear is the way to go. Every one laughs at it. If you have a river/stream close by then that is a good option to change batteries with.


Yes, solar is expensive, but the parts last a long time. One other thing that many do not realize right now is electricity is relatively cheap. It hasn't increased at the rate it should have with the increasing fuel cost. The next rude awakening for consumers will be high electric bills.