Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Ok, so I have been kicking the idea around "alot"! So here is what I have been thinking of. I have a 327 sitting in my garage that will need a rebuild. I really want to build a turbo car, and I think a hi-revving 327 with a good stahl, or even a T-56 behind it would be just a giggle to drive. So I guess my questions are what would be the best way to do this on a budget. Or would it be smarter to start with a 5.3 or 6.0 from the jy? I haven't even started pricing out the parts yet, but I think i can get into a 6.0 jy motor for under 1k. I have been looking at like the 60 series turbo's, but maybe I would go bigger I want to go with a single turbo set up.

You tell me what you would do for as cheap as possible, because that is the buget I am on with this project. I have a great 87 IROC hard top that once it is running will need paint.

ZZ3Astro

It's hard to beat the LS and LQ motors for all out power. For what it will cost to put a decent set of heads on the 327 you would have a fuel injected LQ9 that is essentially turbo ready. Of course you have to deal with accessories and mounting vs the gen one block, but it all depends on what your intentions are. In my case, I stuck with the L98 because my Iroc was untouched when I found it. I'm trying to preserve the originality of it as much as possible while still being turbocharged. If I wanted to go as fast as possible as cheap as possible, it would have been 6L LQ9.

Mr355

I'm in the same boat he is. I want to build a turbo motor for my 88, and i dont really know where to start. Could we get with a list of parts? The engineering side i can handle. I dont need part numbers, rather the type of parts required would be best, and which companies are good quality. I've seen other guys build turbo motors on the site, but they arent very specific as to a parts list. I would prefer a carburetor setup, as this is extremely cost effective, but anything would get me farther than where I'm at.
I Dont mean to steal the thread! We have simlilar situations, another thread would be pointless.

Thanks,
Cameron

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

.... don't worry about building an LS based engine, just use your 327 and enjoy it. This is going to be a learning experience for you, so keep it cheap in the beginning until you get the hang of learning how to tune for the boost curve, then you can invest in a better engine when your better versed. The turbo, injectors, stall and cam must all work in harmony (which is your desired RPM, of course), so choose everything wisely.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yeah I think sticking to a 327 for now is a better bet to get used to the turbo system. I kinda wish I would have had more experience with a turbo setup before building my setup but overall its turning out great and only going to get better from here as I work out the small issues I have.

A decent set of heads and medium sized cam for 6000 rpm or so would work great with a single T76 turbo for up to 550-600whp. I think that would be a good setup.

T70 may do ok for 450-550whp. If you peak rpm around 5500 it would be abit better matched for the flow range of a T70 type turbo.

A good tune on decent internals should hold 550whp. I'd do forged pistons, any rods you want with good arp bolts, cast crank unless you want to spin alittle higher. 4 bolt main block for strength. Should be about as cheap as you could get and still hold 550whp.

Basic turbo system:
--Manifolds--headers or log style, doesnt really matter but would depend on what hp you want.
For single turbo, both banks need to come together in a merge to a turbo flange. A bigger single turbo should be braced and not hung from the flange. Could crack the pipes. Twins need flange at the end of the header/log manifold somewhere.

--Turbos sized for the application.

--Wastegate. Twin turbo need 1 wastegate per bank. Single can use 1 BIG wastegate before the turbo flange. Most twin setups can use 38-44mm gates. A single turbo may need a 50-60mm gate and some race singles can use two wastegates 44-60mm. All depends on how well you want to control the boost. Smaller gate doesnt flow as much exhaust so it may not beable to bleed off pressure enough to control boost. they come with a set spring for set boost pressure. Adjust spring as necessary and get a boost controller for more control if you want variable boost setup.

-- Downpipes. This is the exhaust exit from the turbine side. Use the biggest you can fit. Most turbos for twins use 3" downpipes per side. Lower hp setups can use 2.5". Singles can use anywhere from 3" for lower hp setups all the way up to 6" for race setup. Most street big singles use 3.5-4" downpipes.

Thats your basic hotside.

Cold side will need:
-- charge piping from compressor to throttlebody/carb. Anywhere from 2 to 3" piping is common for twins, singles can have 3"-3.5", but 3" usually does a great job feeding most cars. Silicone couplers and hoseclamps as necessary for connections.

-- intercooler is recommended but not always needed.

-- Blow off valve (BOV) is usually a good idea to control boost after throttle stops. A good 50mm BOV is good enough. Its spring controlled based on manifold vacuum, so it needs spring matched to the motor. Shim the spring as necessary to ensure BOV is staying shut when boost is coming on and opens when throttle closed to relieve excess pressure.

Thats basically it for cold side piping.


Misc. important items.

--turbo oil feed and drain. Supply line from block to turbo inlet is usually -4an. Drain is usually gravity drain, bigger is better. -10an or -12an is nice. Can use equivalent sizes if not using braided hose. tap or weld on bungs for the oil pan to drain to. Put them next to the main caps so windage doesnt hold up oil flow.

-- many vacuum fittings/lines from intake to wastegates and for BOV and boost controllers if you are running one.

-- Air intake for the turbo side. Just like a normal CAI but use a big filter to make sure its not a restriction. Also make sure it has a rugged design so the element is not sucked together or into the turbo.


Thats your basic turbo system. Not all that much to it. The cam/heads/motor/induction side will vary. carb setup or EFI, parts change/prices change/etc.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I would go with the LM7 5.3 liter. By the time you rebuild the 327 you will have more into it than buying a used 5.3 that will make more power because of better flowing heads. Overall, a better design in general.

Every time I look at one of the 327/350/400 I have that need a rebuild I think what a waste I collect them when the LM7 units are so cheap now. I would grab a junkyard LM7 and leave it stock with a decent sized turbo and a megasquirt running the EFI.

If that 327ci you have was ready to go then I would use that, but since it needs a rebuild then just the boring, crank work, and parts will cost way more than a used LM7.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

LSx swap does seem like a better idea since the motor is ready to go as is and will make good numbers with little effort.

tuning software costs and swap costs will make or break the project. 600 for LSX tuning stuff, plus swap stuff could add up.

Its a tough call since if you want a higher revving sbc EFI car you will spend alot more than what the 5.3 with a LS6 intake will give you but the work of swapping one in, rewiring the harness, transmission, tuning costs, etc start to add up abit. I've seen 4.8's hold up to 700whp at over 7000 rpm, with nothing but rod bolts. Pretty stout motors if you tune right.

daverr

iTrader: (1)

I dont see how a LSx motor straight from the junkyard is ready to go. Taking a 50k-150k junkyard engine and 2x,3x its power output without doing anything internal to a engine is wishful thinking. These LSx engines u find in the junkyard are not meant for forced induction. You would have take the junkyard engine and upgrade the internals to make it compatible with forced induction. By then your not far away moneywise to a built SBC,BBC, or LSX which by the way are not prone to lift the head like your typical 4 bolt head junkyard LSx engine.Cheap and fast dont go together.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Actually most of the 4.8-6.0 liter truck motors make for great forced induction motors out of the box. Alot of guys well up over 500whp on stock internals with good tune. They are truely the best bang for the buck. Their internals are stronger than older generation I and II factory motors.

My friend's 4.8 motor made 702whp spinning up over 7000 rpm with a 88mm turbo. Stock internals except for stronger rod bolts. Didnt even resize the rod ends, just took one bolt out and inserted a new stronger rod bolt. Torque them down 3 times on each bolt and it lived.

You can see alot of fast stock internal builds on many of the lsx sites and turboforums. Fastest stock Ls1 bottom end went 9.3's at over 145mph I believe it was. That was with stock 317 truck heads, a turbo cam on stock LS1 shortblock.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Just my opinion. I would go with a used 5.3 LM7 (widely available cheap) and Megasquirt and harness with crank trigger (cheaper and easier than LSx software).

Mr355

Thanks for the list, it was very informational. One more thing though. I've heard Holley has an HP series carb with nitroprophyl floats and all that other fun stuff that is forced induction/blow thru ready. Any idea on which one to use? When i build this motor, it wont push more than 9 psi, as i dont have the money for building up a small block that far. But any advice on a cfm the carb should be? I do know that fuel pressure will need to rise 1psi for every psi of boost, and holleys take roughly 6psi of fuel at WOT? So i need a fuel pump that has capabilities of 19psi(to be safe) and a regulator that brings up the fuel pressure. what size fuel line to and from the pump do i need to achieve the correct pressure? Oh and whats the deal with oil coolers? I have a remot mount oil filter with the cooler on the filtered side. Do i cool it again before the turbo? And where does the oil come from for the turbo?

Thanks again!
Cameron

Mr355

Oh i forgot, what about the ignition on a carburated motor? Am i going with a digital msd or what about a magneto? Thanks!!

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Just call The Carb Shop and be done with it....

You want no more than 650-cfm, and even then I would recommend a 600-cfm unit. If your shooting for 9-psi, then you will want to run a fuel pump capable of delivering 20-psi (base pressure + boost pressure + line losses), and that is with an adjustable regulator. If your running a dead-head fuel regulator, you will need a 35-psi fuel pump....

With only 9-psi being your goal, just run the stock lines, as an adjustable regulator will increase fuel pressure upon demand, it simply has no choice....

No, you don't need to cool it before the turbo, and you can tap into the pressure back where your oil pressure switch is....

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Well, I have been giving both options a lot of thought. Now I know that there is everything under the sun available for the old sbc. But with a new ls series motor I think the money would be better spent on the newer of the 2.

By the time I get a good set of heads for the sbc, around 1500-2000 I could have a 6.0 with an ls1 intake, and headers built. Now, I would have to get the rotating assembly in order and I can do that rather cheaply, but machine work to the block is not cheap, and never free. Then it's on to the intake side, while I would love to go fuel injection, but I think this might be a little expensive, so I think I would be going blow through, now this isn't cheap either, but in the long run I think it might be cheaper than a FI system, and possibly easier to tune. There are companies like C&S Racing carbs that will build a carb to order. You will have some tuning but nothing like starting from scratch on a FI system. I would be looking at the walboro 255 in-tank fuel pump with an aeromotive boost reference regulator I forget the PN though.

All that being said I have this crazy idea of doing a remote/rear mount system on a ls series motor. I do know that there are draw backs to these systems but the bang for the buck, I don't think that you can beat these systems as far as I am concerned. Which is what I am looking for. Hell at this point I am ready to throw the 327 in and spray the s#$% out of it. I am at a cross road here and am not sure which way to go, and it is pissing me off. Just frustrating the hell out of me!!!

Thanks for all the info, and I look forward to hearing any input. Or should I just get the 6.0 and do the cam and valve train, intake, headers. and do the turbo system at a later date. I really want to do this, NO! This car will have a turbo system on it in the next 1-2 yrs or sooner.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Why would it be money better spent? Maybe in terms of resale value, sure, but if your just looking to run a particular number, then just use the 327 that you already have. We're headed to the EFI event this Saturday over at Raceway Park, and all of the turbo guys that I hang out with are running well into the tens w/less cubes than your 327, and tiny 1.72 intake valves. You can build your 327 w/forged parts for fairly cheap, order the right reverse split cam, and you can pick up an older set of 2.02 heads w/76cc on ebay and work them. Do you have any idea how much power your 327 is capable of lol....?

Mr355

Yea i'd have to agree with street lethal on that one, your 327 has wicked potential. But I'm old school. Thanks for all the help guys. WHen i buy my ebay kit, I'll be sure to post the install up here becuase i know i'll mess something up and someone can point out some stuff i dont know.

Cameron

p.s On the ebay kit, the turbo that comes with the kit sucks, its chinese or something. Anyone have a pn or somewhere i should go to find out which turbo i need? Shootin for 9psi and its a .060 over 350. Thank you

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, the old school 327 has wicked potential. Got one in my Camaro with good heads on it. The new LM7 5.3 / 324ci has massive-way-wicked-totally-awesome potential compared to the old school 327.
The old school 327 is a money pit when compared to the new LM7..........been there done that.

That ebay kit isn't going to fit right out of the box, never mind you messing anything up. Install pics would be great. The entire ebay kit is Chinese made. Old school block bored .060" = thin flexable walls not good for boost

If you had an old 327ci ready to go or only needed a couple hundred dollars worth of parts then I would use it, but if it needs machine work and parts then I would not use it.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

So true. I dump money into the older blocks only to find that the same amount of money would have got me a much faster setup using a yr 2000+ engine.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

So if I was to tell you that I have a set of these heads that you are talking about, 2.02 and 76cc chambers. How would you work them? Just clean them up or some serious porting? Now you are starting to sway me in the direction of the 327. If I was to llok for a T-76 would I be better off with a AR of .68 or .81? And would it be better to buy some cheap ebay headers or will log manifolds work just as good. I am pretty sure I can build either, but I think the log style would be easier to build. Your opinion would help here.

realrider88

Make sure you get a big ole intercooler, preferably 3 core

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

No serious porting needed, just smooth them out and port match where needed....

The key there lies w/some other details; stall size, gearing, tire size, etc. Much like the ever varying camshaft selection, you want a healthy balance of parts to compliment it, as well as balance everything out....

If your planning on running a T-76 turbo on your 327, log manifolds will work just fine, trust me. Here is a 327-SBC that my buddy just picked up and installed in his T-Type Regal, and its running ceramic coated log manifolds. The car is running twin 60-1 turbo's, and has already been in the 8's....

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

OK so 327 it is! Going to tear into it his afternoon/evening! I hope everything is good in this motor. This is gonna be a long summer of waiting. But I did strike a deal with one of my bud's that's a painter, so this fall/winter the car will be getting a new paint job in fresh arctic white w/gold ss stripes. Will I need a new hood cowl induction? Or do you think I can fit a single t-76 under the stock hood? Any way, I was told by one of the guys over at CSU Carbs, that the stock camel back heads would be good for this application. Can you tell me why I should use the other 76cc heads, rather than the camel backs? And I will need a little help with the cam selection. I think a 3200 stahl, in a turbo 350, and I have the stock 9 bolt in the car. I think I read that they are a 3.73 g/r posi. Thanks for the help ahead of time!

zachkuby87

any updates? my bro has been doin nothin but talkin about building a turbo 327 for his 85 z he already bought a complete motor but has never built an engine before so were ripping the 305 out of our parts car and using that as his learning tool on how to build motors before we destroy a 327 lol any and all info would be useful for us as a guide and its an awesome idea btw i guess great minds think alike lmao

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Ok, so its been a year and I haven't got my car done yet.
Just to give you guys an update. the 327 program fell through at the last minute. So, I went and bought a LM7 5.3. I have been piecing this car together for the last couple of years now, and I think its gonna be pretty bad *** when I get it finished.
Ok, so here is what I am thinking. So far I have pretty much everything for the motor, ls6 intake, psi race valve springs, 42# injectors, a nos system, hehe. I will be needing a clutch, t-76 turbo not sure on the ar .96 or .81, which would spool faster? I will also be looking for waste gates, and BOV in the near future. Now onto the intercooler I have been looking at the frozen boost.com 600hp kit. Would this be a better alternative to a air to air IC. And of course I am thinking about meth injection if I dont use the water to air IC. I am really looking to make around 5-550hp at the crank, I think that will keep me happy until I kill the T-5, or the rear end. Am I missing something? I always forget something.

BANDITSBC

yep,,, your missing a transmission! t5 won't last you long at all so have a back up plan