noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

I like it

alex91z28

looks great.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

well I was going to coat everything, but i could buy a new hotside for the price of coating so I VHT rattle canned (and baked) the headers, and wrapping the rest. When/if the hotside fails I'll redo it in stainless all i have left to do is clean/paint the engine and put it all back together

headers coated, ready for the oven:



hotside cleaned ready for wrap and painted the water pump:

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

ok i was real sick the other day so i didnt come by. but i need to get by there sail one day and check it all out in person. that looks really good man. what color on the engine.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

That or just do simple logs in sch. 40 mild steel pipe and weld els. Thats what I may do if it ever gets that far. I dont see the wrapped mild steel failing anytime soon with turbo braced up and a good tune. Cracks? just keep rewelding/patching as needed til it all crumbles. Logs may not be as efficient as a header but oh well, just run more boost as needed to make up for it.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

just gimme a call whenever, I'm here for 2 more weeks and I'm at the shop 7 days a week LOL. I'm gonna do the whole motor silver, block painted, water pump painted, heads/acc brackets/alt/intake stay as cast aluminum, pullies black, a/c compressor black, intake elbows are black, charge pipes polished Al, hotside silver with black wrap, turbo polished, bah blah blah, Basically everything will be black, red/maroon, and silver

I'm hoping this setup will last, It should but if it doesn't bigger turbo and new hotside! hahahaha

I may try to cast my own custom manifolds if the header deal doesn't play out well. Casting stuff is pretty easy as long as you can melt some iron to pour

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

VHT'd the welds, the rest is aluminized so I didn't paint it and just wrapped it. Need more wrap to finish the waste gate tube and the down pipe, hopefully I can find some tomorrow. Pressure washing and degreasing the motor tomorrow, a little paint, then stabbing it all back in!





I'm at bit of a crossroad on what to do with my clutch/trans... Since it's an LT1 the only clutch options are up to about 500hp for $400ish, then its $1200 for the next step (twin disc good to 1200hp). I think I'm gonna stay with what I have until it gives up the ghost or I have the cash for the big boy clutch... sucks.

On top of that I have a vibration I can't figure out, its not the wheels/rear/DS all of that is new or balanced since I noticed the vibration. past about 65/70 MPH I get a relatively high frequency and powerful vibration that is speed related since it's the same in an gear, neutral, clutch in or out. I think it's my tail bushing and or yoke but I'm not sure there is 1/32" or a bit more side to side (or up and down) playwhen the driveshaft yoke is inserted into the tail housing and the seal has a small leak (the yoke does not seem worn but I have not mic'd it yet), could be internal trans... A total rebuild is only $680 with billet forks/pads and carbon syncros but again thats money/time I dont have right now and I just want to get the car on the road even if its with 1 psi, but that means I'll have to pull the trans AGAIN to fix it. /rant LOL

If anyone local knows there way around a t56 or has experience with play/tolerances for a yoke and tail housing in general and could take a 5 minute look at it it would be great, My option is that its just the bushing but this is my first time with such a little transmission, I'm used to BIG slow diesel transmissions where an 1/8" of play is ok, and this high rpm gasser trans seems like it should have super tight tolerances to me but what do I know... (very little!)

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

If it does it whether it's in gear, nuetral, clutch in or clutch out, I would be VERY surprised if it actually was the tranny. 99% of all tranny problems I've ever seen will stop or go away whether it's in or out of gear (ussually out of gear). I would look at the driveshaft or if you have an adjustable torque arm, make sure the angle is right. My brothers car has a pretty tight U-joint on the driveshaft (axle end) that he has to have fixed. Thought it was bad so we installed a new one but it was still tight. I think the drivesahft may be slightly bent, and right around 70 mph and up it has a very noticeable vibration that just gets more and more violent the faster you go. It's not just the steering wheel or shifter either, it's like the whole car is vibrating. I would def check out your drivesahft before anything. If in doubt, new U-joints are like 13$ a piece.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

that is exactly how it feels, it's scary almost


I've done u joints twice, DS balanced, new rims/tires, new rear end, and it's still there but since its independent of gear/clutch manipulation I assume its the yoke/bushing/output shaft since that is the same regardless of gear/clutch. I guess I'll throw it all back together, new front u-joint since the new one does have a spot where it sticks, and double triple quadruple check the driveline angle, if that fails to fix it I'll borrow a known to be good DS and see. You have no idea how badly I want you to be right that it's the DS even though that means my 3.5" custom CM bad *** shaft is trash

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Haha well I'll have my fingers crossed for ya. My brother has a custom made aluminum shaft as well, but it's had the vibration since he got it. The trans is an RPM built viper spec T56 thats almost new so I am 100% sure thats not it. The U-joint should move freely when you wiggle it, and if it binds up or gets really tight in any spots then that may very well be causing your vibration. Like I said, my brother and I have gone through his and thats what it comes down to the problem being. When that driveshaft is spinning as fast as it does at 70+ mph, even a little bind will be multiplied by a lot with all that force on it. It should move nice and free at all times.

BTW, progress is looking great. Love the way turbo pipe looks all wrapped up! Can't wait to see some more done.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Guy on this board, 87_TA, runs a strong nitrous 406 thats been 9.4's over 146mph. T56 car using spec 3 clutch. He used that for years and its held up to the abuse. 1.3x-1.4x 60 foots and its not rated that high I dont think.

His setup could use a twin disk or slipper clutch to be optimal but its doing a great job holding that power.

Some other guys I've talked to say they liked their Spec 3 clutches as well

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

hmm the spec clutches do look like they'll work, dont know how i missed them. thanks Orr!

34blazer

dont know much about the t56 but maybe the tailshaft bushing is toast? also, maybe check for grooves one the yoke too

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

pinion angle?

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

thats what I was thinking but the play in the yoke/tailhouseing is "normal" according to the threads and vids in some thread on ls1tech and some other 4th gen boards. I also suspect the yoke is worn but i cant feel any grooves, or see a low spot with a straight edge. my miroeter isnt a very sensitive one so I cant tell with that either, but if it's worn is very little wear

hard to do that with the motor/trans out, I have a spohn adjsutable TQ arm and I set the pinion angle to what I though was correct last time I tried to sort this issue out. the thing I run into is the trans and rear result in
[trans] \ ___[DS]___ / [pinion]
if that makes sense, they both point down which I beleive is wrong and I cant remeber if I was able to fix that last time I adjusted it. The correct way is like this right?
[trans] \ ___[DS]___ \[pinion]

I used a how to and set is to like -2 last time (if I did it correctly)

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

everything is ready to go back together tomorrow! I cleaned the motor today, new pilot bushing, finished wrapping the hotside, gonna clean the shop and start assembly tomorrow

clean motor:



new pilot bushing:



wrapped hotside:

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

got the motor in last night and fixed the brakes (have not tested if they leak though, got the last few pieces painted up, going to do the final install and hopefully start her up tonight

hotside silicone sealed



motor and transmission reunited



up on the hoist, the bag is to catch the little bit of fluid still left in the trans



to everyone who says you can't pull/insert the motor with the dizzy on... I did it WITH a long t56 trans attached with ZERO issues.



in and looking good



different angle



now the fun part, installing all new and clean parts for a few hours, that I know fit and work!

texascat2

Awesome job!

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Damn you move fast! Wish I could say the same on my build lol. Things looking great man! Can't wait to see that nice engine bay filled up a little more.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

as a quick roundabouts check, toss the angle finder on the ds and then the pinion yoke on the rearend. the difference between the 2 angles should be 2-3 degrees or so. a friend of mine was having trouble like you are describing on his car, and i measured something crazy like 15 degrees of pinion angle. vibrated like crazy.

how is the plug access with those headers on the LT1 heads?

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

whitedevil - yeah I've bee busting my butt because I want to drive it a few times before I go back up to school. I have about 1/3 of the stuff back in now, its looking nice

ok when I get the DS back in I'll check it out and post up my findings

they are "113" aluminum corvette L98 heads I believe, unless you see something that indicates they are lt1 heads? But to answer your question the plug access is great since I'm running the headers upside down, look at post 76 and you can see the passenger side plugs from below, the drivers side looks the same without the down pipe. From the top plug access is still very good

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

forgive me, im mixed up. lol

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

aw man, I was hoping you were right, then I may have non-hyper pistons too! oh well

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

ok well it's pretty much done! (aside from forging the motor and putting in a nice clutch but that's down the road )

I did find an elbow that would work for my intake, spectre PN:9781



I have been having issues with my brakes, and I had a crappy brake line for the front pass side so I redid that and put a new master in, all should be well now I hope.

I did the line repair first, here is my arsenal of tools, one of these doesn't belong..... yeah thats how well my line repair went



but i got it done:



and bench bleeding the new master:



I used copper RTV on all of my flanges like most turbo guys do, i put it one kinda thick and am concerned it will break off and go through the turbo but oh well I'm risking it LOL

headers on:

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

down pipe and some accessories:



turbo all bolted up:





how I did the cold side piping:





pretty much done except some plugging the harness back in and some clamps/hoses for the small things!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

so this is probably a stupid question, but am I going to have to relocate all of my vacuum lines?

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

there's shouldn't be a vacuum big enough on the intake side of the turbo lol

put a vacuum manifold off the brake booster line and run everything off of that.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

why would there not be a vacuum on the intake side of the turbo? there HAS to be. I'm talking pre-compressor wheel, between the filter and turbo

what is a vacuum manifold? like a vacuum canister?

89lt1

iTrader: (6)

i would run everything off a vac. canister with a check valve between the canister and manifold

34blazer

all the smog accessories run during part throttle driving, should be vacuum there just put a check valve to keep positive pressure from reaching them under boost.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

well all that I have running on vacuum is a/c, cruise, and brakes so a check valve would work for cruise and a/c, not like those are gonna be on under boost. The brakes though... Hmm I'd rather go with a constant positive vacuum than a canister for simplicity's sake, along with the fact I'm nearly out of room under the hood

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Factory brake booster has a check valve in it. Run the brake vacuum line to the intake and dont worry about it. I've seen 18psi here and never blown off a hose or hurt my booster that I know of.

Under WOT with boost, soon as you let off the gas, the pressure is released by the BOV and engine now is making vacuum so the brakes come back. The booster stores vacuum from the last highest vacuum reading it received until you press the pedal.

To brake boost at a stand still, just hold brake down and hit the gas. Once the brakes are pressed, boost will not change anything. Brakes are already clamped and holding.

All my other vacuum lines are to the intake as well. If you ran a PCV system like factory, then you need a strong check valve or run the vacuum to the compressor side of the turbo but becareful of sucking oil into the compressor!! Need a oil-air separator installed between intake and manifold.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

ok awesome, I knew it wasn't as complicated as I was trying to make it

for the PVC system, I'm currently at stock configuration I think, 1 PVC valve on each valve cover, both going to the intake, one at the back, one just behind the throttle body. To run a catch can I need to run both of those lines to the catch can (air/fluid separator) and then to the intake plenum? I have read there needs to be a fresh air makeup but I'm not really understanding the system, but I though it was better to have a vacuum in the crank case

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

I still need to think up how I'm going to run my PCV system. I don't want to run my valve covers back into the intake manifold so I need to figure something out. A buddy of mine with a supercharged viper was telling me how he's planning on running both valve covers to the exhaust. That way the exhaust flow actually pulls the crancase fumes out and they burn up in the exhaust stream. Sounds pretty simple, and is a cool concept so I may look up on it. Not sure if theres any tricks to that method or how well it works.

Car is coming together nice by the way. Lets hear some dyno numbers soon!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

I'm not sure the exhaust will pull enough vacuum, and your gonna have to have a well designed setup to get that to work. You need high velocity exhaust gas that's not under much pressure AND a good fitting to tie into the exhaust to produce a decent vacuum

haha dyno numbers... Probably not until summer sadly, school starts in a week plus I'm still rocking hyper pistons so it wont see too much boost for a while

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I just vent both valvecovers to a big moroso catch can and its working fine. I actually get very little oil coming out of the covers. NO idea what my crank case pressure is if any pressure exists, but I dont have oil coming out of anything in or on the motor so I think all is good.

If you wanted to run a PCV to the intake to use vacuum to suck vapors out of the crank case like the factory, you need some checkvalves.

If you ran to the turbo air intake side, there will be alittle bit of vacuum there but depending on the system there may not be alot at cruise speeds like the intake plenum would see. But assume there is vacuum, you'd need a separator like this:


Another option is this: basically check valve system for boost
http://www.et-performance.com/turbo.html

i may be looking into trying that system

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Believe it or not, the exhaust mounted evac setup works great as long as it's set up correctly. V8 drag racers have been using this setup for a LONG time. Only thing is that the exhaust has to be free flowing past the fitting, so if you have a muffler, it may not work great. I'll have a straight through exhaust and "bullet" style muffler so it'll be fine. It also will make more vacuum the closer it is to where the downpipe comes out of the turbo. I'm sure 3-4 feet back will still make plenty of vacuum though. There are special weld fittings that are curved that go into the exhaust and use the flow to create vacuum. Then you add a metal one way chack valve to prevent the chance of exhaust gasses getting to the motor and your good to go. Heres a pic I found on a turbo setup after a quick search.



People say that the optimum setup would be to use a catch can connected to both valve covers, and then run a line from the top of the can to this exhaust vacuum source, but thats really to prevent any smoking out of the exhaust from possible oil burning up in it. Just seems like a cool method to me, and I like the fact that theres no need to add an expensive vac pump when you can let the engines exhaust flow do it for ya!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

orr -

oh ok so you just let the pressure in the crank case push hte vapor into the catch can which is vented to air, gotcha. thats simple enough.


white devil -

that would be nice to save some cash, it would be interesting to see a reading on how much vacuum those setups actually pull. I know it can be done it but if the flow over the fitting isn't just right I could see it being unable to develop much of a low pressure but maybe thats all it needs since the crank case is at a somewhat positive pressure? hmm I'll have to look into this more

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Some guy said he played around with it a bit with a vacuum gauge since he was curious, and he was getting about 10 inches of vacuum through one of those exhaust setups. I don't know how it works to be completely honest with you, but it does I guess haha.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

you'd be suprised how much vacuum it creates. my car at an idle will suck my thumb to the hose that goes to the valvecover with quite a pull. at wot turning 6500 rpms there should be a ton of vacuum. still not as much as a vacuum pump, but it works great. you may have to replace those header valves once in awhile if you street drive it a good bit.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I'd be alittle nervous on a turbo setup tho.. the downpipe is receiving high pressure exhaust from the waste gate. I hope it gets reduced enough by the time you get to the evap system on the exhaust. Else it would seem you'd have some backpressure in the exhaust...especially if you run FULL exhaust with mufflers all teh way back out the rear of the car. Thats alot of pipe and theres alot of flow losses with all the straight runs and bends. Need a larger system to reduce some of the pressure and really high flowing muffler, which by that point really doesnt muffle anymore

Exhaust evap works great on headers with good collectors because theres a high velocity point there that creates a vacuum to "suck" on the exhaust ports. This is how you make power and that suction can be used to evacuate the crank case...but you dont have that on a turbo system..its just one open pipe of constant cross sectional area.

I never tried it so I dont know. I just know when you have a pin hole in the exhaust, you have black soot around that hole. Air is coming OUT not sucking inward.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

they just work off the same principles as some of the blow off guns.... they put holes in the end of the nozzle so the air flowing through the end will pull in additional air and increase volume. as long as you have good velocity running through the exhaust, the system should work fine. thats what i think, anyway.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I guess that makes sense...its been along time since i had fluid flow dynamics classes...and I dont remember alot of the subject

34blazer

ive never seen a PCV exhaust EVAC on a turbocharged engine. if it were me id just make a oil separator or buy one and hook it to manifold vacuum or turbo inlet, or vacuum pump

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Theres a lot of good and bad points to each system. The main problem with the non-vacuum catch can set ups is that you are trying to get the harmful combustion gasses and moisture out of the engine by going uphill essentially to the top of the motor, and your relying on pressure created inside the crankcase to "push" the gasses out. This gives the moisture plenty of time to mix with oil and create a harmful engine condition. Now I know, most turbo street motors will "most likely" blow due to stress before blowing because of a crankcase moisture problem...I just like to do it the best way first.

The vacuum pump operated systems are great as well, and really don't have many downfalls except cost...which is the main reason I'm straying away from that idea.

The exhaust set up seems, IMO, to be the most reliable and best for a street car. I really don't see how running the fitting into a turbo downpipe will be any different than running it into a header collector. After all, turbo's create much more heat and velocity than an N/A motor would. Chances are if you are running a turbo setup, you are not going to have a restrictive muffler in line since thats a big power robber. The turbo basically acts like a muffler, so in reality, you really don't have to run a muffler at all. I have heard plenty of freinds cars that are very quiet with a dumped downpipe. The biggest tip I have heard when using this system is to try to locate the fitting on an area of the exhaust that is straight, and not on or right after a bend, and it should be golden.

Again, just my .02 cents. I know that the majorty of people run a setup like orr's with the valve covers just vented to a catch can, and you rarely hear of problems coming up. Having some kind of vacuum source is just a bit of a plus I guess.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i think the diesel tractor pull guys pretty much run a pipe out of the crankcase directed to the ground under the tractor. with 100+ psi of boost, it spews out like its an air compressor. lol

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

http://www.coloradospeed.com/index.p...ducts_id=17761

^^ Figured you may want to check this out. It's a bit pricey at $160 but after doing about 4 hours of research on LS1tech, it seems like one of the best options out there, and has a pretty clean install as well. I def think this is what I'll be going with on my setup. Claims it's for LSx motors, but will work on anything. It's a catch can system that has built in one-way check valves on the ports. You plumb one line to your valve cover, one line to your intake manifold vacuum source, and one line to the area between the air filter and turbo inlet. It uses the engines vacuum under normal cruising and idle to get gasses out of the crankcase, and then as soon as it senses boost, it closes the intake port and opens the turbo port, using the turbos "suction" to create a vacuum under boost. This way you ALWAYS have a suction source whether under boost or not. Looks pretty awesome!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Looks interesting but on my setup I will not have air intakes on the turbos, just open screens No place for inlet vacuum source

joepackersrock

So reading this thread has convinced me of a few things...

First of all I will be doing this to my car as soon as I have the money and facilities.

Second, as soon as I get out of college im taking a job in Texas. This was my poor baby last November...just a day after I finished digging it out from the last snow storm

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

what is that white stuff????

it's nice only having two seasons down here, but the summer heat is hard on stuff, 130+ degree heat cycles 90 times a year in the garage does bad stuff to cars/boats/anything

Well for an update I put in 13 hours today, 10 or so yesterday, and all thats left is to hook up the boost/vacuum reference lines to the WG and BOV, plug wires, and fashion a radiator overflow tank then I can start it up. Over the last couple days I re-loomed and rewired most of the harness, finished the intake, put the clamps on, did the exhaust, relocated the battery, new starter, buttoned up some loose ends etc. No new pics since it looks the same pretty much, I'll get a vid of it running in a day or two

So since I'm not going to tune this SOB for a month or two, how can I trick the waste-gate into staying open so I can take the dam thing for a drive on just a couple PSI? I assume I could just put a ball valve on the WG and hit it with compressed air at like 20psi (or just slightly higher than the WG spring rating) and close the valve when it's under pressure to keep the WG open? I cant imagine spooling the turbo with the WG open especially if I baby it, i don't want to blow the motor up on a test drive LOL