Can you run a p1sc without an intercooler? I'm concerned if it can even be clocked that way, and if the discharge temp is too high. I've run vortech and powerdyne without a IC.

-- Joe

 

You can clock the outlet of the blower however you want. Getting the air from the outlet of the blower to the TB is where the challenge will be.

 

How hard you gonna be working the blower? Temps get hot when you turn them fast trying to get out all the power you can. Not sure how much those blowers can support. The D1 i've seen as high as 800whp but that seems optimistic. I didnt think 800 would be possible and thought that was F1 range.

Either way, lower boost should be ok but the procharger mounts on sbc takes its "cold" air in over the exhaust header... so hot air in = hotter air out. Not a very good setup. I like intercoolers or go with a meth spray kit that activates on boost

 

Hrmm.. What prompted this is a local guy has a kit for sale, p1sc, brackets, head unit, pullies but NO ic or plumbing. $1500. Price seems fair. I'd have to swap heads and cam. Then again, it might be a huge expense in the end to gain 50hp over what I have now.

I was trying to get an idea how the p1sc compares to a s-trim for example, but have not really found much data other than guys on the mustang forum saying one is better than the other because the tooth fairy said so.

-- Joe

 

S-trim is rated to 680hp from Vortec..1000cfm, 50,000 rpm limit.

P1 from procharger is rated at 825 hp....1200cfm. 60-65,000 rpm limit depending on what model as there are 3 versions listed.

So the P1 is definately a stout little blower, better than S trim. Few PSI boost should net you alot more than 50hp. Question is,how much will it take before getting to hot? Doing some intercooler plumbing isnt all that difficult tho. Could use mild steel exhaust pipe if you cant work with aluminum. Cheap ebay air to air cooler up front, should do wonders.

 

Hrmm.. Tempting. Was thinking 76cc heads, a nx276 cam, and boost would make it idle like stock yet pull bottom 11s.. This is the 412" sbc.

-- Joe

 

have you ran the current setup (n/a) at the track yet? Curious how it would run. Either way some boost from a P1 should easily put you in the mid high 400whp range on a 412 with decent heads.

 

Nope. It's on my stand right now, doing suspension on the new thirdgen. I'm really curious what it would run in this thirdgen as well. I don't want to cage the car, so I'd like to keep the et around 11.60, but I'm hoping for a 120+ mph trap speed.

The 412 has an XR288HR-10 cam and afr 195 heads, on a singleplane EFI intake. 11:1 compression ratio. I don't know what it makes for horsepower. I've run simulations with EA, camquest, and desktop dyno all with differing outputs. EA gives the lowest estimate, screenshot attached.

If I go blower, I'd swap the heads for some larger chamber to get compression down to about 9.5 (76cc chamber), and swap to a NX286HR-13 camshaft.

When I simulate that, the difference is only like 50-80hp over my high comp n/a setup. Your thoughts?

-- Joe

 

if your gonna run around 6psi you can do it without an IC but you MUST run meth I have a paxton setup now i run 6psi with their water injection/meth setup no issues anything higher then that you'd be asking for trouble and my paxton has a 90 degree rubber elbow that lets me grab cold air under the driver's side in the front cover you would have to cut a hole near the evap canister would go and move the canister over alittle

 

I don't know what the efficiency of the paxton is like. When I had a vortech (S-trim) I could run 12-14 psi non intercooled, with about a 110* temp rise.

When I ran the powerdyne on the corvette, that was about 6psi non intercooled. You didn't even know it was there on that car. It was probably about 700CFM. The motor was 358 cubic inches with a singleplane and tfs heads. What is your combo?


-- Joe

 

Hey Joe,

I've got an old Test Report from 2005 (which was written by vortech). It directly compares a p1sc to an s-trim. You can form your own conclusions.

If you can provide me with a current email address either by email or pm, I can attach a copy (pdf).

 

Depends on how much boost you run but there should be more than a 50-80 hp difference.. My 400 with single plane and a mild 233 deg cam made around 600whp on 10 psi. Your n/a combo wouldnt be much over 420whp I'd say. Granted my car is turbo'd and intercooled but the power will be there with the blower.

If you did swap heads, i'd try atleast a 210cc-215cc runner and keep the cam in the 230's deg range with the blower. It would make big power up top.

 

I run an F1A without the intercooler. Not optimal but I am dipping into the tens now. I run 215cc heads with the biggest port intake I could find matched to a 90mm ls1 throttle body. From my research in building this motor I learned and decided to make everything as big as possible to let that air push through the engine as easily as possible. No need to worry about velocity when air is being pushed, not sucked.

 

stock 350 with just bolt on pieces no internal mods and the paxton

 

That's a big head unit

The only other concern is will this break my 2-bolt 400 block. I have a forged crank, rods, pistons, but the block is just a normal 2 bolt.

-- Joe

 

Maybe go with the smaller cam and dont rev so high. Those blocks generally dont like much more than 550hp and alot over 6000 rpm. I know lots of guys who run them to those powers and higher without major problems... 87TA on this board cracked his block after years of abuse with a 150-175 shot nitrous. Ran 10's all motor and high 9's on spray eventually. Started at a low 11's and low 10's on spray. Revving over 6500 on spray sometimes.

Keep boost lower and rpms lower it should help it live abit longer.

 

Well I own a procharger now...

-- Joe

 

That was quick! I am kinda looking for a P1SC kit myself.

 

Seemed like a good price. Came with brackets, pulleys, injectors, fmu, etc.

-- Joe

 

awesome news to hear, welcome to the procharger club!

 

I think you'll be happy with it. Keeping EFI or going carb?

 

Keeping EFI. It came with 42lb injectors, and my '730 can run $58/59. I may have to add a second pump though. I have a 255lph.

It came with 5 different blower pulleys, from 4.25 down to 3.44, so I have my boost options. Also came with an FMU, but I think I'd rather run 2/3-bar code.

Kid even threw in an ATI carb bonnet, which is great because I have a singleplane 4bbl, not a TPI.


I'm starting to consider the air to water IC's I was looking at back in 2008 when I had the powerdyne in the Corvette. Might be a good experiment. What do you think?

-- Joe

 

water to air works great. Can be smaller size too and mount easier. Just need to run it thru a different water system to keep it cool. Need a small electric pump and rig all that up.