I am throwing around the idea of a single turbo TPI 383 motor (HSR or mini ram manifold) in my 1969 camaro. I do not want a twin turbo setup because it will end up costing twice the amount and I don't want to put in twice the effort to fabricate it.
I can nab a Turbonetic TC78 (hurricane benita) with a 1.15 AR housing for $700 new. Car has a TH400, trans brake and 4.10s so I'm not worrying about turbo lag (TC78 is a smaller housing with a machined 78mm turbine anyway).


I don't doubt my fabrication on mild steel (can't weld stainless!) although the simpler I can keep it the better. I was wondering if I could do something along the lines of a set of block huggers or short tube headers and run a mandrel bent pipe under/in front of the oil pan, and then tap an up pipe somewhere above the passenger side of the oil pan. Like the following image:
This would be a simple non intercooled version for the sake of the simplicity of my drawing.


Is their any advantage to having the up pipe more centered between the exhaust? I've never seen a single set up like this, would it even work?

 

I know very little about turbos compared to some people on here, but I believe most people say a critical part of turbo placement is the oil drain back route. Remember the oil is under normal psi pressure until it hits the turbo then it's primary gravity drained back from the turbo to the pan. That's why most people talk about best routing path for the drain back hoses and sizing to use without sharp angles and tapping the pan high enough to keep the oil from collecting in that part of the pan. From you drawing the turbo would be so low you would probably need an inline oil pump to get it drain.

If you want some ideas for exhaust setups there are plenty of members here using single turbos using modified manifolds or shorty type headers. Don't overlook some forum sites online have guys who will make headers for your application too, usually they aren't too thick of metal though. BBS Designs are thick enough you could probably drive the car onto them, but they aren't officially back open yet and I don't know if they do earlier gens applications.

You just have to be careful what you pick because a lot of the crap around now is just going for bottom dollar and the metal looks pretty thin.

 

that'll work, its a very generalized drawing but yes you have everything in the correct order. I assume you know the WG needs to have an outlet pipe to a place that wont burn anything, and the turbo connects to the intake manifold and has a blow off valve in there. I do have something to add:

When you add the turbo to crossover pipe (with the waste gate on it) I would have the two pipe from the headers merge in a nice y then go to the turbo, a "T" will work but its far from ideal. having unequal length pipe form each header to turbo is not ideal either, but it will be fine lots and lots of people do it.

The setup you described is very similar to my setup, I use flipped block huggers and a single side mount tc76 turbo, so I can say YES it works (mine is just up and over rather than down and under the engine)

 

If youve never heard of it, i reccomend picking up
Maximum Boost by Corky Bell.
Excellent info and theory for designing a turbo system. Turbo,wastegate placement, oil drain angles,etc.
Ive used info learned from that book.
Mild steel will hold up well, i built a turbo system all out of mild steel for a corvette.
It uses a older t76. Makes 650rw hp on pump and been 700rw on e85. With 60lb. Injectors.
Not enough injector for e85 to make more.
Has been on an active daily driver 98 c5. Going on 7yrs. Now
I used vbands for all connections. No leaks. Uses a/a intercooler.
Looking to upgrade to a/w next year and upgrade with the newer ball bearing tc type turbos turbonetics is gonna release.

 

Hi,

We sold one single turbo header once to a 1960's Camaro owner although I dont know if he modified to fit his earlier chassis or not, he never sent pictures nor kept in touch with us.
Here is a pic of our setup, this might help you figure out if it will fit. By the way, not officially open yet(BBSDesigns turbo related website), but we still have the molds and still make headers from time to time. Our business is now oriented towards servicing the pharmaceutical/manufacture industry, but we still have the molds and everything needed to make turbo kits in our shop.

 

You could use block hugger or some generic shorty on driver side and really simplify things with a fabbed log. Simple as a flange, 2-3" stubouts dumping into a 2.5" pipe feeding to turbo flange. Driver side comes into that 2.5" pipe right at the turbo flange. Just gotta place things right cuz it gets tight in those areas depending what starter you have and what oil pan. Good thing is you likely can run 2"-2.5" pipe from passenger side to turbo and that small pipe is alot easier to route.

 

Thanks for the input guys.
I'm almost debating routing over the top instead (like sailtexas186548) or seeing if I can route the pipes underneath and merge them to an upward swept "y" where the flange/turbo will sit above the harmonic balancer. I guess once I get my headers off I will start taking measurements to see which way is better. The car is lowered about 1-1.5" in the front so I'm almost concerned to run it underneath the car unless I kept it towards the front of the oil pan and tucked it up tight to the pan (this way even a 3" pipe can sit tucked into my k-member).

I feel like I am getting very hung up on the diameter of all the pipes. Would larger pipes hurt anything; curious in case I want to change turbos in the future?
For instance I am currently only looking at 3" collectors on 1 5/8" primaries for block huggers, want to run a 3" pipe to connect the two headers and the biggest down pipe I can fit. (I have a fiberglass front end with no inner wheel wells so I have some extra room)... basically my idea for pipe diameter is "bigger is better", even if it doesn't help out with the TC78 (as long as it doesn't hurt it), it allows me to upgrade in the future and with it being a 1969 Camaro I don't think I'll be letting it go.

 

Larger will delay spool but support more power in the end but there are 1000+ hp cars using 2.5" feeds. Larger slows velocity down and loses more heat. Heat and velocity is energy to spool. My car uses 2.5" into each turbo. A milder single turbo can get away with 2" feeding into the flange. Larger is harder to route. Clearance is more of an issue.

Id neck down 3" to 2-2.5" and run both into a T4 flange

Downpipes, bigger is better

 

alright thanks. that really opens up my selection of headers to run lol.

So I want 2.5" pipes so I might as well go with a 2.5" collector; what size primaries should I look into?

 

Half decent heads and medium cam with hsr or miniram and 10 psi on that turbo should easily make 550-600 whp. 2.5" crossover is more than enough. I plan on each 2.5" to make 500 whp for 1000 total on my setup. So two 2.5" feed pipes should easily do 550-600. Not sure what you are looking for in power

 

Well I'm fabricating it based off the 355 that is in it but I am building a 383 and looking into a Callies Compstar crank, probably callies compstar rods and 8.5 or 9.1:1 pistons (whatever that would be). Haven't really gotten too in depth into my bottom end since I originally assembled my 383 with a cast crank/forged rods/forged -12cc dished piston setup to do a nitrous motor.

Heads are a set of Trick Flow Super 23* 195cc aluminum heads. I think they flow right around 260 cfm out of the box.

I'd like to shoot for however much power I can do from a stock block on pump fuel. It's going to be a street/strip car with limited miles. I'd have no issues with mixing in a few gallons of race fuel if need be since the car will see 1,000 miles or less a year.

 

With enough boost 750-800 whp may be possible. Not to familar with the limits on that tc78, but i have seen garrett gt4202's make 800. They are 74mm

 

heres a quote from Josh
I have run about 30 of them on LS1's ranging from 346ci to 370ci making anywhere from 550rwhp to a little over 800rwhp. They are damn good units for a small frame turbo. Hell use two TC78's. Thats when all the fun starts. Got a few cars in the low 8's and a couple in the 7's. Good times.

----------------------


For that size motor you will want the 1.15A/R for 6500rpms and 700+rwhp.

tc78 will fit great under the hood. Im in the middle of putting one under my hood on a 383 LT1

 

while josh@kyt may have good advice, i would stay the hell away from him and kyt

see:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-ind...s-friends.html

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...kentucky+turbo

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...kentucky+turbo

 

I do agree maybe I should have just left the link out.. No matter though the website is gone , etc...

Im just stating turbo results from when they did work and used the tc series turbos.

 

yeah the info was/is good for sure, they did produce some nice cars with the tc series, i'm using a tc also

 

Ohh ya I know you have a tc76 , correct. Im following your thread. I rather have your car then my own 383 turbo vert. Your car looks great.

 

I have been gathering information on everything, sailtexas has been talking to me via the private messaging and I have been picking his brain.
I am ready to order a TC78 with the 1.15 AR housing from Huron Speed; best deal I found at $721 with the larger AR. Most companies that are selling them for $721 want an extra $40-60 for the larger AR opening.

I have also been in contact with the company I am using for the headers to see if they can do some mild modifications to the headers before they ship them out. I want them built with as much plug and temp sensor clearance as possible while retaining a compact size unless I decide to route the piping underneath. I figure if I order the turbo and headers this weekend/week I will be ready to start designing two systems out of PVC to see which way is cleaner, easier clearance to all bolts/plugs/etc and if one way or the other allows me to run a larger down pipe.

 

sounds like you have a good like on what your looking to do. Who is making headers for you?

You could always do like one of my old systems. Flipped upside down corvette manifolds (c4) and make the rest yourself.
http://www.cecoatings.com/images/Car.../hotside304ss/

 

I contacted sanderson to pick their idea about their ultra small block huggers and see if they could modify them for an additional fee to clear the plugs better. I still don't know if I will be running the bulk of the turbo piping under the motor and out the front to a "y" for the flange or above like all the pictures posted here. If they have to be flipped up SailTexas has informed me I will need to cut the flanges off and flip them around (makes sense but it's stuff like this that you over think).
I do know from owning a few third gens that my 69 defiantly has more room in the engine bay and having no inner wheel wells and a manual steering rack helps give me even more room.

 

you just have to cut/grind part of the flange, no need to cut them all the way off

 

Heres a quick shot of my newest toy setup, budget build system, while keeping the AC. And i mean budget. Check out my build post, i included ALOT of pics so you can get some ideas.

 

I am currently in the process of swapping my 62-1 for a tc78 and 44mm wastegate. Best part is, the tc78 looks nearly identical to the 62-1, so most people will have no idea the car is capable of 200-300 more hp haha. The 62-1 is already off the car and sold, next spring it will be out and hopefully alittle faster.

 

Still waiting on my headers and turbo -.-

Looking into my options for fuel injection as of now. planned on buying a tpi harness/ecu and going with a HSR setup but I'm up in the air about one of those Holley EFI setups.

 

do a HSR and look into the 411 / lsx pcm swap.

 

I think the holley Dominator efi setup with boost controller module is in beta now. My friend has been constantly bitching about how he's waiting on the latest release for his twin setup and how current beta testers online are saying it's a decent improvement.

 

What is the difference in height and length between an HSR and a stock TPI unit? I'd like to mock up everything using the stock TPI unit but want to ensure I will not have to change anything after switching manifolds.

 

Hsr is a tad taller in front but not enough to make a difference. Think its also same distance from front of air cleaner snorkel because you can reuse the tpi air intake ducting on hsr with stock tpi throttlebody.

 

Thanks. I am purchasing a complete TPI setup/sensors/ecm/prom/harness off a 90 firebird. I'd like to mock up everything before I drop another $1,000 on a manifold, rails, and throttle body.

 

I ended up with a single plan, sheet metal elbow and 58mm throttle body along with a TC78 1.15 turbo.

I am sticking with dual 2.5" pipes but where they merge to 1 for the T4 flange would I be better keeping a 2.5" outlet or bumping up to a 2.75"-3" pipe at the flange?

I don't want to merge the pipes myself and for $50 I can save a lot of hours and frustration:
http://www.mandrel-bends.com/catalog...mild-1998.html
http://www.mandrel-bends.com/catalog...mild-1765.html

I can do 2.5" inlets to 2.5", 2.75" or 3" outlet. They also sell a rounded opening flange for any of those outlet sizes. Is their a benefit to a parallel (first link) merge as opposed to a splayed merge (second link) other than a splayed will be easier to weld on?

 

Yes make it easy on yourself and buy a merge collector like that. Dont matter if its 2.5 or 3".

http://www.mandrel-bends.com/catalog...-form-665.html

Buy that to adapt the flange perfectly or just hammer the pipe square to make your own. 3" pipe hammered into oval/square fits t4 flange best but can get 2.5 to work just need alittle more fill in the side areas

 

Would that be better than buying a round opening T4 flange for whatever diameter pipe I use? (Example below)
http://www.mandrel-bends.com/catalog...teel-2313.html

 

Never seen that style before, and not sure how much of a difference it would make. All turbine housings go rectangular or oval shape so i figured a transition at that connection would help even out the airstream as it enters the turbine.

I am sure both will work just fine and round would be easier to work with. For street setups for moddest power goals hotsides dont seem to matter. As long as there is heat and gas energy, the turbo will spin. Assuming turbine is sized somewhat correctly. Now some setups will have more backpressure than others but street setups shouldnt worry to much unless you cant seal the header flanges

 

I have single manifolds and crossover for sale if anyone interested, listed on here. forward headers and mounts the turbo between rad and block on pass side. Just puttin it out there. Nice work on your setups guys

 

One more question... I hope this is it for me.

My turbo is a t4 divided style housing, on the hotside flange what is the best design for merging the two pipes.
(Do I use a divided or non divided flange or does it not matter)

I wanted to go with two 2.5" pipes to a single 3" into an open t4 flange as opposed to notching the two 2.5" pipes directly into a divided t4 flange or running two 2.5" pipes to a 3" pipe and using a divided flange? I want to do this right the first time and not take it back apart in the future.

 

If spool was a concern, take each bank of exhaust and run separately into each half of the divided housing. Pulsing would spin it up faster but for simplicity sake run both like you plan, 2.5 merging single 3 and into open flange. A 383 will have no issue spooling a t4 and actually a t4 if not large enough turbine could become a slight restriction. Guys have made over 1000 hp with a proper sized t4 however lol

 

All these turbo set ups look beautiful! Saddens me I can't do.it on.mine

 

Thanks. That was the answer I was kinda looking for lol. I am descent at welding but my fabrication as a whole leaves a lot left on the table.