I've got a 86 iroc with a 5.0 tpi auto and been getting parts gathered up for the rebuild and really wanting to do some power. So I know imports/tuners so automatically thought lets turbocharge it, I'd like to know of everyone that's done this and of any other go fast ideas y'all have thanks a lot.
-Chris

 

Well since you are pulling the motor, the best bang for your buck is a 350/400 swap. I would stay away from turbo/supercharging unless you have several thousand to spend.

 

Depends on what you mean by fast, Chris...

 

Whats the budget you have? What can you do yourself? And like Rob said... what is your goal Hp wise?

 

Put in a 350, add HSR, cam it, port the heads or better yet buy some AFR's and never look back.

 

305 cubic inches of displacement at 15 pounds of boost will now create 610 cubic inches of displacement because your are essentially doubling the amount of air and fuel you would normally take in at 0" of vacuum. I won't even get into the rate of acceleration with a turbo, but trust me, all he will be doing is "looking back" at you in his rear view mirror...

 

You got that right streetlethal.

 

I dislike when people act like turbos are a godsend. There is no replacement for displacement. There are plenty of n/a sbc's out there that are well into single digits. The only real advantage of turbocharging is you maintain stock like driveability(depending upon combo) and fuel economy. Which who cares about the latter of the two. Like stated above state goals/budget to separate you from the rest of the dreamers

 

... and I hate it when members come to the power adder section and argue in favor against them. Does that make sense? No, really, does it lol? As for your driveability and fuel economy argument, it just doesn't hold any water. There are tremendous benefits of running a turbo charger as opposed to just those two things. There is a reason why more and more people are running turbo's my friend, and your no replacement for displacement adage is a thing of the past, plenty of four bangers and six cylinders running deep in the single digits, plenty of them trapping close to and over 200-mph in the 1/4, what more is there? How does displacement benefit over that lol? How? Dyno numbers lol? Keep your framed dynograph up on the wall where it belongs. Paying more at the pump? No thanks, would rather spend it on someone special. Forced induction changed everything my friend, either accept it, or keep trying to convince yourself otherwise. Go ahead, lets hear how there is "no replacement for displacement" on the street, or on the track, and spare me the nitro dragster bullcrap.

 

... this very thing is the essence of forced induction, and power isn't peaky, it is constant the moment boost comes in, which can easily be controlled throughout. Naturally aspirated engines running one camshaft, like 99% of the engines on this board, depending on the cam specs, will always give the owner some kind of compromise somewhere in the RPM band in the end, which of course he or she will swear that that is what they wanted anyway.

 

yea thats what i wanted my engine to just give up at 4300 rpms lmao
lets get into some tech i have been thinkin really hard about a turbo for my fbird and my tow truck but i have never messed with them or honestly learned anything about them and here over the past month tried to do some fact finding on turbos size mounting and such and everyone that has anything to say (thats smart) is like talking in freakanese or something. i know a good bit about cars and engines built a bunch but if we can turn this thread from another argument to a real turbo tech thread i might be able to learn somethin and not feal so stupid for wanting to do something i know nothing about. lmao heres what i know turbo=fast and good on gas with the right setup= street carrrrr

 

Thats all well and good, but the reason ive mentioned an n/a combo, is because the number of people that will actually follow through with a forced induction build is slim.
As far as displacement... call steve morris and many other big names that have over 1000 cubic inch motors and tell them thery're wrong and need to go to 305s because thats what YOU run. Sorry you take everything so personal

I wont add anything further since you have an answer for everything.

 

theres pros and cons to everything plz tech this thread. i need to know who of my fellow thirgenners is turbo savvy so i can sound like an idgit and ask stupid questions and maybe just maybe learn enough to get away from the bottle. otherwise im gonna have to go with a 177 or 142 charger for simplicity (losing my a/c) not cool

 

Well this i a funny thread, you lost the OP, 355sleeper has a point, but I am wondering why your not giving advice towards using turbos as you are running them in your car,
Rebelson101: the best advice I can give you is to read, There are many thread build of turbos on this site Some finished a lot have not, Pick up some books on turbo charging. And if you go to the supercharger 177, 174, 144, or 142 you would not have to loose your A/C you might have to get different brackets for you accessories but it has bean done before.
kyjimo: for anyone to answer you question they need to know you HP goals and your budget, how much fab work can you do? And lastly what you buy for a 305 should work on a 350 later on when you want more power. The more you share with us the more HELP you can get.

 

Thanks for intervening, the reason i would steer him away from the turbos is unless he is a hardcore diy'er and has the knowledge go supercharger. I am well over the 20k mark in my drivetrain and fuel system alone.

As they saying goes... fast, reliable, cheap. You can only pick two.

 

20k
dam sounds like a killer build
mine is gonna be nowhere near thst amount, but i hear ya on the
fast,cheap,reliable.
ive convinced a few folks to stay away from forced induction, especially if working on tight budget. a 6.0 based n/a makes more sense in my book.
i ran a 500rw n/a 6.0 based build with oe heads in.my car for yrs.
i doubt a 500rw 305 would be just as reliable. idk though. i will never know, just alot better options out there.now.
to me a fast street car is 9.5s in the 1/4 on dr, drive to and from track

 

... lol at the direction this thread went in. Fast, cheap reliable, pick two lmao? Some of you guys sadly have no idea what your talking about when it comes to boost, and spending up to and over twenty thousand dollars on a turbo build is the craziest thing I ever heard. Here is my good friend Paul Miller's '86 Grand National running a tiny 231 V6 with factory cast parts, iron heads, stock main bearings, running pump gas, running less than 30-psi, weighing over 3500 pounds. The engine has hundreds of passes, never left him stranded, and never broke down, drives it everyday, and it runs nines. I'm going to laugh my @ss off when some of you members here who are building their high dollar twin turbo SBC/LSX engines, run much much slower than that, and eventually break down. Yup, cubic inches is the key.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/86-buick-grand-national-9s-on-pump-gas_2425180.htm

 

You tell me i know nothing and you say this...

305ci + turbo = 610ci lmao

 

I wasn't against the turbo idea. I have a turbo build in the works. I was offering a solution within the "budget" parameter. Turbo charging IS cheap, just that budget to some is not budget to others.

 

Yea a turbo build can be a budget to some and others not. I feel that you can turbo your car safely for 1500 bucks or 5k... its just up to what you can do and your preference of parts.

 

my original turbo system on my iroc ( twin turbos) set me back 2,200 bucks for everything including the fuel system and aftermarket ecm


if u can weld u can do it just as cheap

the only used parts i bought were the aftermarket ecm ( saved 150 bucks)
and the presicion turbo injectors which i bought from a retialer that used them for mockup so they were brand new ( saved 300 bucks)

 

Come on ppl wake up and smell the coffee. Put away that hot rod mag ,get off the computer and step into the real world.A turbo build is going to cost way more than $5k unless of course your stealing all your parts. Think about it .. If it were that cheap we would see a lot of builds and completions!!

Second ... The saying "there is no replacement for displacement " is as valid today as it was in the past.

Saying a 305ci plus 15 psi of boost is like a 610ci engine. Really?? How great would a 610ci bbc run with 305ci sbc cylinder heads??

 

Well as you can see these guys are just going to argue with each other and not give you any real answers ,
So why don't you tell what you want from your car ? Whats your goals?
What are you capable of doing your self ( welding and porting and such ) ?
What is your budget ?
Do you have TPI, TB, or carb?
There are many different combos you can do and everyone will tell you to do it there way,

 

cheap,reliable,fast.
pick 2 and step into the real world

 

i have all 3

 

How many passes do you have on the setup and street miles?

 

my v6 car has over 100k miles on the turbo setup/engine and countless passes (4-7 passes a week at the track depnding if i took the car every wensday and friday night for over a period of 5 years)
my tt iroc has 1,000 street miles and a ton of high speed runs on the abandoned air strip and other places.
the tt iroc is being put back into dd status this weekend now that the weather has cleared up ( it snowed 2 weeks ago)

the iroc will average about 850 miles a month starting next week

out of the time i had the iroc on the road last year its had numerous runs with boost in the 20 psi range still have yet to smack it with a 75 shot of nitrous


go look on the turbo forums for all the other cars that have sub 3k turbo systems that haul *** and have been together for years

 

I dont doubt it but for someone such as myself that cant tig weld or build a blow through carb, there isnt really a budget side.

Also look at the number of sub par parts that people use. More specifically headers. If you all have the ability to build a turbo setup for nothing then more power to you.

 

fair enough,
im curious as to what is cheap,reliable and fast.
i get all turbonetics products at cost.
ive built quite a few turbo kits in my time out of a fully equipped diesel shop.
i can put a kit sub 3k$ using tnetics turbo,wg,bov, mild steel, hotparts.
still use generic ic from ebay. since they are cheap. cant pass that up.
but again, im quite a bit of $ ahead since tnetics parts are at cost.
minimum 60lb. injectors 300$
rising rate fpr fuel system to handle at least 750bhp or 600rwhp. 500$+
sd tune 500+$ (ls cars)
this is 100% new.
guy could prolly do better or same, with used parts. but with used parts come the reliable part.
the cheaper tc series, still go for bout 800-850$, wg 250$-400, bov 200$+
and just a reminder, tnetics will warranty products for a decent amount of time.
so i factor this.in reliable part.
when the smoke clears, the ebay turbo dealers will not offer any kind of warranty or replacement.
im not doubting you can build something cheap,reliable,fast.
but commonplace building a turbo system gets expensive real quick.
also have to factor in supporting mods.since assume were talking 3/4 gens. but universally common in any car. but a proper setup car to handle the turbo
fuel system
tune
transmission
suspension
rear end (12bolt,s60,etc.)

 

not.many.ppl can.
inexperienced.ppl fall for the cheap turbo.propaganda.
i have nothng against saving money diy and going fast on a diy turbo build.
the physical turbo build part is only the tip of the iceberg. if seriously looking to put down and utilize the power correctly and safely. the turbo output will uncover the other weak links
engine capabilty
drivetrain capabilty
fuel system and management capabilty.
etc.

 

I have the same in my mind. Its reliable, its pretty cheep(price wise), and considering it took 4 seconds off my 1/4 mile time.... its fast. If you can weld, tune the ecm, and have imagination, its not too bad.

 

fast is the perfect example of osmone with no experience building a cheap reliable fast turbo system

it doesnt matter if u have experience or not, what matters is u pay attention and listen to the ppl who have done it already and can steer u in the right direction


theres enough info on these boards and othe rboards that anyone can put together a cheap reliable and fast turbo system if they pay attention and do there research


iirc i dont think fasteddi even knew how to weld before he started, i know for a fact he didnt know how to port the heads and stuff , i also belive he had never opened up and engine and did mods before

 

Ive owned 4 awd dsms the last one was a 35r powered 2.3 stroker with those cars you cant have all 3.
.
fast, your car is quick for what it is and after you get the tune dialed in perfect and crank the boost it will be 12s for sure. But i dont think low 13s is "fast". My bone stock ss will do that.

 

Theres the real problem, the word "fast" has different meaning to different people.

If I can go 12's in an all OEM vehicle- that would be nice. because OEM parts last for 200,000 miles in most cars. and 12's is not shabby, amirite?

But if you want 11's, 10's, now you are pushing above 400 horsepower in something that weighs 3000+ lbs. and at that point, it becomes more about trap speeds than 1/4 mile times. because I can trap 13.5 @ 132mph and have a really 'fast' fun car to drive.

Part2:
Turbochargers should be on every vehicle. I Know that sounds crazy- but what is really crazy IMO is depending on the atmosphere to push air into our engines. I dont care what engine. They could all use a little "help". Boost pressure should be tailored to the internals (compression/materials/clearances/etc...) such that it will last, yeah, 200k miles. My goal is to get 200k miles from something that traps 124~mph in a daily driver that will give a minimum of 25mpg highway- using as much OEM equipment as possible.

Part3:
I know this is a V8 crowd and I love V8s but here it comes. Just for comparison sake, I am not suggesting anybody do this, but- an OEM 2jz-gte engine is 3.0Liters and will handle, with all oem internals, 550bhp for 200,000 miles. In a 3200lb vehicle thats your 124mph trap and 25mpg.

the reason I point that out, is because you have to beat it. You cant put ANYTHING else together if you cant beat that combo- because at the end of the day, you would just be paying more for less. That combo is about $10,000 flat installed into just about any RWD chassis. So If I am going to spend more than 10k, it better go 200k miles, trap at least 122mph, get 25mpg, or its a waste of cash.

 

2 things you need to know and be capable of doing to have a budget turbo setup.

1) fab work, engine assembly skills, and welding. Cant do it yourself, its not gonna be cheap. At very least be able to tack weld stuff together and have someone weld for you but you will have several hundred invested

2). Efi tuning knowledge. By far the cheapest way to make this work is having a tpi thirdgen and rewiring for map sensor if not already equipped and run code $59. Its all diy and you will have to spend time learning it to work it.

Even with this, you will have some money wrapped up in the project. Several hundred in tools alone plus welder. Need chop saw, sawzall, and a cutoff wheel/grinder. Basic mig welder. Need moates tuning equip. Need laptop.

If you cant do 1 and 2, then turbo is not for you, unless you have money to pay someone else to do it. Blower kits arent cheap either but atleast somewhat complete enough to not require major work. Tuning aspect still exists but can be bandaided with fmu.

Start reading turbo books. Visit garrett turbos website for turbo sizing 101,102,103 articles. Thats the place to start

 

fast is relative to the car u start with, fast started with a mid 17 second car and droped 4.5 seconds off its et , with prolly another .5 to come with some more tunning , and prolly even another full second by the time hes done.

so yes thats fast

now if u start with a mid 13 second car and only get 12's out of it no thats not fast


i started with a 15 second iroc car will run low 10's high 9's so thats pretty dang fast

 

im a bigger fan of the gn 3.8 engine more so then the 2jz

2jz's make make hugh numbers but honestly look at the power curve of a high powered 2jz car they dont make squat fo rpower below 4,500 rpms ,and most of there power is within the last 750 rpm before they redline

now the buick 3.8 makes tons of power an tq doesnt have to be reved over 5,500 rpms and is cheap to build to boot.and those guys have the combos so well documented u can pick any et u wanna run, and u can get a list of the exact parts u neeed to run it everyday

 

2jz or whatever might be a great canidate, but dont discount the american iron. TR guys with a stock bottom end LC2 know that the little V6 can lay down those numbers, with way more torque mind you, with ease. And they dont need a fart cannon either

 

so how much all you got in this all 3 tt 9sec iroc?

 

Until you have dyno numbers or time slips everything is up in the air. Converter slip, gearing, traction, launching rpms... etc.

So you cant be sure it will run that. Im not doubting it, but these are hypothetical numbers.

Fast isnt relative to what you started with, if i go 10s with my ss, you arent any faster if you run the same number with ur car just because u started with a slower car.

 

no they arent we have sanctioned 1/4 mile drags at the air strip here, i already know what the car ran last year

 

2,200 in parts
add in another 500 for a mig welder and sawzall and chopsaw and misc other tools i needed

and to top it off i didnt even have a garage to build the car in i did it all in my parking lot at my apt complex

 

This "fast" argument is a ever growing on on turbo builds. To me if you can double the Hp on your car then you doing something exspecially if its reliable and relitvely low in cost.

If you can fabricate the stuff up, weld, and tune the ecm then it would cost a crap load just to get the build together. I spend roughly 2k bucks now on my build. Im happy with it and If I had a V8 I wouldnt see it costing anymore either. The tuning is Key to the build. Its the hardest part to learn and hopefully a newbie gets lucky like me and can lay down many passes at the track while tuning the car and not wound the engine.

Daves right, I never opened up a engine before let alone ever thought I could weld worth a crap, tune the ecm or fabricate anything. It took me about 1 year of reading up on the stuff in my free time then just diving head first into the build with some guidence of ppl that did the same thing on their car.

I think 13 flat is fast for me considering the pre turbo preformance of the car. But you guys are right. 13 flat isnt fast considering more and more sub 11 second street cars are out there. I would be really ticked off it I started out with at 350 V8, turboed it, and didnt crack 11s considering they push mid 14's stock.

I know sometimes i shouldnt come into threads and say its fast because in all reality its not really fast considering the compitition. But when I can go beat stock ls1s with a horrid flowing iron headed V6, I reached the goal that I put together 2 years ago. And I wont stop till I get to the 12's(.03 away) and then the 11's and so on.

 

I couldnt agree with you more but how about fuel system? What are you guys doing for that? Im using a stealth eliminator pump($530) a2000 regulator(350 with fitting kit) and hp innovations built carb(1372). So that would be pretty hard to build a blow through high hp "budget" car. Thats for those of us that want the simplicity of a carb.

 

Carb may be more but I have no idea what a set up of that stature cost. Fuel injection your going to spend 200 bucks on just the cheepest tuning outfit if you already have a laptop. If you would retain the stock ecm and if your lucky(use a 7730). The chip burner($85), aldl cable($60), and chip adapter/chip kit$55) plus shipping. Then 150-200 bucks on some big injectors from southbay and 100 bucks on a walbro or eq. pump. So 450-600 bucks just to cover the tuning and fueling. Personally I spent 450 bucks on the tuning stuff and fuel managment items. But I only have 6 48lbs injectors insted of 8 so injectors only ran me about 140 bucks.

 

I run twin sequential turbos on my daily driver and have about $2k in the setup.

 

a single aremotive 340lph will cover most fuel injected guys and even carb huys pump wise if u shop around u can get these new for 145 bucks

i cheaped out and got three vette zr-1 190 lph pumps for 15 bucks each new

 

I have a lonnies performance twin walbro in tank system on mine for now. Suppose to be good to 1100 hp. Hope to see that, and if not enough fuel i will have to check my other options. Maybe the 340lph pumps could help. Maybe a inline pump?

 

i originally had 2 aremotive 340 pumps which would support way more hp then id ever make on the 355 , my return line got blocked and killed the pumps , thats when i picked up the 3 190lph vette pumps they work great though getting that 3rdpump in the tank is a real pain in the ****

when the 427 goes in the car the areomotives will go in

 

Yeah by the flow rates twin 340's should do everything i'd need but not sure if anyone is using them or if they fit like twin walbros