I'm running 88-92 Camaro serpentine brackets and I'm about to buy a procharger bracket for the serpentine system. I'm going to go with a 8 rib setup for less weight and I'll have 12 psi and lower boost anyways so no need in the 12 rib I think. So, my question is....any fitment issues? What size belt do y'all run? Do y'all run a tensior upgrade or is the procharger stuff good enough. Going to run 5-6 psi non-intercooled on my 383 with AFR heads, MPFI intake and D1SC with dual 3" exhaust to start out with and 7-8 psi once I intercool it. What size pulley should get me close to 5-6 psi?

 

You'll probably need a 4.25" with a 7.62" crank pulley for that boost level, and the 8 rib setup should work for that fine. I get about 14 psi with my current LTR setup with a 3.7" pulley and revving the **** out of her. Also whatever belt length you go with get the gates brand if you can, they seem to not stretch as bad since you will have limited space on applying tension with the tensioner setup.

 

The stock tensioner design is an epic failure. The bracket flexes, as do the long 3/8 bolts that hold the bracket on.

I'm running a procharger simply because:

A) The whole P1SC kit was $1500 locally slightly used (minus intercooler)
B) It actually flows reasonable CFM for the money
C) I like the self contained.

If you have the money, a self contained Vortech is better all around.

Procharger may make a decent compressor, but the rest of the kit is an epic failure. A quick search will find many threads on bracket replacement, tensioner replacement, etc.


-- Joe

 

Great so I need to get a 7.62 crank pulley from Procharger. I may have 10 psi one day but I figured a 3.8 pulley might be enough to do that. But, don't want to push big boost as I'm running 11:1 compression on my 383. I always wanted one and came across a steal of a deal on a D1SC polished with the race valve and extreme velocity hat for under 1500 slightly used. I can get a Gates. My brother ran Goodyear Gater back belts for less belt slippage with his Pontiac GTP and didn't seem to stretch much.

Joe,
Thanks for the heads up. I got a great deal on the head unit so I need to buy the brackets from Procharger. But if you know another brand, then I can buy that instead. I have a renegade bracket from a Mustang coming with the kit but I need to sell that as it's for a ford and doubt it'll work with the Chevy stuff.

 

The stock bracket is a plate of aluminum, some spacers and long 3/8 bolts.

If you do some searching you'll find a template. You could cut the bracket out of aluminum, or better yet steel plate locally and fabricate a better tensioner.


-- Joe

 

Ok, thanks.

What injectors are you running and what code? I'm trying to find some 60s that will work and have all of the values.

 

The Goodyear gator backs I hear work good as well.

Joe is right about the bracket setup, it definitely could use some improvement and is something that you could make yourself if you really wanted to, though that is a lot of extra work. It's a pain sometimes to get everything lined up where your not shredding belts and keeping the bracket from flexing but once you get it figured out it does work.

 

Sounds like it needs some support brackets on the lower end or behind it. Something to look into I reckon.

Thanks guys for the help thus far!

 

Pics and vid(s) or BAN!

 

I'll make sure to send ya a vid if I ever get a GoPro camera on board lol!

 

So, does anyone have injector data for the 60s that everyone runs?

 

If going with procharger bracket atleast go with a springloaded tensioner, there are several post here about it. with a 8 rib there should be many tensioners availible.

For more boost and performnce you need to build something like I did, search Works good as hell and dont flex

 

What size crank pulley comes with the kit from Procharger? Also, what spark plug gap are y'all running with low boost .035 or .030?

 

Ok, something to look forward too then .

 

42lbs ford injectors with Megasquirt.

60s I think are just too big. 42lbs injector support over 650 horsepower at 55psi.

I used to use $58 on a '730/'749 ECM but the Megasquirt is a lot nicer and has some really nice features, plus the tuning software is lightyears ahead of tunerpro.


gta: is there a commonly available spring loaded tensioner for the stock bracket?

-- Joe

 

i would be scared to run non-intercooled on that compression ratio, i believe i'm running the 3.7 pulley 8 rib and make 14psi, that's on 9.5:1 compression, 3 core intercooler, and methanol injection.

 

Yeah, I figured it would be and thats one reason I'm only wanting to run 4-5 psi until I figure out a way to run the intercooler on this custom setup.

 

Ok, sounds like a upgrade for later.

Its a never ending cycle.

 

Ok, few more questions:
1) What size belt are y'all running. I have a 7.65 crank pulley coming and a 4.25 and 4.1 pulley coming to get the boost right.

2) What heat range spark plug would y'all recommend starting with. I'm running AFR heads with 11:1 compression but the dynamic compression is 7.8:1 which is a bit low. I was thinking about a 7.

3) What spark plug gap are y'all running? .032?

 

I am runing autolites, I believe 2 heat ranges colder, I'll look for the part number when I go work on the car again. I believe my gap is set at .040, might even be set at .045, my MSD ignition box and coil seem to be doing their job fine though.

Can't help ya on the pulley size, I never had anything bigger then a 4", should be a few posts here if you do a search.

 

i'm running 1 degree cooler, i think i set my gap to .35

is this in the 90' c1500 in your sig?

 

I'll go with a 2 degrees then which is a BRK7E in NGK I believe. I'll start out at .035 and adjust from there then. What about the belt lenght?

 

Yes. Started out with a stealthram then single plane and now adding a Procharger.

 

nice, i picked up a 90 k1500 sport back in december

 

Yeah, I've owned this truck since I was 16 so, it's been an 12 year project so far....

 

Found some information while searching:
Well, I stumbled on my original paperwork that came with my P1-SC from Procharger. This is for an 8" 8-rib crank pulley setup. I'll list the drive pulley diameter, prochargers part # and the actual length for the belts.

4.25" - DB660I-8 - 66.0"

4.00" - DB653I-8 - 65.25"

3.70" - DB645I-8 - 64.50"

3.40" - DB645I-8 - 64.50"

While I can't explain the same belt lengths on the 3.7 and 3.4 pullies I can only say I'm running a 64.50" belt with my 3.40 pulley and this is also what the parts list I have from Procharger says. Hope this helps.

 

Ok. Update:
- 2 degree plugs installed with .035 gap
- 8AN line with high volume fuel filter installed on the top end...fuel rails were ran in parallel from two -6AN lines
- Alt reclocked to 3rd Gen pictures
- Hot Wire kit installed on my Walbro 255
- Alt. Procharger bracket modified to clear GM Performance Racing Valve Covers
- Procharger bracket installed
- Also got a 65" Gates belt to test fit and go from there

 

Also, I already own and run this fuel pressure regulator:
The Aeromotive A1000-6 Injected Bypass Regulator was developed for high-horsepower fuel injected applications. Compatible with Aeromotive's A1000 Fuel Pump, this regulator is cousin to the widely-used A1000 Injected Bypass Regulator, delivering performance, long life & reliability.


Base pressure adjustable from 30-70 psi
CNC-machined from 6061 T6 billet aluminum
(2) ORB-06 inlet ports and (1) ORB-06 return ports and 1/8" NPT gauge port
Fuel pressure rises on 1:1 ratio when referencing boost
Alcohol compatible

So, I'm assuming if I'm running 44 psi then for every lb of boost, it'll increase my fuel pressure 1 psi....thus helping fuel for boost like a fuel management unit.

With this pressure regulator, should I try to stick with the Super 8D or go ahead and switch over to the Code 59?

 

Found out what plugs I'm using, Autolite Racing AR3923, these are for aluminum heads.

These are the belts I use for the different size pulleys, all procharge 12 rib belts but should be the same for the 8 rib.

4.00" - 65.00"

3.70" - 64.50"

3.40" - 64.00"

I would go with code 59 or at least try it out, its pretty simple to swap out some wires in the computer and add a 2/3 bar map to make it work.

 

$8D has better driveability but $59 is going to work better with boost. I used to run $60, Bruce's old hybrid codebase from $58 and it worked ok. I'm too lazy to dial in VE tables by hand now so I just use Megasquirt, plus it has some nifty features that I find useful.

-- Joe

 

Hey Joe, what do you think is your total cost into the megasqurt? Been thinking of running a new computer for awhile now and looking into my choices, self tuning is a big plus

 

Probably just under $400 including all hardware and the commercial tuning software (tunerstudio).

I build mine a little different that most people because I wanted it to almost plug into a '165 harness with the only change being that I'm using a map sensor where teh MAF was formally. (although, a megasquirt can run both a MAP and MAF sensor at the same time if one wanted to, but I didn't feel like spending money on an LSx MAF).

The megasquirt I'm using (MS2) doesn't have VSS support natively, so if you want MPH based TCC lock and other functions it would be best to use an MS3.

-- Joe

 

So I imaging going with the stock harness saved some money, does the MS3 have sequential injection with a proper harness?

 

Saving money not really, it would be cheaper to just splice the harness with an MS connector, but I wanted to be able to switch ECM's rather quickly if I wanted to compare things.

MS3 is sequential, so if you had a cam and crank sensor you could run cylinder trims and such.

MS3 is kind of expensive (in my opinion) vs MSII. The only thing MS3 really has that MS2 can't do is the sequential, and adding a VSS to MS2 is fairly trivial. All you need is an LM2917 to convert the VSS signal to something the MS2 can read, and than just edit what that input represents. Megasquirt allows you to create switch statements based on sensor inputs, so you could then adjust the behavior that way for TCC, decel, or whatever VSS based thing you wanted.

-- Joe

 

Interesting about the original brackets flexing etc. I say this because, even though I had to some mods to make them fit, Im using all the original serpentine braces, as well as the Procharger one from the bracket to the back of the alternator.
Ive seen a few set ups not using these at all

 

It's a dumb design. Head unit is farthest away form the LONG 3/8" bolts that hold the bracket on, providing tons of leverage to flex the bracket.

-- Joe

 

Just a quick question, what size fuel hose line are y'all running with you setups? I have -8AN from the fuel filter to the engine with the engine ran in parallel with -6AN stuff. From the tank to the fuel filter is stock 3/8 line. The plan is to one day run a aluminum fuel cell custom fitted to the truck with -8AN all the way to the engine but just making sure what I have will work just fine.

 

Going up for answer above?

 

-10 AN flow and return, Aeromotive 13212 regulator, and eliminator pump

 

stock fuel aside from the 2 walbro 255's and 42/lb injectors

 

Alittle late but 7 heat range should work but with your high comp and non intercooled it may need an 8. Only can try it as is and see what it wants. I run 8 intercooled in my turbo car but i plan on pushin much higher boost. 7 should work intercooled and higher boost. Gap is fine, .030-.035 should light off low boost. I ran .028-.030 for 15-18 psi

You probably will want 2 pumps or a big 340 lph. Your 383 on low boost should push the limit on one pump.

-8 feed is plenty but depends on pumps. -6 would be fine with twin pumps as you can overcome restriction with pressure as 2 will provide plenty of volume, but one pump cant deliver volume with lots of pressure. This is where -8 or larger helps. Can get more volume with less pressure since less line restriction

In general single walbro is 500-550 whp. Twins 1000-1100. Depending in line size and fuel pressures ofcourse

Code 59 works well once you set the file up right and get it all tuned. Certain settings to enable/disable that will help v8 run best.

 

Well, I'll get it running with the intercooler first and get the boost level where I want and I'll see if I need another fuel pump. I'll probably go with the 340 lph Aeromotive or A1000 and be done with it once and for all if I have to do that.

Looking at options for the code right now to see if I want to do the 730 to code 59 swap, EBL, or Megasquirt.

Had a few things I had to do, I had to mill the spacers sent in the Procharger kit and make them .60 from .75 so that the belt would ride square with the crank pulley. Then, I had to ground the bracket that attaches to the back of the alt. for clearance at the supercharger was now closer to the drive assembly. Now, I got to refine the intake and get a box built for cold air and install my 63 lb/hr injectors. After all of that, then I'll get the intercooler installed. Got a Procharger 3 core on the way but don't have a lot of room to get a intercooler in to flowing air so I'll have my work cut out for that.

 

I went with a big ebay intercooler. A little cutting and grinding, it fits nice.

I've got the nose off right now as I'm painting. Will try and get a picture.

-- Joe

 

I should have the EBL-P4 in my possession this week, then installed hopefully this weekend or sometime into next week. Gonna make a video of the install, as well as the base tuning. Megasquirt is an incredible system too, I ran it for awhile. I have seen the SFI-6 in action too which is also made by Dynamic-EFI, which is synonymous with the EBL-P4 save for a few features, and it is unbelievable. Rauscher did an incredible job with it, and guys on the Turbo Buick boards are switching from XFI to SFI-6, in which for those in the EFI know, is saying a freaking lot...

 

Really?

Too bad Rbob doesn't develop his own ECM. Between the fact that you have to use a bin editor and it's not realtime tuning, the lack of automatic features, and that you're installing a module in a 25+ year old ECM turned me off.

What exactly does it do better than the XFI that folks would be willing to use tunerpro and give up some more modern functionality?

-- Joe

 

It really depends on what you mean by modern functionality to make a fair comparison. SFI-6 costs a third of the price of an XFI, which that right there is a tremendous issue with the Turbo Buick guys. Ninety percent of the Grand National owners are still running Turbo Tweak chips, and they cannot afford an XFI, so what Rauscher offers is quite the package. It essentially hooks to the stock harness, has alky, wastegate and lockup control, upgraded features added, firmware author available everyday for tech support, well here, this is what Bob says about his controller when addressing the Turbo Buick crowd...;

Esc: How is spark control integrated into the system?

The ESC system can use the stock knock sensor (100K) and filter (external). It can also use a different sensor (3.9K) while using an internal knock filter. Since the knock filters are finely tuned, and these are boosted engines, until further testing is done using the stock sensor/filter is best.

MSD points wire output? Anyway to use a msd box with a distributor?

The EST interface is the same as the '7148 ECM. So it is plug & play with the stock CCCI set up. Which allows it to also run with the newer Buick quick start set up. It will also work with a stock 3.8l CCC Buick distributor, IF, a cam sensor is also added.

Are there any injector size limitations?

254 #/hr is the upper limit (each injector, about 2200 HP total w/gasoline).

Individual Cylinder Fueling. Also does your system handle individual sequential cylinder fueling?

Individual injector fuel trims, separate in idle and off idle tables, +- 12.5%.

Can you explain the lean cruise feature in more detail? Can we adjust our own lean cruise A/f and timing offset?

Yes to both, AFR vs load, and added SA vs load. There are also timers to switch in & out of lean cruise mode, along with MPH, load, and CTS thresholds. Switching in & out is important as the engine takes time to stabilize.

Low impedance injectors?

To use low impedance injectors will need the same type of mod that is done with the '7148 ECM...

Data logging how many sensors, how many frames a sec?

All of the EFI ECM sensors are logged, along with many other parameters. The data is sent 17 times a second. There are also eight 10-bit ADC channels that are data logged. These inputs can be used for any linear output device with a 0-5 volt output.

The system is provided with a USB interface.

Self learning ve tables?

Yes, function is built into the What's Up Display (WUD).

Flash on the fly ability?

Can not flash on the fly. It takes about 3.5 seconds to update the calibration.

Also, can we adjust timing vs boost/rpm?

Yes, it is a timing reduction table versus boost & RPM. There is also timing reduction versus 3rd and 4th gear for automatics. And timing reduction versus MPH. PE added timing versus gear for stick transmissions. PE timing added for automatics. Can use any mix of the above, or only one...

Is there even a 148 install anywhere. Has it even been attempted?

The '7148 doesn't have much room inside as it is two full size boards. It is also limited in I/O, which the EBL SFI-6 ECM has a lot more of. This allows the addition of features that work in conjunction with the fueling and SA side of things.

The SFI-6 ECM also supports high frequency MAFs. This area is still a little up in the air. We have decided that a MAP sensor is mandatory. Once our test vehicle is back on the road we will be testing the use of a MAF along with the speed density system.

Not sure where that will lead.

The ECM firmware is field upgradable, so features can be added/changed for the better at a later time. Our EBL Flash product has had one such upgrade...

 

I'll admit, I have not researched the price of XFI. I'm just comparing it to Megasquirt, which the SFI-6 is a bit more expensive and still relies on a slow 8 bit ECM from the 80s.

Interesting that he's testing with the hybrid MAP/MAF stuff that the MS guys have been doing. I've considered adding an LSx MAF to my MS to see if I can get some resolution where a 2bar MAP falls short.

The autotune in WUD will generate you a VE table, which you can pull over and import. MS will adjust and correct while driving, will adjust and correct AE, and will adjust and correct WOT.

Biggest benefit, MS is a true AFR based system, so your "closed loop" can have different commanded AFR's throughout your AFR tables, and will build the appropriate VE tables.


-- Joe

 

Code $59 has a closed loop wideband air fuel table too but i never touched it. I just ran open loop. Lots of nice features but lack of timing table resolution for higher than 4800 rpm is what turned me away. I ran well with it for few years after figuring out the little issues. Once setup right its a nice budget system and even tho old tech and slow ecm, it still more than enough to control a 800+ hp build

 

What are you running now?

-- Joe

 

In process of ls1 411 ecm 24x conversion with coil packs lol. Efi connection kit but making my own harness. Been waiting forever for my heads to come back to finish motor assembly, get it in car and layout the wiring to finalize it, wrap it up and test for connections to make sure i did it right and nothing blows up lol