http://www.siliconeintakes.com/produ...c199a33ec3e23d

 

Well that's pretty cool, found one on eBay now thats a little cheaper but only does fahrenheit. Also one that does boost too!

Intercooler
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.ca/viewit...d=170950896353

Boost PSI
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.ca/viewit...d=171021640889

Going to order both

 

---CHINA!!!---

 

Usually 5-6k drop

 

This thread got me interested in my IAT's, so i did a few pulls with a scanner hooked up. I have the IAT sensor between the throttle body and intercooler outlet. Its an LT1 style (open element) sensor. It was 64 degrees outsidde when i did the testing. During cruise is would sit at 64-65 degrees. I made a 1st, 2nd, 3rd gear pull at 14 psi and temps rose to 71-72 degrees and dropped right back to 64-65 as soon as i let off. Im very happy with the Toyota Supra intercooler from Greddy. Its made by trust and the kit for a supra cost over $1500, but it supports 1000+whp supras.

 

Wow that's pretty impressive for cooling on a firebird, gives me hope! I found your article on the car http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...fications.html even have the mag as well haha! But I'm only seeing one pic of it, do you have more angle shots?. Looked online and found some pictures of the intercooler to http://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc40...-row-fmic.html That thing is huge lol!

 

i will try and remember to take some pics tomorrow.

 

how is the airflow over your FMIC?

one idea on youre scoop is to make it shorter but wider so it looks like this: \____/ get air to and through it and evacuated from behind it. that might be part of your problem. sure a bigger intercooler will take longer to get heat soaked. however, if you dont improve airflow over/through that region, you wont really improve cooling.

another thing to try is to angle the back side of your IC down a smidge into the airflow instead of forcing the air to make that turn.

 

I like to use a camera with some ribbons/string on the back side of the intercooler and see what's going on with the flow, might shed some light on that part. I can't really tilt the intercooler back much anymore, the ground effects are in the way unless I do some chopping. You do have a good point about the heat soak, it seemed after the 3rd gear pull the intercooler just gave up.

Think you have a good idea about reshaping the scoop wide like that too, it's something I'll look into for sure.

Hopefully once I get my car put back together in the next day or two I'll have some more data for everyone. I have all the gauges and extra sensor now ready to be put on for testing.

 

Dual nozzle meth/water much easier than refabricating. It's the sliced bread of the forced induction world.

 

 

id be willing to be the air passing through the IC is just getting hung up above the IC with no way out. eg: no flow. extract that air and your temps will most likely drop.

 

The only place for that air to go out is through the rad, it all gets deflected out that way.

 

Ok guys I finally got everything hooked up for testing and the car put back together, my results are this.

PSI Pre VS PSI After the Intercooler
14.5 = 10.6

IAT Pre Vs IAT After the Intercooler Deg F*
354 = 212

My after intercooler results were between 180-212 depending on how long you step on it, pre intercooler temps would jump up to 345-354 at max boost.

So there you have it, think there is some real gains in changing the intercooler on this car. Was really surprised how much of a drop in psi there was on this intercooler, thought it would have been better.

Video of a run to 6400 RPM


Pic of the intake temp, look at Coolant and MAP temps for both sensor data

 

Thats pretty hot air going in, but yes, thats a good bit of pressure drop across the cooler. I think you will have good gains with a cold air intake on the blower instead of taking hot air off the headers. That would be helpful if possible and should see further reduction.

A new intercooler will help some more with less pressure drop but you are getting a decent amount of temp reduction as is. Combination of pressure drop and cold air into the blower should really change things around.

 

Making a cold air pipe won't be easy though the idea was going through my head. Think a new hood and to draw the air from the cowl area would be the best idea. Seen a few guys do that on here in the past.

The pressure drop is what I'm really looking that, that's close to 4 psi if my gauge is reading right.

Been thinking of this intercooler too now, I like the cross flow design and if I mount it like TurboedTPI it might work out nice.

http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...rcooler++860HP

 

ddont forget to improve airflow over the cooler

 

i realize that. you suppose you could actually lower the temp threshold of the fan switch to draw more air through? that along with teh suggested scoop mods may help with this ic and the new ic

 

I got to doing some intake temps pre supercharger today. I forgot I had a extra sensor lying around with grommet from TPIS so I stuck that in there between the air filter and procharger. Temps were around 155-175* depending on how hard you were running it. On a 1 to 3 gear rip, temps would drop 0-10 degrees, but right after you let off it would jump to 190 or so.

I also received my dual temp and psi gauges today, they are pretty nice and seem acurate from my test on the work bench. Just got to figure out where to put them, thinking by the radio pod for now.

 

I did another round of testing of temps pre supercharger without the bypass valve hooked up to recirculate back into the supercharger. Once the car was warmed up it would sit at 166* with the coolent temps at 200* on a 80* day. I then did a 1/4 mile run through 4 gears and I found the temperature would rise up to 179* in the middle of third (85mph) then start dropping down to 160* in 4th (110mph). Soon as I took it out of gear at the end of the run it jumped up to 191* and started to drop back to 166* in about 10 seconds of coasting.

So overall I believe venting the bypass valve air to atmosphere helps a little for intake temps in cruising and after you let off the throttle it seems to drop a little faster.

Next step is to find a way to bring in cold air into the blower and see how that all plays out. I also have my eye on a new intercooler from treadstone TR1245, it will be similar to what TurboedTPI has. Hopefully in a few weeks I'll be able to test that out too.

 

wheres your bypass?

 

It's at the bottom of the drivers side at the front end.

 

before or after intercooler?

 

Oh sorry before.

I think I found a way to run cold air from the bottom of the car to the supercharger now. Going to need a 3.75" 135 degree elbow and pipe that will need to get ovaled out some.

 

Very nice results. I tried to mount my Procharger 3 core unit on my truck...couldn't get it to fit the way I wanted it without having a bunch of 90* so I'm also looking at the Treadstone TV1245 unit.

 

the 94 camaro kits from Procharger have that piece your looking for it runs the filter down below and it's made of all plastic I don't have a pic of it

 

it's like this but longer

 

Ohhhhh that's pretty hmmm... Thanks for the idea I'm going to look into that! You know even that short one wouldn't be to bad, then I could extend it and make the appropriate bends. What is that one off of?

 

in his reply just says his old setup but i'm guessing it's from the 94 Camaro kit and I'm not sure how much CFM you'll be pulling thru that since it is a smaller diameter pipe

 

I found this one on a ls1 forum, seems to be the one that the LS1 guys are going to cause its bigger then theirs. All they say is its a truck inlet so I'm guessing from a Chevy LS kit?

Edit: Oh found a link to the part http://shop.brutespeed.com/ATI-AIGI3...AIGI3I-015.htm

Think it kind of has the right bends and is the one they upgrade to for the bigger size. I would probably have to slap in a jeep steering shaft to make this work though and maybe heat it up and bend it in shape some.

 

I bought a cheap ebay IC and mounted it "front mount" and have all the things setup for compare with the old Procharger 3core IC (mounted horiz) unfort I have not had time to do any testing yet... Building a bigger garage so I hope thats a good reason for not having the time right now?

I also have a extra front and will try fix so that more air entering the IC in a nice way....see here https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/sign...gta-front.html

Hoopefully I will have more time to finish and test all things next year


I made a al.plate to keeping hot air from the headers away from the from the airfilter but have no data yet........

anyhow will follow this thread!

 

I seen that shield of yours on the headers, I was thinking of doing something similar or even wrapping the headers like another guy did. Its got to be worth something you would think.

I can't wait to see your front end mod once its done, I might need to do the same lol. I'm picking up the treadstone 1245 intercooler, so this one will get mounted vertical like TurboedTPI's. I'll have a full set of tests on this too, should be here next week.

 

Awesome....need some data before I order one.

 

I really dont like the 90 deg entrance into the compressor wheel. But, theres not much else you can do. try it and see if it helps. If it doesnt, its probably because of the flow path being 90 deg

 

Damn I just got email saying it's back ordered and be a few weeks

From what I've researched that one ain't to bad but I might jimmy something up just to test the heat difference, I'm more curious then anything.

 

The straighter the better. Bends = air flow resistance.

 

Some data for you... I have the big 1300 hp treadstone.

Last year I recall seeing 12-13 psi, using fast acting open element IAT, i was seeing 25 deg rise on intake temps

Today we tested my car on the dyno, it was 55-60 deg today ambient. I was on 16-17 psi. We saw 35-40 deg rise in temps! Not good. Thats only 770whp but through the big automatic and converter... Big fan in front blowing cool air.

that aint no 1300 hp but still a good intercooler for most street builds. So other treadstone ratings may or may not be accurate as well.

When in doubt go biggest as possible

 

Here are a couple things to ponder, first as stated any type of tubing with bends will be a restriction to your blower if it is on the inlet side. I dont know if you are running an air cleaner on your procharger but they are power robbing and can colllapse under throttle. You would be a lot better off buying a bellmouth from procharger with a screen and running that,even if you need a small piece of tubing to attach it to so you clear the strut tower it will be worth probably close to 40 hp. A pre compressor W/ meth nozzle will help one to lower IATs in the volute but also seal the impeller end clearances effectively making the supercharger more efficient. AIS sells some nice kits for this. Lastly fresh air into the engine compartment. My car with my supercharger moves so much air that the boost actually flat lines because i have sucked all the air out from under the hood and it can not be replenished as fast as it is being drawn out . These are all cheap things to try and will likely net you more gains than changing your intercooler. Actually I would put in a few more w/m nozzles after the intercooler for some added gains but if you are opposed to it then so be it . Wrapping the headers would help but that can be a pain. Good luck with the project!!

 

Just a FYI, you can sand/grind the brass nipple section on our MAT sensors to expose the element and make it more like a open style IAT.
I have never logged it to see if it changes to a faster acting sensor tho. I would bet it would help if anything.

And these guys are correct, air temps are better colder!
I built a mustang for a guy without a intercooler, (old vortec kit) dynoed it and it made decent power but I knew there was more. Installed a alky kit and we gained 95 plus RWHP. Now granted this car was non intercooled but you get the idea.

 

I didn't read every post here but why not Meth injection??? you can actually mount in before the impeller..i see guys doing that on turbo and supercharged cars..or mount it in the intercooler pipe before the TB...I have a snow performance stage 2 kit on my turbo mustang plus an intercoller runs great...can get more aggressive with timing too...just thinking out loud...lol

 

Those are some CRAZY high Intake air temps.

Getting some outside air to enter the supercharger is going to be critical.

The firebirds don't have a very good front end for air flow... That makes it tough for sure.

You've done a lot of good research to get to this point... Hope you find a solution.
~Scott.