I posted a while back about a build for my project formula. I bought a 350 formy because while I prefer a manual tranny, I wanted the 350 so I could do a 383 stroker. I have been making plans to do a forged 385 with a 7k redline N/A motor and try to reach the 500hp crank mark or better...and then learned I should be looking for a 4 bolt main block because its cheaper than have splayed caps put in (sigh).

But the more time I spend on here, the more my ideas end up with muddied waters. I keep reading the threads about boosting - both SC & turbo - and while I don't have any welding/fab skills, installing a home made turbo (DP, exhaust) is certainly something I would consider trying. And more power out of a 385 would be even better in my quest to build a GT500 killer (a la GMHTP article). Not to mention it seems easier to build more power with the boost instead of trying to stick to n/a.

Over the last week, I stumbled into the v6 & Buick swaps happening to a handful of members FBs & Maro's. Now my interest is really piqued when it comes to something strange/different like a boosted v6 in a typical muscle car. I know its been done before from factories and enthusiast alike, but seeing the build threads and the trial and errors and eventual success helps build confidence that these attempts are not in vain. I am impressed with those doing the 2.8/3.1/3.4/etc, n/a and boosted motors. That's a real lesson in patience along with trial an error. But what really hit me were a couple of members basically putting the TTA motor (231) into their Camaro's. To see those "Buick 6" valve covers and the turbo sitting under the hood of a Camaro is slick to say the least.

I'm not too concerned with originality of the car but I was thinking of keeping the car generation-ally correct and sticking with the SBC over an LSx swap. Now the idea of a boosted 231 sitting under the hood is really getting the wheels turning. And while I plan on jumping in on the thread of some of these guys to learn more about the "TTA" swap, I wanted to see if I could get some feedback from the "boosted community" in general about such an idea.

Everyone has their opinions but those with experience fabbing a turbo onto a v8 may say go for the v6 for engine bay room, or uniqueness or some other thought. I know - its my car - do what I want - but its always nice to see where people stand on it.

Two caveats I need to throw in there - A/C and Cruise Control must stay.

OK, I'm jumping back into Sail's thread about his T76 w/ AC and neilB's turbo swap. Any other build threads I should be looking at besides the obvious? (Orrs is next, and I already did the turbo basic stickies...and yes I have been lurking on turboforums as well...)

 

The real advantage the 6er gets you is space. That extra few inches in front of the engine is awesome in tight engine bays. The 8 of course gives you cubes, which are also valuable. If you use your stock accessory brackets the 8 also gives you ease of accessory installation although possibly at the expense of making the turbo kit more challenging to install.

The TTA swap is in its own right an interesting swap. The mounts, headers etc. are out there (note I didn't say cheap) to do this. The heads are from a FWD 3.8L from about 84-87 or so. I still see em at the yards now and again but most have probably been crushed. Hell I may still have a set somewhere down south. That being said the pistons are a custom item on them if you use standard Grand National slugs you're going to be at about 9:1 instead of 8:1. Depending on who you talk to this will be a good or bad thing (higher static compression limits your overall boost level but spools quicker in general.) The reason I bring this up is the big reason that the FWD heads were used is that they allowed keeping of air conditioning. I believe the compressor hits the inner wheel well with the stock Grand National heads but don't quote me on that.

 

Stay v8, dont waste time with a 6 swap. Same amount of work with less power in the end. Check out bbsdesigns. Can do tpi style turbo system with ac.

 

I stumbled upon BBS's turbo headers during my frantic turbo research for my tpi build. Between combing past posts and searches I found Sail's build which is sick and sad cause the ZZ3 is dead for now. Both options are very cool. I like BBS' header design but I was actually thinking about putting the turbo where the charcoal can is. Since the car is getting QQ plates (25y.o./historic in NJ - no emissions) I can basically rip everything out - charcoal can, air, cat, etc. and make some room under hood. So fabbing my own tubes, while challenging, helps me put things where I want.

I basically came up with a parts list for the 385 and to move over to the 3.8 would force me to start over. Not only that, but I don't have familiarity with the 231 like I do with the SBC and specifically TPI so I would have to completely educate myself over at turbobuicks, gnttype.com etc. Plus I had the fortune of having a mom whose cousins are a bunch of racers so I am being gifted a 4 bolt main as of today.

I still like the 3.8 and I may still seriously consider it before diving in to the SBC build. Its different for sure, little bit more of a challenge, but a great talking point at the shows and track for sure.

 

What are you wanting to accomplish with your build? A 1/4 mile car or a daily driver. If your aiming for a 10 second car then go V8 if your budgeting this. If you going to stay above the 11.49 so you dont have to cage it then your options are still open because it wouldnt cost much to put a V6 either a Gm 60* one or a Buick 231 in there and be a 12 flat car. Just my 2 cents. If you take a overall poll on this forum the V8 will win every time and why shouldnt it. You start out with more displacement so your Hp/Tq level (for the most part) is going to be higher in its N/A form so you have a notch already over a V6. But this doesnt mean that a turbo V8 is going to kill a properly built turbo V6.

As of 2 years ago I never attempted to mod my car at all. I didnt have any experience in building a engine at all when I first started. The only experience I have now is the last 2 years of playing with it with help of others on this forum. I have a 3.1L that is a 12.90-13.00 car at the track on 12.5psi of boost. I did all the fabrication and tuning myself. Not to take anything away from myself but its no to difficult for someone to make a somewhat fast turboed V6 or a really fast V8. I just choose a V6 because thats what was in the car and didnt want to go though all the effort of swaping a V8, then turboing it and blowing it sky high before I got a grasp on the engine set up and how to tweak it just right.

 

Ultimate goal - magazine. Otherwise, its a weekend car. Bragging rights at shows, street, and occasional EMRA. I'm not caging the car cause I'm a big guy and already have a hard time getting in and out of my LS1. EMRA wont let me run my vert w/o a roll bar and there's no way I'm modifying that car to put one in. So I am pretty sure after the first pass on the 1320, with the 3rd gen and no cage, I'll get thrown off the track - and that's fine unless I can weld in a cage tucked in behind the interior panels.

I like the unique-ness of the 6. It intrigues me what you and Dave did to your cars (I read your sticky on turbo guide), but the bigger power is gonna come from the 8 and I'm well aware of it. And then NeilB's build was sick and it got my wheels turning. While I am not new to modding my cars some of the fab work you guys do is pretty good considering you are, or were, amateurs. The lack of access to a lift and larger garage is also a bit of a struggle.

You only learn by doing so I guess I need to pick up a welder and experiment some. I'll have to think about it a little bit more. I went hunting for flexible AC lines thinking I could move the ac compressor to where its located on the TTA and keep everything else in place but I didn't see what I was looking for. Maybe the chore of modifying the AC and sourcing the Buick stuff piece by piece might turn me off and keep me on the 385 path with boost.

I'll keeping reading the board, sourcing parts, and see what kind of $ I would need for the swap to a 6 and consider my options. The input is definitely appreciated.

 

If you are worried about cages then i dont think you will have to worry if you went v6. If you were able to find a good 3.8 buick its still an involved swap and harness mod. They will go 11's but you'd have to somehow find a way to adapt buick cruise and ac to thirdgen setup. Much easier if you stuck with thirdgen v8 stuff and fuel injection

 

v8 will do it easier but it better be something special if ur trying to get magazine type attention as they have been done to death

an iron headed 3.1/3.4 is well capable of running into the 11's ,,10's if u really plan out the turbo system and driveline
a hybrid 3.4 ( aluminum fwd heads ) can run 10's but still needs considerable thought in the driveline

when i was going to car shows with my v6 car it got way more attention them the majority of the cars on the show field, its not something u see everyday

a boosted v6 is not for everyone though

 

Yea a sixer isnt for all. Although my car has only seen track time(track ppl/gearheads), its something that alot of ppl will look at just because of what it is. Its a pretty cool thing when a old school carbed V8 guy comes to ask me about my car. Ive had my share of people that just look, mabey shake their head and walk away but that happends when you have something different and they have never seen it actually run the track.

Its just up for you to decide and go from there. If its a 6 then go for it. It may be more indepth then a V8 because less people have tired it and documented it but it doesnt mean that its not something that cant be accomplished. They are more then capible of going 10's with a 3500L lx9 as mars did. But if you go V8 its a great thing to. Im not bias, as long as its boosted, i think is a pretty awsome thing to look at and learn about.

 

Check out TurboTPI threads. Its a very mild L98 with 113 heads and a turbo. He makes great #'s on the Dyno and at the track. His car also a Formula. Thats would be a nice setup with youre parts list also. And give you room to go more wild on the rest of the car. Im thinking tubular K member, A arms, coil overs etc.. A real road race machine that will destroy GT500's. And still appear to be a period correct build, like you mentioned in youre OP.

 

I was in the same boat you are in. I had researched the LS swap to the Nth degree. I had already started to purchase parts for the build. Then I went to Car Craft Summer Nationals here in Minnesota and I completely ditched that idea. I am now going with a 3800 series II turbo swap. These engines and transmissions can be had for extremely cheap. The wiring is going to be a pain, but not impossible with the right help. The mounts are pretty easy and if you find a drop out from a Camaro/Formula you won't need to change anything else. It all fits. I am looking at having between $1500-2000 into my swap and it should get me into the 400hp range. I am still researching turbos and the correct one for what I am looking for out of my car. Now my figure is lower since I have friends that can do any and all of this type of work, so I won't have to buy off the shelf stuff. I will be able to fab up just about anything I need.

 

How is this even a question? V8 every damned day. V6's are like lesbians having sex. There's a lot of whining, moaning, and unnecessary noise but nothing ever really gets accomplished.

 

Still haven't decided but I am leaning toward the 383. I am up for the challenge of the six and the uniqueness still weighs on me.

I got in touch with a distant cousin who's a big time 1/4 guy in Jersey and said i can throw a bowtie block together with 10lbs of boost (turbo or SC) and come up with 700HP+. Which is great, except now I have to up my expenses on a trans & rear.

Once I've decided I plan to start a build thread and that's where my final decision will be implemented. I do appreciate the input from everyone (even the lesbian visuals) so thanks for that.

 

Yes, the old adage of "there is no replacement for displacement" is accurate. However, only when all things equal N/A to N/A, FI to FI. Now throw a supercharger/turbo on a V6 vs. a N/A V8, then I would take the Turbo. You will get just as much power, if not more and still yank down good mileage.

The way I look at it, all things are relative. I have stock 185RWHP in my Camaro as it sits. Once my swap is done I am looking at a minimum of 350RWHP. To double my HP with a $1500-2000 investment and have potential to grow for not much more, is a no brainer.

 

Im assuming you've never seen modded GNs at the race track before? Mind you its a streetable V6 that gets driven arround.

Heres one at the track ive grew up at.

 

That's the only concern I have about going 6. How street-able is a 3.8 that runs >11's.

Love the thought of the boosted 6, hate the idea of a harness/ecm source & swap. Getting A/C & Cruise to work with 3.8 should be easy considering the TTA's existence. Learning the intricacies of the 231 and proper tuning, (not to mention the scary thought of blowing up a new motor) is somewhat intimidating considering my history is SBC & LS1.

So the 231 is new, boosting is new. The n/a 383 is the simple road. Boosting the SBC is more complicated but I just swap parts and tune - all the electronics exist.

Still researching! Keep the opinions and info coming and I'll keep growing my knowledge.

 

My 3.1L Turbo V6 is pretty darn streetable. Its not a 10 sec car though by any means so its not in the same ballpark as a 10 sec car. It is a high 12 second car on 12.5psi of boost but Ive dumped very little into the build as a whole. I know if I had a larger exspence pocket to make it faster that it would still be retained as very streetable. Mars has a 3900 Camaro V6 that runs 10s currently. If remember right, when he had the turbo 3500 lx9 in a cavy it went 11s and was his daily driver for quite some time. I personally think its easier from experience to have a streetable turbo car weather its a 6 or 8 comared to a all out high compression engine. This may be true because most retain the efi on boosted applications and tune it themselfs or have a good shop do it. Efi is easier IMO to make streetable exspecially with all the tools there is out there to do it right.

 

Start with one of these on a tubular K-member. http://www.taperformance.com/proddet...?prod=TA_V3800

Than junkyard 3800 series heads, have them mega worked. And the right size snail. And youre on youre way..
Or if funds allow matching heads. http://www.taperformance.com/products.asp?cat=141