project89

iTrader: (1)

if they are curved away from the head in the center do this

get another cyl head or steel blate u can drill the bolt pattern into

put in the end bolts with a stack of wachers about 1/4 inch high under the header flanges so the ends dont touch the head/ steel plate , then start the middle bolts and tighten them as much as u can without breaking them, then heat the header with a torch and tighten them down some more then let it cool and sit for a few hours.( heat the primarys not the header flange)

after that unbolt them and see if the curve is gone , if not repeat the process untill its gone or close to flat


the other option is to cut the flanges on both sides of the center ex ports , but be ware the front and rear primarys may move around when u cut them , but after u get them bolted up and heat cycled a few times they will stay put

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like they were welded improperly? What surface were they bolted to during welding?

The SSAC headers I have seen have this problem also. So warped that you can't just surface them. You can use a press and fixture to straighten them and then machine.

Trying to get away with a high dollar gasket to fix the problem is a crutch and you will be buying and installing gaskets often. Best bet is to use a press to fix and then surface. Much cheaper and easier in the long run. With that much time and money into a set of manifolds then you might as well finish the job and do it right. Just a opinion, choice is yours.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

hard to avoid warping when welding like that, even when bolted to a fixture. i would bolt them to something with washers like project89 said and straighten them up. then take them to a machine shop and have them surfaced to make them perfect. i believe that is how most headers are done.

vortec350s10

Yep that's what I had to do to one of my headers as well. Borrowed a junk sbc head and did the same thing with washers and a propane weed burner. I then welded a bead around the ports and then sanded them flat with a bench sander. So you end up with raised lips around the ports which aids in sealing, much like a lot of manufactured headers have.

ZZ3Astro

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quadgoat

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to hear your gaskets didn't make it. I have only ever ordered directly from the Remflex website or by calling them direct. I had a good experience both times. I can't say how Amazon deals with their products though. I'm sick of my project too. Popped a head gasket this summer at the track. Tore it down, put in MLS head gaskets and head studs and have had coolant leaking from the head studs ever since. I've slowly been working on re sealing the studs trying a different sealant but the motivation to re do what I JUST did is pretty lacking plus the weather is getting pretty cold up here in Maine. Just gotta keep on keeping on I guess and we'll get there eventually. Keep up the good work!!

-Paul

tjtaylor

Awe man! I was wondering why I haven't seen any updates in your thread in a while Paul! That really blows about the studs. What do you think made the gasket blow? Too much boost or something else. I'm pretty sure I am in mid process of breaking the t5 that's in the car now. I'm getting horrible vibrations in only first gear and pinion noise in the other gears. Do you store yours for the winter? I'm not sure if you use salt in Maine, we do here in ohio :/

quadgoat

iTrader: (1)

I don't want to hijack so I'll try to be brief. Head gasket went due to 20psi + standard 1003 FelPro head gasket + head bolts, not studs. I did beat an LS1 on a 100 shot of nitrous on that run though lol. Think it was my highest trap speed so far too..around 95 mph in the 1/8 mile. I do "store" my car in the winter, roads get nasty here too! She's just in my garage though so if the roads clear up and I need to scratch the itch I can take her out for a beating! Finished resealing the head studs tonight with Permatex #2 instead of the junk ARP Teflon sealant. It's cold now though so I'm going to let it sit a while before I put coolant in it and pressure test it.


-Paul

83Berlinettanoo

Sorry to be off topic but im new. Where do I post questions about my berlinetta if I need basic answers. I dont really know anything about my car. Im switching from hondas lol

ZZ3Astro

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junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Maybe time to invest in a bridgeport end mill. You do nice work and I think you would catch on quick operating it. With it, you could slot the holes for the head bolts and surface mill the flange after straightening it.

The headers look great. I think it will be much closer to the numbers you want. If you swap out that TPI later it will exceed your goal.

ZZ3Astro

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zz17iroc

iTrader: (4)

Looking good man!!

ZZ3Astro

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quadgoat

iTrader: (1)

Glad you're getting to beat on her again!! So, did the Remflex gaskets seal up all right for you?

I'm interested in your coolant temp observation. I am always looking for ways to get my car running cooler. Although, with the Firebird my main problem is getting air TO the radiator lol! If you're getting the hot exhaust out of the engine/engine bay more efficiently it makes sense that it would help keep coolant temps down too.

-Paul

ZZ3Astro

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ZZ3Astro

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project89

iTrader: (1)

why are u running it so rich?
run that thing at like 12.0-12.5 and i bet u it picks up a bunch of power

i run all my turbo stuff at 12.5 afr

if u do lean it out it might be wise to back the timing off 1-2* first and then once u get it in the low 12 afrs go back and readjust the timing.

how much total timing r u running under boost anyway

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vortec350s10

For what it's worth (maybe nothing) mine at 10psi with anything more than 24 degrees timing and it starts detonating if the AFR's get leaner than around 11.9. I'm lucky to have quiet exhaust or I wouldn't have a clue it was detonating. I'm running 9.1:1 compression with iron vortec heads.

12.5 AFR under boost? Dang, you are gutsy. That's a mixture range I try to avoid at all costs under WOT. It's crazy how much timing helps make power under boost. With my setup a little more timing and richer AFR to keep detonation away is faster than less timing and a little leaner.

ZZ3Astro

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project89

iTrader: (1)

i dont recall have u maxed out the latency setting in the ms ecu yet to try to correct the timing error ?

u know u may just have to take it to the track and see what it runs, sometimes the ole buttdyno isnt as accurate as we like to think it is

when i first put the v6 together in my car the buttdyno said it was a mid 13 second car , took it to the track and it ran mid 12's

Drac0nic

With project on this one. Track it, and also see what the timing does. Even though you have a T&T spot I could believe the power to be more subtle than you think especially trying to judge a car you haven't driven in some time.. I'd be totally shocked if you were running optimal timing going from the restrictive log to the free flowing header especially if the engine's holding a lower temperature now. If you dropped 20 degrees after a pass temperature wise then you were definitely being held back somewhere.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Bingo. Steve, if your exhaust backpressure wasn't that bad with the old header setup, and if your essentially burning the same amount of fuel with the new setup, you cannot expect that much of an improvement, if any at all. You can play with the timing, but how much fuel your literally burning tells us your true power level...

ZZ3Astro

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zz17iroc

iTrader: (4)

What size TB do you have? If it's still stock size you may want to go to a 58mm. Just a thought? I was just looking at TurboedTPI's set up in GMHTP http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...0/viewall.html and he has a 58mm. I also noticed your set up is real close to his, but your new headers should flow better than his and he has a 4 core IC. What size is yours? Just a thought!

ZZ3Astro

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zz17iroc

iTrader: (4)

Good to hear things are working out man.

freaky

looks good

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Got to be making some steam now if its spinning in second.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Using only fuel as a power indicator is only accurate if the timing is right. I would disregard that info until you get it tuned for the new headers. You could run X amount of fuel and then run 0 degree timing up to 30 timing and output HP would change even though fuel was kept constant and varied AFR.

It seems you understand this because you have realized you have gained a lot of power recovered from pumping losses (lower temps). Now that the charge contains less spent air, you have more O2 avail to make more power. Along with that the temps are lower and allow more timing for more power.

All that work is a step in the right direction and it looks great. Only thing holding it back now is that TPI and I know you like it. It is a trade off, but I think an SR or single plane would really wake it up now.

project89

iTrader: (1)

my car is liek that 1st feels like its n/a , then 2nd it comes alive, then 3rd it really starts to pull.

its actually wierd as the higher the gear im in the faster it accelerates

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

My car is more boost sensitive, low sub 12 lbs it doesnt feel fast.. 500-620 whp. But first and second are still very strong. First used to hook warm roads. second for sure. Once you get around 14-15 things start to heat up. 700's hp. Second gear becomes useless and first has been out the picture along time ago. So you know you got power. 18+ psi is time travel fast, but 3rd gear still hooks from 60 mph. My motor is low comp low dyn comp and probably not the best ring seal lol

Some motors need boost. Some like gear load. Mine likes rpm and spools slower so more gear helps alot more

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Gotta keep in mind the fuels being run and timing advance for the given fuel. Big change in HP output.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

.... you might want to stick to $2.00 ECM's and elusive turbo builds that always seem to come up short with each and every post you write as opposed to sharing nonsensical claims with someone like Steve who I'm sure had his timing very close to where it needed to be. To imply that a set of headers would make that much of a difference with the very same setup, with the same amount of boost, is laughable. Guess we'll chalk that up with your exhaust backpressure and spring theory that even the Turbo Buick guys got a laugh out of awhile back. By the way, telling someone he is taking a step in the right direction who more than likely is running faster than you already is even more laughable lol.

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Drac0nic

Says the king of all hype vaporware builds that get deleted when it is time to put results up.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I had good results with remflex gaskets so far. I think you will like them. No idea what my backpressure is but holding 24 psi boost and i think my backpresure is in the low 30's, just a guess. I dont believe i have any leaks. Didnt on the previous setups over last few yrs

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

What the heck are you talking about lmao? You must be stuck in that same time warp as junkbox thinking I still have the White '84 Anniversary Trans Am turbo build that got sold years ago. Unfortunately that's what happens when you don't comprehend what you are reading. Incidently, at least I take the time and contribute to this forum and post up an actual build thread for people to follow along. How long is it taking you for yours? What are your results? Oh wait, its been years and you still didn't start one. Must be still looking for that right set of exhaust manifolds, I mean they are so hard to find ;rolleyes:. Do you even have a turbo build, or do enjoy tagging along others'? I'd suggest, meh nevermind lol...

Drac0nic

I dont need to be an attention ***** nor overhype a build I know isnt going anywhere fast in order to make my life complete by making my stock junk out to be pure unobtanium. Quite frankly I build for myself not for you. Sorry to douse your hype with a dose of realism.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I forget if we talked about HEI ignitor/module latency in another thread regarding the MS ECM. The stock GM ECMs have a table to correct for the HEI Module latency. The DIY PROM board should have the latencies for the GM HEI modules by part number.
Does the MS ECM have this table and is it filled out properly?

ZZ3Astro

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Drac0nic

If need be he should be able to either get an aftermarket timing tape or use the marks on his balancer if it's aftermarket and has them to figure this out. I'd take a fixed timing light parked and just bring the RPM up and make a table based on how things are right now. I'd definitely want to check the system as a whole for slew, even if it means remapping as a kludge to fix it. If it's exponential that's potentially rough considering.

By the way in "more ignition options" what prediction algorithm are you using? it may be worth it for you to examine it and try to change it especially if it's set to "none."

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quadgoat

iTrader: (1)

What are you running for a fuel pump? I ran into a similar afr issue on the dyno with my car. No matter how much pulse width I added I could not get it to richen up under higher boost. Put a fuel pressure gauge on it and found that under moderate to higher boost fuel pressure was dropping from 40ish psi to 14 psi! The Walbro 255 in the tank was either weak or not up to the task. I dropped in a Walbro 400lph e85 compatible pump and my fueling issues were cured. I would definitely verify your fuel pressure/volume before you tear you hair out too much more. Could even be a plugged fuel filter...


With all the progress you've made I'm sure you can sort out this glitch!!

-Paul

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Drac0nic

Glad to hear you're finding power in the timing. I think you have a ways to go quite frankly. Good luck getting the fueling sorted out. You may even be able to find some MPG, spool time and driveability in there with timing too. Eagerly awaiting this car hitting the rollers or the track.

Sucks you may have to drop the tank again but at the same time look on the plus side you figured out why the car wasn't going lean like you thought it should with the old map. It's just like a computer, you're eliminating variables and it's showing results.

I dunno, find someone you can steal the -8 lines off their car, or yank the hood, stick a cell in the passenger seat and see if it goes away. Worse comes to worse and stick in the trunk, run the lines up front and make it look like the time machine.

Another thought for you, how easy is the wiring to access close up to the pump? Just saying it may be a good idea to hook a meter of some kind up and run it to the front and see if the voltage to the pump is dropping somewhere checkable. Yeah I know it sounds sort of out there, but it could be something like that. Have you tried bypassing the relay as well? After a few good runs, I'd go to the back where you have it, feel around on it and see if anything is hot. If so you may have a resistance point that's dropping voltage under load.

ZZ3Astro

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IROCgiraffe

iTrader: (3)

That thing pulls nicely!

ZZ3Astro

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