He bought mine back in August. The cast manifold setup. I had a T76 on it, but he felt it was too big for his stock L98, so he just bought the kit minus the turbo.

-- Joe

 

Yup. He has manifolds, crossover, oil drain, oil feed, wastegate, and downpipe. He just needs to mount a turbo, and re-work the downpipe to meet his catback.

-- Joe

 

Was this the setup you did the L98 single turbo kit build thread?

 

No, that was the chinese BBS knock off. That kit actually worked well, but had plug issues with my AFR heads (raised exhaust port).

That kit is on my buddies L98 (1988 GTA).

This kit was entitled something like "Single turbo with cast manifolds" basically, I copied another member's design but I used LT1 fbody manifolds rather than TPI manifolds. They have larger runners and have better flow.

Crossover goes in front of the accessory drive, WG open to atmosphere and 3" downpipe.


If I ever do another turbo thridgen, I'll just use the cast banks manifolds (twin). Much tighter packaging, more professional looking.


-- Joe

 

Banks are so much money tho

Just wondering if a t4 small cover 70mm would clear the hood in a thirdgen with that kit.

A stock 305 will spool that .96 ar t70 on3 very quick if my remote turbo does spool fairly decent. 350 even quicker

 

OK...now back to the question ....

What about these injectors ?????

 

On3 T76 had about 1/2" to the hood on my Firebird.

-- Joe

 

WHAT...?????? I thought we went through this already and a T70 on a 305/350 5 spd would be great..... ??? ..a t76 would spool too slow ..?

 

Accel injectors suck, and it's hard to say what you will need without knowing how much power you are going to make (turbo selection).

Also, I'd err on the side of caution using big injectors on an EBL. An EBL is really just a stock ECM with some flash memory and extra I/O, and the injector drivers are all hardware. You have zero control over the injector firing strategy, meaning if it's too rich at idle and part throttle you won't be able to "tune it out" by changing the firing events.


-- Joe

 

The 76 would spool a tad slower but the turbine is same as the 70. So its close to same only difference is overcoming the inertia of the larger wheel

Run either but the 70 is more than enough to break the motor

55's are more than enough injector. They will work once well tuned. What brand?
Edit: accel lol i rather see you get lucas 42's or siemens 60

 

I'd say no to the Accel injectors, too much bad history along with no real compensation data. As for sizing them, get ones that cover the required HP level, but not too much more flow. A 55#/hr injector (8 of them) will support close to 800 HP (flywheel).

For the best and easiest tuning get injectors which the compensation data exists. Ford Motorsport and DeatschWerks both publish this data for the injectors they sell. A 47#/hr injector will support about 660 HP, so the Ford Racing M-9593-LU47 is a good choice for that level of HP. Note that this is a long injector but has the USCAR (US car) type connector.

Stock TPI uses the Jetronic/Minitimer connector. The up side is that compensation data is available for them.

This was just an example, there are other injectors available.

RBob.

 

^^^ You'd be foolish to NOT use something he personally has tested with this ECM.


-- Joe

 

Could you post the eqn used to get 800HP with 55#/hr injectors and turbo? I come up with only 680 flywheel hp.

Easy enough to calibrate injectors. Put ECM in test mode with a forced injector PW. Mess with open and/or close times to see when the squirt.

Best bang for the buck is P&H injectors if the ECM supports them. Can find 55#/hr sets for $100.

 

If you map out the 70 and 76 comp wheels on a stock 350 both are a good fit. 70 ideal for 305, and 76 ideal for 350. But, either wheel on either engine is fine assuming the right turbine is used.

On the 305, with a small turbine you can get into a case where boost comes in too early and it will surge in the 0-5psi area. But that is on a stock turd 305 tpi or lesser 305 (aka TBI).

 

He can't do P&H injectors on that hardware AFAIK, unless you can use nissan resistors with delco hardware? I feel like it would have been brought up before if possible.


800hp, .90 duty cycle, and .50 bsfc I come up with 55.8 lb /hr.


I don't think he's going to have enough intercooler to pull off a .50 BSFC..



-- Joe

 

With the car being an '87 MAF setup it is easiest to go with the EBL Flash ECM and a 2-bar MAP sensor. With the optional 4-Injector Upgrade it is capable of running 8 low impedance port injectors. We don't offer this on the EBL P4 system as the '7749 ECMs are hard to come by (two inj drivers). The ECM we use only has a single injector driver.

{OK, I goofed, it's a 350 not a 305. Values recalculated.}

That was more of an example then anything else, just to put the injector sizing into perspective. At 10 - 12 psi on a stock 350 it isn't going to be anywhere near 800 HP. The '87 L98 is rated at 225 HP at 4400 RPM (from this site). Even if pushed to 15 psi and the HP doubles to 450 HP:

450 HP @ .55 BSFC @ 85% DC:

450 * .55 / .85 = 291.2 #/hr fuel requirement

291 / 8 injectors = 36.4 #/hr

These flow at 34 #/hr @ 39.15 psi fuel pressure, more at 43.5 psi:

M-9593-LU34K 34 lbs./hr. 11-18 ohms L Jetronic/Minitimer Black
M-9593-LU34A 34 lbs./hr. 11-18 ohms L USCAR M-14464-A8 Black

Same injector different connectors, have compensation data for them.

RBob.

 

He said he bought a "used Dynamic EBL". I don't know what he got, the first gen, a flash, a P4, etc.



35.83 lb/hr right?

-- Joe

 

No big deal, can cross that bridge when we come to it.

According to the Bernoulli equation, yes.

RBob.

 

cheesehomer, more info on the injectors I listed above (from their web site):

M-9593-LU34A: 34 lb/hr, 4-hole, high-impedance fuel injector
Original equipment on 2011-2014 5.0L Mustang and 2012-2013 Boss 302

Good possibility you can pick up a used set for a good price.

RBob.

 

Hello RBob
I want to thank you and everyone else for the great information.

I did pick up a used Dynamic EBL with port mods "multi ports", it also came with a TT1 control box and 02 sensor

 

Looks like you are rocking and rolling!

I think Street Lethal mentioned in the spring that RBob added wastegate control to the EBL Flash, so if you pick up a WG solenoid you can dial in a boost curve.

-- Joe

 

Ya, that sounds good, I gotta look into that..

I don't know about Rock'in or rolling, still need Turbo, intercooler with piping , injectors and fuel pump. I try to check the local classifieds daily, but looks like I will have to bite the bullet and purchase new from the USA at .30 cents on the dollar....... !!!! lol,,

 

Hey guys, just a theory question,

What would an OEM TPI 92' engine produce with 25psi of boost? If the OEM camshaft was used, (with a good enough spring), and pretending the oem headgasket was up to the challenge, and that the pistons would last at least one run to get a dyno from it.

My guess is something like
15psi 450rwhp (480bhp)
20psi 490rwhp (520bhp)
25psi 530rwhp (560bhp)

mainly due to cam/head limiting of course. thoughts?

 

I think the TPI intake restriction is going to make the majority of the boost and the combustion chamber is going to net much less benefit. Peak power is at a low rpm around 3800-4000 and especially with stock compression is very timing sensitive thus prone to detonation. I'd guess you'd be 300-330 rwhp at 15 psi based on my experience. That's wheel hp so probably high 300s at the crank. Torque will be impressive though. I was putting down 378 rwtq at 10 psi but only 272 rwhp.


Performance will be decent - 13 psi on my stock 87 got me almost 7.89 @ 87.72 in the 1/8 (12.2x 1/4). Even though the theory is running another 10psi should make a significant difference, I think the restrictive nature of the tpi intake makes a significant impact on that improvement.

 

wow. Ok cool, so only 350~bhp at 15psi and then perhaps 450bhp at 25psi on the TPI engine then? So 420rwhp at 25psi does that sound right? not even close to 500. Do you think a camshaft alone would bring that back to 500+? I realize once we cam the motor the TPI intake starts to lose its effective range of helpfulness, so the idea behind the original question sort of begs the "mid-range power" of the TPI intake be used to its best advance (short-mid duration camshafts).

 

Wow, these 34lb injectors are discontinued and where very difficult to find, but I was able to find a person in Calgary, Canada who had a set new never used.

 

Then I was able to find a On3 T70mm in a local classified and picked it up today. The only problem was the ar on the exhaust side is .68 instead of what I wanted a .96 , I figure if It spools to quick I can change the housing.
Boy, it's a lot smaller than I though it would be for a V8 engine.
What ya think..??? Will it spool to quick...????

 

My 3400-ish lb 91 z went 110 mph on 9-10 psi. 305 tpi all stock. Thats likely 280 whp give or take. My 3650 lb ls1 ta went 107-108 on 320-330 whp.

 

That cover looks different than my on3 t70. It will def spool very fast lol my remote setup spools well and you are doing a front mount

 

Different, how...same make and model..?????
Very fast....How fast..?? Will this create a problem..??

 

Fast as in it will be a snappy boost building car.Ill tell you right now with the on3 before you actually start the motor.Take the inlet housing off and reseal it with red permatex or equivalent.They are known for the original seals to leak and mine certainly did out of the box brand new and I found out the hard way.Glad to see you finally got a turbo picked up.Hope the car is put together before spring and maybe we can line up for some street/strip runs and if your down for some oldschool armdrop races there is a event 3 times a year in Picton where easily 2-300 cars run what a brung at a old airfield.Makes for a great weekend.

 

Street or RBob can you give me more information on that or a link to some information.


Thanks George

 

We have working wastegate control code in the EBL SFI-6 system. It has been successfully tested on a number of turbo cars.

There are no plans to use this code in the EBL Flash ECM.

RBob.

 

That suck's big time....Gotta ask though...how hard would it be to add that code or program to my Flash...???


Would be a great feature with the 5spd to control boost by gear

 

The ECM has no idea what gear you are in.

I suppose he could create a target boost @ rpm vs mph.

Don't think much demand exists for that. Most people just want a flat boost curve and some overboost protection.

Most aftermarket is solenoid dutycycle @ tps vs rpm.

The boost solenoid is a frequency driven vac valve.

If you are dead set on electronic boost control, you should talk to Orr. He's running an LSx truck PCM with custom software which is supposedly pretty fantastic. Or you can just spring the wastegate appropriately and keep what you've already paid for

-- Joe


-- Joe

 

Actually, it does. Simple N/V calculation for manuals, and for auto's shift selector and pressure switches. With the waste gate code using that for boost per gear.

RBob.

 

N/v ? I'm assuming vss vs rpm?

Can you shoehorn the wg code into it for him?


-- Joe

 

That's EXCITING ..!!!!

 

Why? He already said he has no intention of adding WG support to the EBL flash.

-- Joe

 

George, it wasn't boost control that I mentioned awhile back w/the EBL-P4 , it was alky control. Controlling boost though is essentially very easy, with a number of different ways to accomplish it. I myself invested in a standalone EBC not too long ago, but controlling it through your ECM should not pose a problem. When it was mentioned that it isn't being planned to add boost control, I believe that is more in terms of the XDF itself, meaning there won't be a designated area specifically for that command, but that doesn't mean you cannot control it through a different avenue with Tuner Pro...

 

The GM WG solenoid is frequency based, right? What pin on the EBL would you use to control it?

I think George should just spring his WG for now. It's his first build.

-- Joe

 

If I were him Joe, I would consider running dual Dawes valves. The first as a solid low boost manual controller set to a predetermined boost tolerance for the street, then the second high boost valve activated through the ECM to override the first valve triggered through any available ECM channel with relay. This is probably the easiest and cheapest way to go for him. He can be a little creative as to how and when he would want the second valve triggered, but I would recommend a low boost street setting of between 6-8 psi, and high boost setting of no more than 15-psi. It's definitely not a modern way of controlling boost, but in his situation he's only really needing a simple low boost and high boost setting...