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I just bought a Paxton supercharger and was wondering if anyone has the install instructions for it? I know I can buy them off ebay for like $20 but I wanted to try here first. Also, the kit I was able to find is complete but it is for a Serp belt car. All my cars have the V-Belt set up. Does anyone have the older V-Belt bracket so that maybe I don't have to make the swap to serp belt? Lastly, this is my first real S/C build. Not gonna push it too hard maybe 6 psi. What do you recommend for injectors and the fuel pump (plus anything else I will need to effect timing/spark etc). My car is totally factory drivetrain wise. 86 305 TPI, 700R4, 3.27 9 Bolt. I am not looking for the whole, "If you change the heads, cam" blah blah blah. Just trying to Put this thing on a somewhat factory 305 TPI, and see what she can do. Then we will go from there. Thanks.
You can run used, but good, LT1 injectors (24-lb) and be fine at 6-psi, or even up the fuel pressure a little if need be. You can run used, but good, Grand National injectors (28-psi) and have room to grow a little without the need for upping the fuel pressure. This will at least save you some money if it is a factor. If money is no concern, then just buy 42-lb injectors and be done with it. The stock pump will be fine for your needs, just make sure it isn't on its' last leg...
I have the Ford Blue 24 Lbs laying around. I bought them when I got my SLP intake set up. I will look into a adjustable fuel pressure regular. I want to get the one that is a ****. Think it's a Holley.
I have the Ford Blue 24 Lbs laying around. I bought them when I got my SLP intake set up. I will look into a adjustable fuel pressure regular. I want to get the one that is a ****. Think it's a Holley.
You can go by boost range, as 7.5-psi of boost will essentially net you half of your current horsepower, with your targeted boost pressure level of 6-psi netting you a tad less than that. 30-lb injectors tend to max out a tad above 400 horsepower after upping the fuel pressure, and in your case, I would seriously consider going with a bigger injector over your 24-lb injectors so you don't have to worry about it. Where do you stand as far as tuning equipment?
You can go by boost range, as 7.5-psi of boost will essentially net you half of your current horsepower, with your targeted boost pressure level of 6-psi netting you a tad less than that. 30-lb injectors tend to max out a tad above 400 horsepower after upping the fuel pressure, and in your case, I would seriously consider going with a bigger injector over your 24-lb injectors so you don't have to worry about it. Where do you stand as far as tuning equipment?
- Rob
That Is something to take into consideration. The 86 TPI had about 215hp, so as a rough estimate the car should be around 300-315. I also plan to add ported SLP Runners, Edelbrock Base/ Headers, BBK 58MM TB, and few odds and ends. I will be swapping the car over to Speed density, as well as deleting the 9th injector. Not sure how much I should have the base, plenum and runners ported to. The goal here is not to totally tank the gas mileage too. Think I get around 20mpg now and that is ok.
In your situation I wouldn't spend that much time porting the system out, but try to remove as many obstructions as you can that lead to the combustion chamber with whatever system you go with. A smoother intake will increase the velocity of the existing air, but the more you hog it out, the lower the gas mileage because you are increasing plenum volume that will now have to be compensated for with more fuel at all three levels; idle, part and wide. I mean it's not a "drastic" decrease in mileage unless you slap in a radical cam along with it, but I mention this because fuel mileage seems to be a concern of yours, so no need to overdo things....
As for the ECM system, consider an EBL Flash. It uses the existing wiring harness and switches your setup over to Speed Density. Just a few wires to re-pin which is simple, and there are plenty of users on this board that use the system and can help you dial it all in. You won't find a less expensive, user friendly, Flash based system on the planet that is also a breeze to install.
Also i’d probably want closer to 30-36 lb injectors for room.
Now i was on the rich side but i was near 70% duty cycle on my stock 305 at 9-10 psi with 36 lb. stock fuel pressure reg so its not exactly boost referenced
car trapped 110 on 8-9 psi so i would guess 280-290 whp since my ta went 108 with 310 whp and was heavier
In your situation I wouldn't spend that much time porting the system out, but try to remove as many obstructions as you can that lead to the combustion chamber with whatever system you go with. A smoother intake will increase the velocity of the existing air, but the more you hog it out, the lower the gas mileage because you are increasing plenum volume that will now have to be compensated for with more fuel at all three levels; idle, part and wide. I mean it's not a "drastic" decrease in mileage unless you slap in a radical cam along with it, but I mention this because fuel mileage seems to be a concern of yours, so no need to overdo things....
As for the ECM system, consider an EBL Flash. It uses the existing wiring harness and switches your setup over to Speed Density. Just a few wires to re-pin which is simple, and there are plenty of users on this board that use the system and can help you dial it all in. You won't find a less expensive, user friendly, Flash based system on the planet that is also a breeze to install.
Wow, I didn't even know something like this existed. I will be adding this to my cart. This will make my whole build so much easier. I am also adding a digital dash to this car as it is a 86. I bought a whole complete 86 digital dash car just for the swap. Which will happen first. Which injectors do you guys recommend? Seems like I will go with somewhere between 30-35lbs. As for porting goes, I was planning on just getting, as you said, all of the big restrictions out of the way. The plenum being the biggest offender. Get everything sorted out just a bit to make everything match. I really don't plan on changing the stock heads or cam, BUT I will most likely end up doing something with them eventually as oem is very restrictive. Just like I said, I really don't want to kill the fuel mileage. It's easy to make a lot of power but keeping all comforts while also making good numbers is what really impresses me.
Thanks for all the help so far. Up to this point in my build suspension has been my main concern. I have not dove into building the engine up until this point.
Mine was a turbo. I might have been conservative but it was tickling the knock sensor which probably was overly sensitive to begin with. Your mileage may vary, most setups are generally ok with no timing pulled up to 5-6 psi well cooled but not all. I would pull some before leaning on it to much just to be safe
I do not plan on running a intercooler to start. As time passes, and I have more free time/money to upgrade my rear end/Trans I will most likely add on to the engine to make more power. I am lost when it comes to BTMs or Aftermarket ECMs (such as the EBL flash). Never tuned before but really excited to learn. In the car currently, ignition wise it is all ac delco. I was planning on going with some type of MSD set up. I got a Davis Unified ignition distributor in the digital dash car. It was in there when I bought it, and I plan to use it on this car I am building. That's about it.
I do not plan on running a intercooler to start. As time passes, and I have more free time/money to upgrade my rear end/Trans I will most likely add on to the engine to make more power. I am lost when it comes to BTMs or Aftermarket ECMs (such as the EBL flash). Never tuned before but really excited to learn. In the car currently, ignition wise it is all ac delco. I was planning on going with some type of MSD set up. I got a Davis Unified ignition distributor in the digital dash car. It was in there when I bought it, and I plan to use it on this car I am building. That's about it.
You can use a Fuel Management Unit which will increase fuel during boost, and a Boost Timing Master which will reduce your spark advance timing under boost. those items would allow you to keep your stock ECM and tune since you're not changing anything else about the engine combination. that would be exactly how the kit would be provided by Paxton or vortech or whoever.
Alternatively, you can replace the stock ECM with an aftermarket computer which will allow you to use a laptop to tune both the fueling in spark advanced functionality. The EBL is a combination of a stock ECU that has custom programming, and a daughter board which allows for logging functionality as well as near flashing capability. It gives some enhanced functionality such as the ability to control boost that was not in the native ECM while being based on stock GM software, so emissions and things like that will still work as stock.
The real benefits ofthee EBL is the support from the Creator and the forum. If you go with a holly, motec, or megasquirt you'll be expected to actually read documentation, attend efi academy training, and fully understand electronic engine controls before tech support is really willing to deal with you.
if you are not going to use an intercooler, you will need to do something about your spark advance as Justin pointed out.
I like the idea of replacing the stock ecm with the EBL. Seems to be much more adjustable than the alternative. Plus I want to move away from MAF for speed density which the EBL allows. The more I look into it a intercooler is a total no go, as it will not work with the air intake I am planning to run.
I like the idea of replacing the stock ecm with the EBL. Seems to be much more adjustable than the alternative. Plus I want to move away from MAF for speed density which the EBL allows. The more I look into it a intercooler is a total no go, as it will not work with the air intake I am planning to run.
On my T-Trim intercooled car I'm running 32 degrees of advance and no issues. My IAT temps are damn near ambient.
-- Joe
Intresting, how much boost? my BPE heads call for 35* total, and im pulling 10* for a total of 25* @ 4K on 8PSI. Looks like I'm leaving quite a bit on the table. My IAT's are 15* above ambient after a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear WOT pull
Last edited by 86CamaroDan; 01-29-2019 at 08:43 AM.
Intresting, how much boost? my BPE heads call for 35* total, and im pulling 10* for a total of 25* @ 4K on 8PSI. Looks like I'm leaving quite a bit on the table. My IAT's are 15* above ambient after a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear WOT pull
Good question. I was doing 2nd gear pulls on route 93 and it went past 10 before the BOV spring let go. I adjusted the BOV but I haven't run the car since. I think I made a post on it, although it might have been on a different forum. The BOV was dumping boost.
Edit:
So I found it. The first time I went out it was dumping around 5psi. I "tightened" it up, then it was dumping at 10psi. I went on vacation and when I got back it was cold so I put the car in the trailer for the season.
With only an 80 degree air temp I don't think it will be an issue, but I do have knock control so it will pull back if it pings.
The question of course is how much heat soak will the IC get at the track vs street driving. That I don't have any real data on.
What did you used to see for intake temps on your 401 at the track vs the street ?
I do need to get the BOV thing figured out though. I wish there was a formula that I could use to determine what my expected boost would be with the given impeller speed/airflow and knowing what the heads flow, cam specs, etc. I used to have some cool simulation software on my old Windows PC (engine analyzer pro) but when the drive crashed I lost it and to buy new software is like $400.
For all I know, that blower might only make 10-12psi on my 412" with AFR 210 heads..
What did you used to see for intake temps on your 401 at the track vs the street ?
at the 1000 whp dyno mark which was 24 psi, ambient was like 40 deg and falling. Iat at start of run was 45 i think. End of short dyno pull was 93 deg.
At the race track in 55-60 or so deg ambient, after burn out and stage, the iat was near 80 (heatsoaked most likely). End of pass 8.9 sec was 175 or so. Very poor cooling out of that treadstone 3.5” core. Way over powered it
generally street driving, while constantly moving it was always 10 deg or so over ambient. And short pulls it never got hot enough to worry
just saying a big diff between short street pull and a full track pass, the heat grows with time. If the cooler is big enough it may not be as drastic of an issue lol
my air water system would start near 80 deg as well and end an 8.2-8.5 sec run at 30 psi at 126-130. Much better. Ice water was 55 deg. If i wanted cooler i would use more ice and prechill
at the 1000 whp dyno mark which was 24 psi, ambient was like 40 deg and falling. Iat at start of run was 45 i think. End of short dyno pull was 93 deg.
At the race track in 55-60 or so deg ambient, after burn out and stage, the iat was near 80 (heatsoaked most likely). End of pass 8.9 sec was 175 or so. Very poor cooling out of that treadstone 3.5” core. Way over powered it
generally street driving, while constantly moving it was always 10 deg or so over ambient. And short pulls it never got hot enough to worry
just saying a big diff between short street pull and a full track pass, the heat grows with time. If the cooler is big enough it may not be as drastic of an issue lol
my air water system would start near 80 deg as well and end an 8.2-8.5 sec run at 30 psi at 126-130. Much better. Ice water was 55 deg. If i wanted cooler i would use more ice and prechill
I wonder what your outlet temperature was on your turbos.
I have an air-water setup in the shop but I never installed it. The air to air seems fine for my car. I'll probably end up using the air-water on something down the road.
made me nervous reading they want you to use stock timing in a hot air blower, on cast internals lol til i read the part they include a water injection system. Makes sense
on good intercooled turbo cars you typically run full timing til 4-7 psi depending. Even some non intercooled but they may be on race gas. But pump gas hot air makes me abit more worried
Last page I included as a warning ...They also gave a sticker with the kit "92 Octane Only" Attached image is the sticker removed from the last page of that pdf manual^^:
Last edited by MrPackstin; 02-04-2019 at 02:03 PM.
made me nervous reading they want you to use stock timing in a hot air blower, on cast internals lol til i read the part they include a water injection system. Makes sense
on good intercooled turbo cars you typically run full timing til 4-7 psi depending. Even some non intercooled but they may be on race gas. But pump gas hot air makes me abit more worried
Water injection is how I cooked my 355 back in 2003 lol. Relay failed. Boom!
I inject methanol (windshield washer fluid). S/Cs are high maintenance that is for sure. You must make sure the pump is actually injecting and properly atomizing the methanol/water blend.
EDIT: A budget methanol/water injection kit from Jegs would certainly be a good idea.
Last edited by MrPackstin; 02-04-2019 at 02:12 PM.
I inject methanol (windshield washer fluid). S/Cs are high maintenance that is for sure. You must make sure the pump is actually injecting and properly atomizing the methanol/water blend.
I wouldnt say that. I fill mine up every other month and drive the wheels off the thing. Then again I also refuse to rely on the system to the point where if it fails so does my engine. I spray for added benefit, not just to get by.
My pump is setup to go off during boost only. I wired a piezo buzzer in conjunction with the pressure switch attached to the upper plenum. When the methanol pump is running I now know 12v is going to the pump. I just check the pump periodically to make sure the pump is good. Intercoolers are a bit more simple and lower maintenance in my opinion.
Last edited by MrPackstin; 02-05-2019 at 12:44 PM.
I wouldnt say that. I fill mine up every other month and drive the wheels off the thing. Then again I also refuse to rely on the system to the point where if it fails so does my engine. I spray for added benefit, not just to get by.
yes. Ideally you want a system that has a safety iat to trigger over enrichment for safety if injection system fails
a small meth nozzle wont provide alot of fuel but it will be enough to keep you cool in a 1/4 mile pass. If it fails your iat could be 40+ deg more. What i do is if i have a mat/iat enrichment table, if normal operating range with meth or water injection is 120 deg lets say, i start enrichment of a few percent at say 130-135. Emergency dump fuel to flood motor to let me know something is wrong will be at 140-150 or whatever you feel uncomfortable at. A good like 20-30% dump will feel like you hit the brakes lol. Oversizing injectors are good for this.
if you have a iat vs timing table i pull 1-2 deg early then much more late for safety when temps get hot
My current biggest concern after reading the Install manual is that my bracket seems to be way off from the one pictured. I was already aware that I was missing the back "Black" mounting bracket. So that is not a big deal. Also thanks to this manual I have a list of all of the hardware I maybe be missing. Just worried that I may have a bracket for a corvette or something. Thoughts?
Also I have been looking into intercoolers more, and if I do go intercooled it will have to be a "Air-Water" unit. I found this site selling these cheaper intercoolers while I was digging through old posts on LS1 Tech. What do you all think about this site?
They work good. Also can check cxracing. Cheap china intercoolers that do work.
fwiw i had two cx units and currently own the largest frozenboost unit for my bbc
yes. Ideally you want a system that has a safety iat to trigger over enrichment for safety if injection system fails
a small meth nozzle wont provide alot of fuel but it will be enough to keep you cool in a 1/4 mile pass. If it fails your iat could be 40+ deg more. What i do is if i have a mat/iat enrichment table, if normal operating range with meth or water injection is 120 deg lets say, i start enrichment of a few percent at say 130-135. Emergency dump fuel to flood motor to let me know something is wrong will be at 140-150 or whatever you feel uncomfortable at. A good like 20-30% dump will feel like you hit the brakes lol. Oversizing injectors are good for this.
if you have a iat vs timing table i pull 1-2 deg early then much more late for safety when temps get hot
Im not even sure i need meth in my situation to be honest. I have the ability to pull timing vs iat temps, but never really used it. due to the previous set ups heat soaking, like if i ran into a store real quick. Mine is also set up to come on at 3lbs rather than IAT temps.
Originally Posted by t/aws61985
Also I have been looking into intercoolers more, and if I do go intercooled it will have to be a "Air-Water" unit. I found this site selling these cheaper intercoolers while I was digging through old posts on LS1 Tech. What do you all think about this site?
They work good. Also can check cxracing. Cheap china intercoolers that do work.
fwiw i had two cx units and currently own the largest frozenboost unit for my bbc
Im not even sure i need meth in my situation to be honest. I have the ability to pull timing vs iat temps, but never really used it. due to the previous set ups heat soaking, like if i ran into a store real quick. Mine is also set up to come on at 3lbs rather than IAT temps.
For street cars A2A are better as they dont heat soak. Also, id be skeptical of a kit that cheap.
A2A is Impossible for the intake set up I will be running. I am most likely gonna send it, and buy one of their whole kits as it will just make the whole install easier for me.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...rger-sale.html
Well Thanks to this dead thread I found out that I have a V-Belt Paxton Bracket. Good as it makes for a cheaper install. Sucks as I will have to delete the AC which I did not want to do. One thing at a time. Who do you recommend to rebuild these paxtons? I heard that the mustang guys over at LMR rebuild them? Also heard about this place called paradise wheels.
Also....Now I need the V belt 85-87 install manual....anyone??
01-25-2019, 09:09 AM
Then again I also refuse to rely on the system to the point where if it fails so does my engine. I spray for added benefit, not just to get by. 
