A: Other people who respond to such questions just to tell the OP he should have used the search.

I see a lot of fellow members doing this, and some are veteran members who in my opinion should know better. I'm sure I've probably even done it myself in the past, but after some thinking I've come to some conclusions. While it's true that lots of times people fail to use the search feature when they should, it's also true that searches of common problems often return way too many threads with similar questions answered with "use the search!" and nothing else, making a real answer hard to find and encouraging somebody to make a new post about it. I've experienced this several times in my own searches, otherwise I wouldn't be posting about it. Even when super common questions are asked, I propose that TGO members be encouraged to contribute to the discussion in some way, either through a link or direct answer, or don't post at all. No going off on new members for not using the search. It doesn't help anybody, and makes the person doing it look like they are on a power trip.

By chastising people for asking common questions, we risk putting ourselves into a condition where our archived knowledge base becomes static, a sin in an active internet forum. Sure, many answers are the same now as they were 5 years ago, but it is foolish to assume this will always be the case. TGO may be busy, but it's not so busy that the world comes to an end if a question is posted that just happened to be answered the week before.

Just some thoughts.

 

Thank you for stating the obvious, but apparently no one else here understands that either.

And I've over and over run into problems that are extremely difficult to narrow down to get the answers you need. And a lot of people just need specialized help for a common problem with a twist. It's definitely annoying to have the millionth guy come in and say "Can you do true duals?", yeah, but I agree, there's no point in posting to tell them to search.

But there's always potential for new knowledge to be shared. New users with their own experiences taht never saw these older threads and now have the oppurtunity to actually contribute to the knowledge pool, but if everyone keeps saying "SEARCH!!!!" this cant happen. You're exactly right. We'll just end up with an "all tehse questions were answered 10 years ago" approach to every single thread, and then all of our knowledge will become 10 years out of date. Things change. Products become available, other products disappear. Certain solutions become impractical and other ones become more practical. Things change with time, and the search is amazing for harvesting vast amounts of information, but it's no substitute for new knowledge being injected into the system.

I agree... we shouldn't allow "USE THE SEARCH!" posts unless they add something useful to the thread.

 

I guess that I'm guilty of the "Use the Search" (OK, I KNOW I am), but I can't & won't apologize for it. Come back in 10 years & tell me what you still think.

Us Senior Members don't have a problem with NEW questions (few & far between on old stuff) .....NEW knowledge being shared, nor knowledge of NEW technologies...NEW ideas. But like the OLD "Can I install dual Exhaust?" question? The answer is no......YOU cannot install dual exhaust. Yes, it can be done, just not by YOU! Had that person looked AT ALL, they never woulda even asked.

Hell, I saw a question the other day, that is answered by a STICKY! Sorry, but how stupid can someone be to not see the sticky on the topic?


In fact when I do tell people to search, I usually do one first. When my search returns the answer in the top 2 or 3 results in the thread TOPIC, that tells me: A, the answer is here. B, the answer is easy to find & C, the pwrson made no effort to learn for THEMSELVES. Instead, they were being just plain lazy & expected the answers to be handed to them on a platter. They made NO effort to expand their own knowledge. Not only does finding the answer for youself feel good, because you didn't have to rely on others to solve a problem, you just might run across other info you didn't know, thereby learning even MORE stuff, in addiion to the answer you were looking for!

 

I don't think I've ever given the "Use the Search" response unless it was to expand on what I was trying to describe to someone, but I can EASILY relate to why it is used. A 17 Y/O kid might not know the factory wheel offset and wants to get aftermarket wheels. Seems like an easy enough search - How long does it take you to locate the correct info ? ( It just took me longer than 2 minutes so I quit ). A newbie doesn't want to search old threads for hours when posting a single question thread takes a minute, and maybe 4 minutes for someone to explain the answer. Times have changed and younger people have come to expect instant gratification. Unlike 10 years ago; Everything is "instant" these days !!

I use the search as much as possible and it's not that great. ( I'm being kind ! ) Sometimes looking thru old posts for a simple Spec can take forever, but I could have posted it - went back to wrenching - and came back 2 hours later to have the answer I needed so I can proceed with the project. In that example it really sucks when someone replies "do a search" and it's pretty cool when a guy sitting next to a shop manual opens the book and takes 1 minute to post the spec.

There are a lot of experience levels using this site. The true veterans should probably refrain from "Use The Search" responses and give some of the less seasoned members time to respond to the newbie's need for quick & easy info. Better for the Vets to get involved to correct any mis-information later than to simply post "Use The Search" !

 

Very succinctly put. I couldn't agree more.

JamesC

 

You could just do as I do and when you see the same stuff being asked that has already been asked before then I just don't answer and look at other threads instead of telling them to use the search . I have done searches before and got so many threads come up and no answers so I just went on about my busieness . If the people that post a new thread on an old question want an answer then maybe someone else can give them the info . I think we should have a way of telling all new members to do a search first then if they can't get an answer to post .

 

My very first post in my very first forum was a repost, I don't have a problem with people telling the OP that there is a search function as long as they give up the link to answer the original question. But when people just say "repost" or "use the search" it's not helpful.

 

I agree. I once spent 2 hours trying to find the info I needed because I knew it was posted before. I never did find it, but later I figured it out on my own.

 

I USED TO belong to a forum where there were a bunch of self proclaimes know it alls who seemed to spend a considerable amount of time searching forums for threads they considered redundant so they could berate the individual for not using the search function and wading through all the returns.... IMO, it was a total turn off for anyone knew on the forum and not familiar with how to properly use the search capabilities...and a lot of them left....

To just say "do a search" is liking telling someone that you don't have the time to bother with their question--maybe it is redundant--but so what???? It's obviously not to the individual who posted the question...

Perhaps a better way, as others have suggested, would be to do a search, supply a link and perhaps a helpful suggestion or two on how useful the search function can be.... But then, as on any forum, some choose rudeness over common courtesy....

 

This "problem" (users not searching, users told to search) exists on nearly all (large) forums.

Even the best search engines would not be able to change the fact that it's generally easier to post a new thread and then wait to be personally addressed/served versus searching and finding an answer on your own. That would go for just about any other (large) forum on the Internet that has a decent amount of material. And this issue isn't even isolated to forums. How many people read the owner/instruction manual? And contact support (official or not)? I'm sure many have heard the phrase "RTFM" for just these reasons.

People do need to realize how to utilize the tools that are available to them and make use of them. As ThirdGen.org has been in existence for over 10 years, and many years worth of threads are still available (some senior members consider ThirdGen.org's earlier content at it's best), many questions have been asked and answered. Many of the questions have not only not changed, as far as answer wise, but have been asked very recently.

The daily correspondences we receive about forum related topics (which are often covered in the forum) do tell me that there are some who do not take the time to help themselves. For example, despite the "sticky" thread in each Classifieds section about being unable to post in the Classifieds, new users still ask us why they cannot post in the Classifieds. Even when I posted a notice on the Contact Us form (which the user would use to send us their inquiry) that specific question was still being asked. That's missing the notice two times in a row. Now I'm sure there are genuine cases where someone may have overlooked the information, but I'm also sure there are some cases where effort wasn't exactly made. Unless the information was annoyingly plastered, that is hard to fight.

The point is, there is value in teaching users how to utilize the tools they have available to them. I'm sure everyone has heard of the old "teach a man to fish" saying, right?

I do not see it as "chastising" when the author of the thread is suggested to perform a search. It would probably be helpful to post some information and/or search examples. Posting just to say to "use the search" is probably not the most helpful solution. If you do not want to help, you can easily skip the thread/post.

If true "chastising" were done, then it probably should be reported via the Report Post feature () as it would be against our general guidelines.

 

Unfortunately there is no way to quantify this. It's better to re-answer a question who's answer has not changed (while possibly attempting to teach the usefulness of the search feature) than to refer a question who's answer has changed to an outdated answer.

Very true. Which is why members could quickly perform a search of their own, post 1 or 2 threads in response, and in doing so, explain to the new user the effectiveness of using the search feature. Chances are the user will learn from this. This may sound like a lot to ask of members, but it's a way of giving back, something we all should probably do a bit more based on the large amount of help and information we've received from these forums. And, if you think about it, somebody has NO BUSINESS telling a user to use the search unless they've performed the search themselves and knows for sure an answer can be found that way. So theoretically, it's no extra work. (Yes, I know some things are so common a search need not be performed to know for certain an answer exists, but often times a question has something unique about it that EXPERIENCED thirdgenners may know doesn't matter, but might not be clear to the person asking the supposed redundant question.)

It's a very sad day when I commonly see the first line in a user's post read something like "Yes I searched....etc...." in fear of being told their question is redundant and they should have searched.

 

Agreed on all counts. I've made several posts and felt compelled to use the "I did search but it didnt help because of X, Y, or Z".

I also agree that no one should be told to search unless the member has attempted to search for them and gotten the correct answer. I am here often enough that I see threads come and go and when someone comes in and asks a question that's been answered, I can generally find the original post and I'll try to link it to them. Sometimes information is obvious, and sometimes it's buried.

But the way I see it, if you want to be so condescending that you'll just post "GO SEARCH" and carry on with your business, you should be banned. Telling someone to search is fine if you've searched and can provide some good threads. This is how I generally handle this stuff. At least give them some good search terms to start with if they dont know where to start.

Just posting "Use the search" is unnecessary, condescending post-whoring.

 

I compliment JamesC for doing this so often! In reading many threads, if he doesn't directly reply, he will usually add a link to a post that helps answer the question. I have learned a lot about our cars because of his helpful nature.

 

i'm sure i have posted questions that have been asked before, but i have only done so because

i have searched for A,B,C & D and nothing has come up. or i have found A,B,C, & E. many of the same things but one minor thing that sets it apart.

and sometimes if i do find something, either no one replied, or they said "use the search"

with my searches i usually use 2 or 3 words, and even then i will get pages and pages of irrelevant stuff. now i almost always use the advanced search with the Titles only. now i have better luck with finding what i want, but sometimes i still have to flip through a few pages to get to what i want.

plus people get bugged when someone else hijacks a thread which compels one to start a new thread opposed to "hey i'm kind of having the same problem except i'm experiencing E, F, and G"

i'm sure i can speak for many people when they join they dont go through every feature with a comb. being eager to get their car running again their thought process probably goes something like this.

i'm 17
just got my license
just got a cool car
oh man it doesnt start.
lemme go online and look if theres a site.
*they see the forums*
hmm i guess tech/general engine
*posts* Help my car wont start.

i'm not supporting it, i'm just saying what possibly happens

 

A: Not much. Except maybe people that make posts about people who don't search when they have common questions.

Excuse me, I couldn't help myself.

 

I guess I’ll throw my hat in the ring.



I don’t mind having to say I did do a search because it not only shows that I put forth some effort, I also feel that I’ll receive more and better replies than I would otherwise. I feel that people are more likely to help those that help themselves and I think that is a good code to live by. Sometimes I’ll even ask for a link in case someone has one handy that I may have missed. That leaves less for them to do and gets me the information I need as well. I previously wrote a cheat sheet of sorts at my old job because the redundant questions not only interrupted my work, it was an incredible waste of time. I know that's not an issue here, but it still is rather inefficient.

If a subject keeps repeatedly coming up it says a couple of things.

• One is that the person asking the question either doesn’t know how, or is too lazy to search. I don’t feel that telling someone to do a search is necessarily a bad thing in itself because it helps people to be more self sufficient. (There are some that need to learn this actually.) What does make a difference is how this is suggested. It’s common for people in the service industry to become irritated due to the repetitive simple questions and that’s similar to what’s happening here.
  
  
• The second thing that it says is that there’s a need for certain information that’s not being met. This site has a ton of information and is a great resource, so that leads to; if they knew about (or how to) or even bothered to look in those areas or not, and also if the question is outside of that scope. Sometimes there are three or four of the same or similar questions floating around at the same time and it is surprising to see how they missed it. But at the same time I also notice that I commonly miss threads that are a couple of days old. So if they did a search were the other threads easy to find?

So why am I babbling on about all of this? I have a couple of ideas that I’m not sure if they’ve been addressed or not, but haven’t noticed anyone mentioning them. They may not all be workable or practical but may inspire more thought or ideas to help things run more smoothly.

When suggesting that someone do a search, remember that the way it’s suggested can have a huge impact on others and it doesn’t take much to change it around a little. Simply saying “Did a search provide any information?” or “Is there something more specific that a search didn’t provide?” not only offers the suggestion in a less-confrontational way it also asks something from the other person. This also helps to define the search further and also can avoid the situation where the person helping isn’t looking up information the OP already found. In addition, it may help to identify why the search didn’t pan out. Maybe a tag could be added or something else could be done to make it easier for the next person. I also feel that doing something is much better than avoiding the other person as it is helping the OP and also helps others learn more of what the OP is asking about. Also, it bumps the thread so that more people will stumble across it


IMO, when helping, the key is getting the information to them in the most convenient way.

Some ideas I had is to add tags to certain threads to help both the original searcher and those assisting them. This could be done after finding out what key words people are using to search. Another thing that can be done is to create folders in subscribed threads (inside of our personal control panels) to make them easier to look up as well. Ie. make a file with certain subjects that are just a few clicks away.

Also, having a link (sticky or webpage) explaining where to look for information and how to effectively perform a search specifically tailored for this website would also be helpful especially if it were updated as things changed over time. Links to commonly asked questions could also be posted there. Also, suggestions (for the OP) as to what to include in the title may also help. Something like this would be similar to other help threads such as posting images and such. This could be especially useful as it could be easily referred to by people initially responding to a question.

 

another thing I have noticed is people being chastised for bumping old threads..

I don't think you can have it both ways.. you tell at people, encouraging people to go find posts on a certain topic, but i they have questions about that topic, they get yelled at for posting on that thread.

 

It's those veteran members, who have repeatedly answered the question over years, for free, in their free time who have made the database full of the rich information to search.

I can't imagine a person getting sick of answering a question just for someone else to be too much of a lazy-ss to even scroll down the page for a possible answer. EG: Rust, body forum. Cooling fan, cooling forum.

TGO is made up of people donating their time, knowledge and information resources to help. I find it a slap in the face to those who have contributed over the years, to make this site what it is, to expect a spoonfed answer because you're to stupid or lazy to search for an answer.

If you don't have enough brains to do a little research to work on your car, you probably shouldn't be working on it anyways.

No one is here on their free time to babysit.

Also, some answers are carved in stone no matter how much time passes.
EG: What bulbs are in the tail lights ?....
Will an 84 fender fit my 89 ?....
What's the stock tire size ?...


This is ultra rare but, I 100% agree with Stephen on this subject.

 

Some things are just hard to search. Some people know just how to word the search. I have no idea why the heck people get so butt hurt about it. I posted like 500 times and logged hours of searching before I even noticed u can help your effort buy searching only titles. Did anyone mention that? Heck no. U type do a search after I did search for an hour and everyone that sees that just moves on and I get no answer. I just want to make a fist with a neck in it!

Lighten up on the do a search crap cause lets face it; every question has been gone over 100 times about a car that is 18-28 years old. If everyone did a search then the new posters would do what? Tell how our day went and how doing the dishes sucked?

Its nice to feel like a part of something and Not just a jerk. If posting to help someone makes u mad then dont do it. What is this site even for if not to help people and feel like u belong? When ur kid was learning how to **** in the big boy potty id u make them do a search?

 

No, because the child didn't have the previous knowledge to do such a thing.

You are suggesting to show a fully capable, adult person how to use the toilet.

Or, to treat a fully capable adult like a child you are trying to break from diapers and treat them like a 2yr old dumb-ss and babysit them.

 

No not really. Obviously, but since u mention it maybe. Not everyone is as smart as u r or wants to spend 2 hours looking for a specific answer they never find. I will be the first to admit that I have searched and came up empty on one subject then asked a totally different question that turned out to be a sticky. My point is don't be a dik. Thats not what this site is for. If u have anger problems or like to debate their is a website for that im sure. Point out the number of posted threads that can be searched rather then re posted. Then ask yourself why you should care?

 

Q: What's more annoying than people who don't search when they have common questions?

People who bitch about it all the time.

 

Here is what I find I search all the time and have gotten good at it but i'll search these simple question and about the first 15 threads I get or more have "Use the Search" as replys. Not really helpful to search when you just keep packing on 20 thread of "Use the Search" and then there is only one thread with the answer written like 10 years ago so it's like the last one. My belief "Use the Search" is used for to reason one, you don't know and two, you want to up your post counter.
I usually link old post to these questions so that the next person that searches will not find how stupid it is cause the mass of "Use the Search" replies.
You are your own undoing, they ask cause you said Use the Search on the last 20 threads.

 

Well yes, this can be annoying indeed! What we are witnessing today is a conflict of generations. Now before you get all huffy & decide to burn me at the stake, at least let me flesh this out a bit.

Us old timers did not have the luxury of "instant information". A huge portion of our life was spent "before Computers" and "before Internet". Amassing information called for research, and the application of perhaps hours to discover the knowledge that we required to work through our problems.

We had to work for our stuff.

The generation today does it differently, they have always had the computer & the internet. Time moves at a faster rate, and answers are required to be presented immediately upon demand.

I shake my head in disbelief when I find that some kids today do not know the difference between texting on a phone, and posting on a forum.

Some do not see the need to any longer utilize a period to denote the end of a sentence. I suppose it is a matter of time before the spaces betweenwordsareleftoutaswellbecausethissaveskeyboardstrokes.

Schools here no longer require the students to memorize the multiplication tables... that is what calculators are for, imagine that!

Knowledge is now embraced as knowing less!

 

What r u doing then big boy? Whats the whole point to this thread??? Lmao there is no winner here. I said all I needed to say after this and its unsubscribed. Thanks to the ones for trying to make a perhaps "lazy" person feel stupid. Theirs a difference. I know how to search better now so maybe this has done some people some good? NA. Working on a car needing help from a brother instead I get a cry baby lil sister. See, no winner. Moving on now.

 

Sometimes its not about being lazy or wanting "instant" info, with great sites likes this, you can get what is called "Information overload". What I mean by that is there is so much info here that when you search for something you get so much info, you don't even know where to begin. Yes the answer probably is out there but with so many mods, fabs and different repair styles its hard to find an answer that fits. If you do get a good page, you have to worry about hijacking, I've searched for info, found a few pages with it being hijacked halfway through and never got the answer I was looking for. I've posted on other sites where my topic was jacked and never got my answer and when bumped I was told to search even though my topic was 2 pages deep of other BS. All I ask, is when it comes down it, if a post is made, give the info either by link, your own experiences and find out why they might have asked, maybe they have a unique experience that requires different thought. Everyone reads and takes in info a different way and needs it explained in a different way so they understand. I'm a mechanic for the Army and was one for the Air Force and there have been times when I need it explained a different way. I enjoy giving info, cause 1, it shows support to what Im doing, 2 right or wrong I tried, 3 I can show that atleast partially that I know what Im doing and not being a prude about it. My Sergeant always told me he trained me to pass the "ball" onto and take his spot and I should train and pass the "ball" to the next soldier to take my job. I say this cause in the end, sooner or later "we" wont be around anymore and someone should be able to take our spot. Just pass the info along, cause if your time was honestly that important, why are you on the site reading posts and yet telling people to search.

 

Learn to spell first before you call me a cry baby little sister. Search for a dictionary, you need one BAD.

 

There is little positive to come from this thread at this recent rate. In addition, this issue is surely beyond ThirdGen.org. As can be seen, some understand the need for users to help themselves via the search tool and simply browsing our material.

Bottom line is, please do try to help yourself by utilizing the tools made available to you. The search feature is an invaluable tool that is provided for instant help in those times were someone might not be available to post an answer.

However, if there is true "chastising", then it probably should be reported so that staff can review and take any appropriate action.

Thanks.