Originally Posted by RyanJB

I've been running EQ Lightning 180cc Vortec heads for the last few months and I've had nothing but problems related to these heads and a couple thousand in machine work later, I still have problems, so the heads are going. . Compression with these 64cc heads was around 10.6:1.
Any input is appreciated

Originally Posted by midias

What problems did you have?.

Originally Posted by whatever84

I'm using the Summit racing aluminium 200cc heads that are Brodix IK200's with the Summit name on them and have had great luck with them. Sum-162111 they are $1050.00.


Mark.

Originally Posted by midias

What problems did you have?

My Patriot 185cc heads have been great.

Originally Posted by skinny z

10.6:1 with iron heads? You'd have to have a massive cam to keep that from detonating itself to pieces. Or your 10.6:1 isn't accurate. I've run the EQ Lighting on a 355.
Besides that, I'm also curious as what trouble you had. Valve guides by chance?

Originally Posted by InfernalVortex

Have Brodix fixed their valve guide wear issues yet? I know that was a concern a few years ago but I haven't heard much about it lately. Seems like with that off the table those Brodix heads and the Pro-Filers are among the best options available.



If you've burned through all your cash... you MIIIIGHT want to look into those Assault Racing heads:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...00cc-64cc.html

They might be a little large for your displacement and cam, but they would probably still be quick, and they WILL handle 10.6:1 compression since they're aluminum (or at least that's accepted theory these days). You'll need to spend $200-$300 in quality hardware to install on them, but they apparently work best with Vortec intakes according to that thread, which is why I mention them. THat would, to me, make them a very attractive option if you've already got a vortec-centric build. The cost of a new intake being $200-$300 isnt really that high, but if you dont need to, dont bother, you know? They're definitely gonig to be on the take a risk side of things, which I wouldn't blame you for wanting to get out of.

AFR makes Vortec pattern heads and so does RHS, but AFR's are pretty pricy, and RHS only makes Iron Vortecs which I'd be leary of with 10.6:1 compression and taht cam, which is not big enough to make 10.6:1 work with iron heads. GMPP Phase wahtever bowtie Vortec heads flow a ltitle better but you lose a lot of the advantages of regular Vortecs when you go to them, they're pretty much just regular aftermarket heads that need a fancy intake.

So... as much as i hate to say it, I realistically see your options as 1. Vortec AFR's and 2. Assault Racing. You might be better off selling the vortec stealth ram and getting a regular pattern stealth ram and pairing with with some profilers (~$1000) or Summit/Brodix heads which are a little bit more than Profilers.

Originally Posted by RyanJB

Valve guide wear, improper rocker stud placement, exhaust port shape.



See above, Machine shop told me after I dropped a valve that the rocker studs were too high which caused my rockers to wear differently which lead to me dropping two valves and ruining all my exhaust valves because they were rubbing the guides. Now that the machine shop fixed that my wear pattern still isn't wear I'd like it (machine shop said it was safe but the shop that assembled it last time said the same thing before it dropped a valve) and my pushrods are rubbing in the pushrod holes. So rather than dump another few hundred dollars (I'm basically 2000 in them already) into these heads that are basically just ported factory heads that are cut for bigger springs, I'm going to upgrade to something better, and preferably aluminum...



I'm glad you understand my problem with buying the assault racing heads. I'm only a few hundred short of the $1600 for AFRs, so getting the AFR vortecs is a very plausible option. But I would like to avoid dumping basically another $2000 into this mild 350 build, which is why I'm trying to check all my options.

I'm sure I could find a standard Vortec base for ~$300 or so, but if I spend $300 on a new manifold and $1000 on heads I'm only a couple hundred away from buying the AFR vortecs which would eliminate the need to change intake manifolds anyway.

I haven't really heard much about the Profilers but I've seen them come up a few times.

And Promaxxx? is what Patriot changed their name to?

Also, in regards to compression, I've always heard people say I shouldn't be able to run such high compression on 89 octane gas but I did it with this rebuild and the build before and the heads have come off and plugs have been pulled and both times there were no signs of predetonation. The compression ratio came from my math when collecting parts and also two different machine shop's math while assembling. It doesn't seem strange to me, my dad's 73 Z28 has a 360 with less cam then I do and he runs around 11.5:1 on 93 octane with no ping.

Originally Posted by InfernalVortex

Well quench distance being spot on helps and vortec heads in particular are remarkably detonation resistant. But I think skinny z hit the compression wall on his vortec build and I think it was a little below where you're at AND he has a bigger cam.

Going AFR's is a lot of money, but I doubt you'll ever regret it. Those are top line heads and should perform very, very well.

Originally Posted by RyanJB

Valve guide wear, improper rocker stud placement, ...Machine shop told me after I dropped a valve that the rocker studs were too high which caused my rockers to wear differently which lead to me dropping two valves and ruining all my exhaust valves because they were rubbing the guides.

.

Originally Posted by skinny z

It appears that the valve train geometry and valve tip contact patch was never confirmed.

What I think might be the case here is not so much the heads themselves but rather how they were set up. My bet is that the valve train geometry was off enough to wipe out the guides. In addition to the that, the EQ castings have a 7/16ths pushrod hole. Running that with guide plates is likely to cause a binding issue. This is exactly my experience with these castings and it sounds similar to what you've gone through. I neglected to recheck the contact patch on the valve tip when I swapped short blocks (same heads and cam) and the difference in block height was enough to throw off the geometry considerably. Since then , I've had the push rod hole enlarged to 1/2" and use adjustable guide plates to keep the tip centered (left to right). Lots of mesurements determined the correct push rod to use.

When you move up to your new heads (whatever you decide) you might want to revisit the pushrod length issue again as it's likely to change with different heads. New heads are bound to give you the same wear problems unless you check this.

Originally Posted by skinny z

10.6:1 with iron heads? You'd have to have a massive cam to keep that from detonating itself to pieces. Or your 10.6:1 isn't accurate. I've run the EQ Lighting on a 355.
Besides that, I'm also curious as what trouble you had. Valve guides by chance?

Originally Posted by Fast355

My 383 was 10.5:1 and only had a 208/214 duration cam in it. ZERO knock on 93 octane and that was running 30-32° of timing while moving over 12,000 lbs down the road.

Originally Posted by skinny z

Any numbers?
Head cc and material.
Piston dish/dome.
Cam specs. Advertised duration, ICL andf LSA.
Rod length.
Timing curve.
Compression test perhaps?
If you can, post them at this thread.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ta-wanted.html

Originally Posted by Fast355

The heads are 906 vortecs, cast iron, with 2.05/1.60 valves that had been milled slightly for flatness and had the chamber sweeped for the larger intake valves. CC'd right at 68cc

The pistons were 12cc D-dished KBs that ended up .005" in the hole on a decked block

Head Gasket was a .038" compressed, 4.100" bore

I was a little off on the cam, its been a few years.

Cam was 260/264* @ .008, 208/212 @ .050, .480/.507" lift w 1.6:1 rockers, 114* LSA, 110* ICL

5.7" rods

Cranking compression is 210 PSI, Pat Kelley DCR Calculator was around 8.8:1 dynamic.

At WOT it runs 0* to 1,000 rpm, 20* by 2,400, 28* at 3,600, back to 25* at 4,000 and slowly, but steadily climbs back to 30* @ 6,000. Coolant temps from 140*F to 170*F added 2* of timing, coolant temps over 180*F removed approximately 1* for every 10*F. There was also IAT based spark retard that started at 120*F and had 6* retard by 160*F.

On E85 this engine liked the same 30* advance up top, but wanted 8-10* more below 2,000 rpm and a smooth timing ramp up to 30* at 4,000 and hold to 6,000.

Always ran on 93 octane or E85, with a 170*F thermostat and an overkill cooling system. It was a torque monster, put down 380RWHP and 420 RWTQ through a stock stalled 700r4, heavy 2 piece steel driveshaft with carrier bearing, and GM 9.5" corporate 14-bolt rear.

Cool thing about running this setup on E85 is the SLP intake runners would stay cool to the touch year round!

Originally Posted by Fast355

The heads are 906 vortecs, cast iron, with 2.05/1.60 valves that had been milled slightly for flatness and had the chamber sweeped for the larger intake valves. CC'd right at 68cc

The pistons were 12cc D-dished KBs that ended up .005" in the hole on a decked block

Head Gasket was a .038" compressed, 4.100" bore

I was a little off on the cam, its been a few years.

Cam was 260/264* @ .008, 208/212 @ .050, .480/.507" lift w 1.6:1 rockers, 114* LSA, 110* ICL

5.7" rods

Cranking compression is 210 PSI, Pat Kelley DCR Calculator was around 8.8:1 dynamic.

At WOT it runs 0* to 1,000 rpm, 20* by 2,400, 28* at 3,600, back to 25* at 4,000 and slowly, but steadily climbs back to 30* @ 6,000. Coolant temps from 140*F to 170*F added 2* of timing, coolant temps over 180*F removed approximately 1* for every 10*F. There was also IAT based spark retard that started at 120*F and had 6* retard by 160*F.

On E85 this engine liked the same 30* advance up top, but wanted 8-10* more below 2,000 rpm and a smooth timing ramp up to 30* at 4,000 and hold to 6,000.

Always ran on 93 octane or E85, with a 170*F thermostat and an overkill cooling system. It was a torque monster, put down 380RWHP and 420 RWTQ through a stock stalled 700r4, heavy 2 piece steel driveshaft with carrier bearing, and GM 9.5" corporate 14-bolt rear.

Cool thing about running this setup on E85 is the SLP intake runners would stay cool to the touch year round!

Originally Posted by conlinj

I have a 355 with the XFI280 and the AFR 912 (vortec) heads. It's been good to me so far, very street-able still, performs well with good power across the board. Still running a MAF too...

Originally Posted by 1gary

Ryan.Sorry to heard all the problems you been through.Thank you for posting them.It has been a cross I have been carrying sometimes seems like all on my own about the lower dollar castings.The after purchase story to make it work and costs related to that is often overlooked and can be expensive as you have stated.
Well I just wanted to credit you for this thread and the help it hopefully will provide readers to cross off their shopping list the brand name EQ.

Originally Posted by skinny z

It's my understanding that the EQ Lightning is ( or was a few years ago at any rate) an excellent casting.
I think from what's been provided here information-wise, that the OP had a problem with valvetrain geometry and this is what has wiped out the guides and caused the other problems. No casting, good or poor, can make up for a poor set-up.
Am I off the mark here?

Originally Posted by RyanJB

There is a problem with the casting of the rocker stud bosses which is causing every rocker to sit too high which is preventing the rocker from centering over the valve.

Originally Posted by skinny z

Are you saying that the flat that's milled on the stud boss to provide a base for a screw-in stud and guide plates is too high?

Originally Posted by RyanJB

Yes

Originally Posted by skinny z

There are bound to be variences in even the best castings (and EQs rep was pretty good I thought. Much like RHS) however any readily available pushrod would allow proper geometry to be achieved. You said yourself you didn't like the look of the pattern and that's ultimately what killed the guides.
However that said, when you move on to your new heads, be absolutely sure you spot on with your measurements. I don't think it's a good idea to trust the same shop to your new heads.

Originally Posted by RyanJB

The wear pattern has been verified again since the engine has been assembled and it's still not correct. The pushrod length was verified with a pushrod checking tool and the current rods are what the tool said was the correct length. The pattern was better with 1.5 rockers however.

Originally Posted by RyanJB

The wear pattern has been verified again since the engine has been assembled and it's still not correct.

Originally Posted by conlinj

I have a 355 with the XFI280 and the AFR 912 (vortec) heads. It's been good to me so far, very street-able still, performs well with good power across the board. Still running a MAF too...

Originally Posted by conlinj

So far it's about a half second, intake was also worked on to match the heads, and the rear went from 3.27 to 3.73s. The car pulls a lot harder up top, only going through the traps at 5500rpms. Trans let go after the second pass though and i parked it. We will see how it goes this summer.

-Jim