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So, we all know the benefits of coating mid tube headers. Longer life, keep them pretty, lower under hood temps. But I can't find much on stainless. They obviously won't corrode like mild steel and from what I understand they also insulate better like a ceramic coating would. So is there any benefit to coating them?
Last edited by Ozz1967; 03-26-2017 at 10:30 AM.
Reason: Spelling
Stainless is already a far poorer conductor of heat than regular mild steel - see http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/th...ity-d_429.html - and thereby makes headers work MUCH better all by itself. The coating adds even more insulation. Rather than underhood temps reaching 200° higher than with exhaust manifolds the way uncoated mild steel headers do, the temps will stay about the same. Plus, since headers work better the more heat they retain in the exhaust, coating them actually helps the motor make more power.
Plus, stainless isn't "stainless" to begin with, and especially not at 800° or whatever. Rather, it still oxidizes, but its oxidation is SELF-PROTECTIVE, because it isn't porous and flaky like rust. Thus once a layer develops, the metal underneath stays unaffected. Uncoated stainless will corrode to a kind of chocolate color; coating stays the color it starts out as, subject to contamination of course.
Stainless is already a far poorer conductor of heat than regular mild steel - see http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/th...ity-d_429.html - and thereby makes headers work MUCH better all by itself. The coating adds even more insulation. Rather than underhood temps reaching 200° higher than with exhaust manifolds the way uncoated mild steel headers do, the temps will stay about the same. Plus, since headers work better the more heat they retain in the exhaust, coating them actually helps the motor make more power.
Plus, stainless isn't "stainless" to begin with, and especially not at 800° or whatever. Rather, it still oxidizes, but its oxidation is SELF-PROTECTIVE, because it isn't porous and flaky like rust. Thus once a layer develops, the metal underneath stays unaffected. Uncoated stainless will corrode to a kind of chocolate color; coating stays the color it starts out as, subject to contamination of course.
so what are your thoughts on coating the inside? Does it need to be done? Especially considering Stainless Steel? Some companies say they can. Some say they can't/won't, and some say they'll coat in as far as they can reach
The coating is sprayed on then baked. Whether they can coat the insides at all, and if so how much, depends on their spray apparatus.
I always have mine done inside as much as possible, which is at least, as far in there as I can see. Can't see any reason not to, for sure. I usually use Jet-Hot. I generally get their "silver" color but that's just personal preference of course. Whether any other services are "better" or not I couldn't say, been using those guys for at least 25 yrs now I guess.
So, we all know the benefits of coating mid tube headers. Longer life, keep them pretty, lower under hood temps. But I can't find much on stainless. They obviously won't corrode like mild steel and from what I understand they also insulate better like a ceramic coating would. So is there any benefit to coating them?
The benefits of ceramic coating stainless steel headers are pretty much the same as those for ceramic coating mild steel headers with the exception of two, corrosion and heat. You want to coat mild steel headers because you want to prevent them from rusting in the very near future and you also want to reduce under hood heat.
Stainless headers which are typically made from either 409 or 304 SS are not going to rust away like mild steel headers will, but they will oxidize fairly quickly (see below). Depending on the temperatures that the headers are exposed to the oxidation will range from a mild gold / orange to a purple / black. Although most people ceramic coat their headers for looks, the MOST important reason to ceramic coat your stainless headers is to reduce radiated heat. When stainless headers get hot, they hold a LOT of heat at the surface of the header which creates MUCH more radiated heat under hood. The reason for this is that he SS is much denser than the comparable mild steel it replaced.
Ask anyone that has replaced a set of mild steel headers with a newer set of SS headers and they will confirm that they now have a sauna under hood. Ceramic coating both mild steel and stainless steel headers will reduce the heat transfer through the substrate and dissipate heat from its surface much faster than the raw substrate alone.....
Fully Polished 304SS headers from a street driven F430 Ferrari
New 409SS headers heated to 850F
Street driven 409SS headers
The coating is sprayed on then baked. Whether they can coat the insides at all, and if so how much, depends on their spray apparatus.
I always have mine done inside as much as possible, which is at least, as far in there as I can see. Can't see any reason not to, for sure. I usually use Jet-Hot. I generally get their "silver" color but that's just personal preference of course. Whether any other services are "better" or not I couldn't say, been using those guys for at least 25 yrs now I guess.
I also get the Y-pipe coated.
I'm looking at several exhaust options for my LS swap and the only one that comes un-coated are a set of Stainless long tubes which is what prompted the question.
So, we all know the benefits of coating mid tube headers. Longer life, keep them pretty, lower under hood temps. But I can't find much on stainless. They obviously won't corrode like mild steel and from what I understand they also insulate better like a ceramic coating would. So is there any benefit to coating them?
The benefits for ceramic coating stainless steel headers are pretty much the same as those for mild steel with the exception of two, corrosion and heat. You want to coat mild steel headers because you want to prevent them from rusting in the very near future and you also want to reduce under hood heat.
Stainless headers which are typically made from either 409 or 304 SS are not going to rust away like mild steel headers will, but they will oxidize fairly quickly. Depending on the temperatures that the headers are exposed to the oxidation will range from a mild gold / orange to a purple / black. Although most people ceramic coat their headers for looks, the MOST important reason to ceramic coat your stainless headers is to reduce radiated heat. When stainless headers get hot, they hold a LOT of heat at the surface of the header which creates MUCH more radiated heat under hood. The reason for this is that he SS is much denser than the comparable mild steel it replaced.
Ask anyone that has replaced a set of mild steel headers with a newer set of SS headers and they will confirm that they now have a sauna under hood. Ceramic coating both mild steel and stainless steel headers will reduce the heat transfer through the substrate and dissipate heat from its surface much faster than the raw substrate alone.....
The benefits for ceramic coating stainless steel headers are pretty much the same as those for mild steel with the exception of two, corrosion and heat. You want to coat mild steel headers because you want to prevent them from rusting in the very near future and you also want to reduce under hood heat.
Stainless headers which are typically made from either 409 or 304 SS are not going to rust away like mild steel headers will, but they will oxidize fairly quickly. Depending on the temperatures that the headers are exposed to the oxidation will range from a mild gold / orange to a purple / black. Although most people ceramic coat their headers for looks, the MOST important reason to ceramic coat your stainless headers is to reduce radiated heat. When stainless headers get hot, they hold a LOT of heat at the surface of the header which creates MUCH more radiated heat under hood. The reason for this is that he SS is much denser than the comparable mild steel it replaced.
Ask anyone that has replaced a set of mild steel headers with a newer set of SS headers and they will confirm that they now have a sauna under hood. Ceramic coating both mild steel and stainless steel headers will reduce the heat transfer through the substrate and dissipate heat from its surface much faster than the raw substrate alone.....
The benefits for ceramic coating stainless steel headers are pretty much the same as those for mild steel with the exception of two, corrosion and heat. You want to coat mild steel headers because you want to prevent them from rusting in the very near future and you also want to reduce under hood heat.
Stainless headers which are typically made from either 409 or 304 SS are not going to rust away like mild steel headers will, but they will oxidize fairly quickly. Depending on the temperatures that the headers are exposed to the oxidation will range from a mild gold / orange to a purple / black. Although most people ceramic coat their headers for looks, the MOST important reason to ceramic coat your stainless headers is to reduce radiated heat. When stainless headers get hot, they hold a LOT of heat at the surface of the header which creates MUCH more radiated heat under hood. The reason for this is that he SS is much denser than the comparable mild steel it replaced.
Ask anyone that has replaced a set of mild steel headers with a newer set of SS headers and they will confirm that they now have a sauna under hood. Ceramic coating both mild steel and stainless steel headers will reduce the heat transfer through the substrate and dissipate heat from its surface much faster than the raw substrate alone.....
The benefits for ceramic coating stainless steel headers are pretty much the same as those for mild steel with the exception of two, corrosion and heat. You want to coat mild steel headers because you want to prevent them from rusting in the very near future and you also want to reduce under hood heat.
The benefits for ceramic coating stainless steel headers are pretty much the same as those for mild steel with the exception of two, corrosion and heat. You want to coat mild steel headers because you want to prevent them from rusting in the very near future and you also want to reduce under hood heat.
Stainless headers which are typically made from either 409 or 304 SS are not going to rust away like mild steel headers will, but they will oxidize fairly quickly. Depending on the temperatures that the headers are exposed to the oxidation will range from a mild gold / orange to a purple / black. Although most people ceramic coat their headers for looks, the MOST important reason to ceramic coat your stainless headers is to reduce radiated heat. When stainless headers get hot, they hold a LOT of heat at the surface of the header which creates MUCH more radiated heat under hood. The reason for this is that he SS is much denser than the comparable mild steel it replaced.
[QUOTE=CCPcoatings;6122953]As to OZZ1967's original question:
Stainless headers which are typically made from either 409 or 304 SS are not going to rust away like mild steel headers will, but they will oxidize fairly quickly. Depending on the temperatures that the headers are exposed to the oxidation will range from a mild gold / orange to a purple / black. Although most people ceramic coat their headers for looks, the MOST important reason to ceramic coat your stainless headers is to reduce radiated heat. When stainless headers get hot, they hold a LOT of heat at the surface of the header which creates MUCH more radiated heat under hood. The reason for this is that he SS is much denser than the comparable mild steel it replaced.
[QUOTE=CCPcoatings;6122955][QUOTE=CCPcoatings;6122953]As to OZZ1967's original question:
Ask anyone that has replaced a set of mild steel headers with a newer set of SS headers and they will confirm that they now have a sauna under hood. Ceramic coating both mild steel and stainless steel headers will reduce the heat transfer through the substrate and dissipate heat from its surface much faster than the raw substrate alone.....
If they're shorty / mid-length headers, you don't want them done in polished ceramic as they will not hold up to the heat.
I don't care about shiny. So then, you are saying to go with the dull coating?
That's fine with me, it's the under hood heat I want reduced.
Also the driver's side pipe passes right under the oil pan. I don't like
cooking my oil. I was going to wrap the y-pipe in this area, but I read
that you don't wrap SS exhaust - it will burn out.
I see you are CCP Coatings. Tell me more. PM me if you wish.
Last edited by NoEmissions84TA; 03-27-2017 at 11:51 PM.
I don't care about shiny. So then, you are saying to go with the dull coating?
That's fine with me, it's the under hood heat I want reduced.
If you're using a short header you'll want a high temp ceramic which is usually rated in the 1800F - 2000F range and has a satin finish. Reason being, if you look at most full length header applications with polished ceramic you'll notice that the first 8-12+ inches of primaries have dulled out. They will dull "slightly" if fuel and timing are perfect and much worse if they are not. In a shorty application, you don't have enough tube to dissipate the heat as in a full length set so the whole header will typically turn.
I don't care about shiny. So then, you are saying to go with the dull coating?
That's fine with me, it's the under hood heat I want reduced.
Also the driver's side pipe passes right under the oil pan. I don't like
cooking my oil. I was going to wrap the y-pipe in this area, but I read
that you don't wrap SS exhaust - it will burn out.
I see you are CCP Coatings. Tell me more. PM me if you wish.
In 15+ years of working with headers and turbo exhaust ranging from 50hp - 4000hp+, I have never seen a "burned out" SS pipe. For that matter I've never seen a mild steel failure either, so I think someone is confused.
Occasionally, folks will dissuade you from wrapping certain SS or mild steel pipes for fear of cracking. More often than not, cracking is the result of poor manufacturing, i.e. too thin material for the application, poor welds, or structural flex as in supporting other components.
Well, I can tell you know what you are talking about.
I just finished requesting a quote.
these shorty headers I had done by HPC, a company local to me when I lived in Utah. They came highly recommended. These were coated and installed in 2008. I drove sparingly until 2010 when I brought her to England with me. There it was three years of daily driving and three winters as well as one part winter and they still look very good I think except for a little surface rust near the collector.
so what is the cost on a set of long tube headers with a off road y-pipe?
Can't fit long tubes around an Auto without losing 3" of ground clearance as your Y pipe must go under the trans cross member.
BMR sells a 7000r4 cross member that will give a little more room to help wit h this issue.
As for headers themselves, you're looking at $500 or so for the headers and another $200 for the y-pipe. Or run true duals which is a different cost.
For a stainless header and y-pipe you're looking at $1000 just for headers. Ceramic coading adds another $250-300 to the price.
Dyno Don Shorties or Hooker 2055 shorties both come with a Y-pipe. If you get them ceramic coated the price is around $800. Un-coated they're like $550 for the set. The upside of these is they flow better than stock manifolds and with a good 3" catback you will free up 10-25hp on your motor.
i have headman shorties with y-pipe and they are coated by jet hot was thinking long tube stainless didn't know they coated stainless and I'm in Indiana know cats in my ride.
They'll coat ANYTHING that won't melt in the curing process. I think even carburetors - made outta the cheeeeeeeeeepest thing that won't dissolve in gasoline - will clear that bar. Might warp, in which case it's YOUR problem not theirs, but won't melt.
http://www.spohn.net/productimages/1...Firebird-5.jpg
I was thinking about using these anyone had any luck with this setup from spohn? it doesn't look like there will be a ground clearance issue, and from what they say ill have no issues but of coarse they want to make the sale.
what steps are you guys taking to coat stainless steel headers, ive been doing ceramic coatings for a while now and the coating always starts flakes off of the stainless within a couple days, most of it stays on tho. from what i've gathered its because of the smooth surface that stainless has, where as blasted steel headers give a rough texture for the coating to stick to.
the picture i attached is 2 days after curing and install, maybe about 3 hours of engine run time on them.
what steps are you guys taking to coat stainless steel headers, ive been doing ceramic coatings for a while now and the coating always starts flakes off of the stainless within a couple days, most of it stays on tho. from what i've gathered its because of the smooth surface that stainless has, where as blasted steel headers give a rough texture for the coating to stick to.
the picture i attached is 2 days after curing and install, maybe about 3 hours of engine run time on them.
what steps are you guys taking to coat stainless steel headers, ive been doing ceramic coatings for a while now and the coating always starts flakes off of the stainless within a couple days, most of it stays on tho. from what i've gathered its because of the smooth surface that stainless has, where as blasted steel headers give a rough texture for the coating to stick to.
the picture i attached is 2 days after curing and install, maybe about 3 hours of engine run time on them.
Was your engine already broken in (not the 1st run)?
what steps are you guys taking to coat stainless steel headers, ive been doing ceramic coatings for a while now and the coating always starts flakes off of the stainless within a couple days, most of it stays on tho. from what i've gathered its because of the smooth surface that stainless has, where as blasted steel headers give a rough texture for the coating to stick to.
the picture i attached is 2 days after curing and install, maybe about 3 hours of engine run time on them.
So could you sandblast the stainless part like they do the regular steel to rough up the texture and allow the coating to bond to the surface better?
its happened on multiple occasions, all engines were broken in already.
you can sandblast stainless steel, but it will still have a smooth surface, unless there is some kind of media that im not aware that would work. i typically use 70 grit black aluminum oxide for regular steel.
03-26-2017, 10:29 AM
i have headman shorties with y-pipe and they are coated by jet hot
was thinking long tube stainless didn't know they coated stainless
and I'm in Indiana know cats in my ride. 
I think even carburetors - made outta the cheeeeeeeeeepest thing that won't dissolve in gasoline - will clear that bar. Might warp, in which case it's YOUR problem not theirs, but won't melt. 
