Well I should probably introduce myself. The name is Jon and recently I have aquirred myself an 84 camaro z28. I had for years owned a 73 roadrunner, however to put myself through college I sold it and was stuck driving a dodge neon. After getting into a collision with the driver neon and it being totalled out I realized I missed a car that actually had some power behind it. I took my insurance check and started out on a search for a budget muscle car that would allow my poor college self some get up and go. I pretty much figured it was going to be either a 5.0 stang or some itineration of a camaro. Not having alot of money and looking for something close to home I started scouring the local ads. I happened to pick up a new edition a few weeks ago and saw a simple ad "1984 Camaro, Edelbrock parts, runs $1100." I figured why not and went and looked. The car was very straight, though it had been repainted, and it ran though it sounded like it had a collapsed lifter. It was a five speed and the interior was in fairly good shape, just what I was looking for. I looked it over and found it had edelbrock shorty headers, performer intake, flowmaster cat back, and a stock rear with rear discs (swap?). I said what the hell and drove it home bad lifter and all $1100 later. It did just fine. I did my research to find out it was an L69 with the five speed which seems pretty rare for this year. Anyway to make an already long story shorter I proceeded to try and drive it to my buddies house to work on it in his garage, as my place lacks one. Well about three blocks from his house I heard the motor start to ping, I went to shut it off, however I didn't catch it fast enough, it spit TWO rods out the side of the pan. I wasn't particularly upset as I new it had issues and you tend to get what you pay for. So here it sits back at the house with a broken motor. Now I only need to figure out what I want to do with it. I was thinking maybe a 383. And if you read all of the above, I am impressed.

- Jon

P.S. Here are some pics of the beast.

 

I wouldn't bother with a 383. It will cost a lot more to build than a 350 which has plenty of potential. We have guys in the club who are pulling 325 hp or better at the rear wheels on our recent dyno test, and they are right near 400 lb ft or torque. One of the guys saw 370 hp at the wheels and 403 ft lb torque on a built 350.

 

Congrats on your purchase and welcome to the group!

You'll want to consider a new transmission too, as those older T5's arent as strong as the 88-92 models. And you'll want to dump those Edelcrock headers some time, as they're too small to support the power of a larger engine.

How else can we spend your money for you?

 

Congrats on your new ride. Sorry it blew up though.
350 short blocks are going for under $800 these days and that could get you back on the road quickly however I'll have to disagree with Russ on the displacement.

Go with as big of a motor as you can handle. By handle I mean fix, tune, Smog.

There is no replacement for displacement. I say go with a 427 LS7, or a 454 SB from world products.

All V8's have potential but the larger V8's have larger potential.

If you like having a performance car then you won't regret a big motor.

 

If you are replacing the motor, just get a news trans. I wanted to swap in a manual after my motor swap, but less than a week after getting the motor, destroyed the old tranny. be smart and jsut do both at the same time. me .02

 

A new 427cid LS7 block with all the fixin's is gonna run you some BIG bucks. Better get the Capital One card ready for that one.
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A 454cid smallblock could work, but you better have a special "smog" tune dialed in during smog time. Also, your fuel consumption is going to be alot worse with a big 'ole honkin' carb'ed 454 than a carb'ed 350. The 400 SBC would be a better idea if you're on somewhat of a budget. Unfortunately, those are hard to find these days (at the yards at least) and the siamesed cylinder design isn't a strong point for a high performance engine block. I'm assuming you are on somewhat of a budget because your Camaro is gonna need $$$$ for interior/paint/body work.

There may be no replacement for displacement. However, there's something almost as good.....FORCED INDUCTION!!! Just ask any TTA or Grand Nation/GNX enthusiast.

I agree with the others in this thread, go with a 350. 350's are a dime a dozen and you can make (almost) the same kind of power as a 383 stroker.

 

The other thing to remember about building an engine is cost. How much do you want to spend? You can build a World Products Motown to 454 c.i. in a small block, but it will cost mega bucks, and the engine isn't the end of it. If you make too much power, you can't use even a World Class t-5 or 700r4, you'll need to spend $$$ for a stronger transmission. Now after you spend the money for the stronger transmission, you need something stronger for the rear end. If you have a 9 bolt, it will be much stronger than a 10 bolt, but if you make too much power, you will need to go to a Curry or Moser 12 bolt. You can easily spend $10,000.00 for an engine and then find your self having to spend $2,000.00+ for a trans and another $2,000.00 for a rear end. I think your least expensive choice is to build a 350 smog motor for it. A 350 will give you adequate power with descent fuel economy and excellent reliability.

 

hey jon, i'm in bakersfield also. i have an excellent 305 tpi motor in an 89 RS camaro. it has 53,000 miles on it and you can have it for 200.00 if you come and pull it. give me a call at
(661)588-9036 if interested. i also have several auto transmissions.

 

Yeah, I have been thinking for awhile and I am definitely dropping the 383 setup and just doing a 350 rebuild. I already picked up a good roller block and am just gonna throw a set of keith blacks in the hole, get a slightly better cam, I already have long tubes that I bought last week and my buddy had a set of torker SR's for a 350 and performer rpm intake, I figure I slap that all together and get in the low 300hp range and have a decent driver. I had been thinking of going way bigger, but I don't feel like having to replace a bunch of stuff and compromise the car by overdoing it because I am afraid it is going to come apart on me. And like was stated above I still need money for the interior and paint.

-Jon

 

Well it has been five long months and here is the result. I worked all day on this but here is the motor in mock up stage. The bottom end got finished however the top end needs a few more pieces before it too is done. Looks pretty damn good to me.

9am and this is what I started with.


Crank installed after a little bit of work.


the top end put on.


Still needs a timing cover which I ordered tonight.


Here is the mocked up result. I call it the heart of darkness.


Now all I need is to wait for the final parts. Install the cam and rocker arms and drop it in. Still a ways to go. But better than nothing.
-SmallTires

 

Looks real good
Might want to do a little checking on that pan tho for an F-body frame, it will be tight.

 

I take it this isnt a street engine...

 

Thanks Dyno Don. Hmmm, never really put alot of thought into that. When I did order the pan I did inquire as to weather it would fit in an f-body. The general response was yes. Though I guess I will find out in a few weeks when it gets dropped in.
----------

If it's run on the street then it's a street engine.
This is my daily driver motor and mild by most standards.

 

Lots of luck taking it to the Test Only

 

Save your old carb for smog tests, it is the only carb that will be legal. Regarding the oil pan fitting an f-body, did you ask if it would fit an f-body or a thirdgen f-body? There is a lot more room under the hood of a first or second gen f-body and the engines weren't set back as far for better weight distribution like third and fourth gens.

 

As Lang said, you wont pass the smog check with that intake manifold and carburator. That's why I said what I said.

 

I happen to own a completely stock 84HO so if you want to know where things go when you have to change everything back, you can take some pictures for reference.

 

Well after a seven month hiatus from the streets with the car tonight begins the tear down. Tomorrow morning the new motor goes in. Any pieces of advice I should consider when ripping one out of a third gen? Wish me luck guys and I will post picsw tomorrow.

 

Hey I see there is no EGR ports on those heads. That might hurt you when it's time to smog.

 

Well I literally ripped out all the smog anyway so that was not anything to worry about. They are a late 80's gm performance head without the exhaust crossover. Thankfully I know some people that can get me through stuff for greasing there palms. As far as the car goes, the new motor had some hitches. The milodon pan infact did not work. So off it went and a new gm replacement pan came in. I also went crazy with my wallet and bought just about EVERYTHING spohn has to offer minus there new k-members and tubular a-arms. So I have set aside a few days early next month to reassemble the beast and get it running. I am just growing impatient with this thing.

 

That sounds very good, Have any updated pics?

 

Unfortunately not right now. unless you want to look at a roller, a motor sitting on an engine stand still, and a bunch of spohn stuff layin on my living room floor. Though I can say one thing I will be doing alot of product reviews here shortly when I install them all. A word of advice though if you plan on buying alot and assembling the car all at once: having a giant cervinis cowl hood for three months in your living room tends to make your roomate unhappy.

 

Lol got pics of that?

 

Well here is some quick pics before work. The car is still in a roller state though I will be rebuilding the front suspension prior to dropping the motor in. I hate it being exposed outside as I have two huge trees in front of the house and I constantly am picking leaves off of it. Though that will be fixed breifly in about two weeks.




Heres the finished motor minus the new pan which I had to place on it yesterday. Also a random picture from the motor build in July.




And finally some of the spohn stuff that came in. The LCAs came to me in early May so I installed them. However I decided to lca relocation brackets so they are on the car and I didn't take pics of the brackets because, well quite frankly, because they aren't bling. The torque arm and new crossmember are really f*ckin beefy, built like a tank. I got the two driveshaft safety loop setup. The wonder bar is of excellent quality as well as the new adjustable panhard with rod end. I went with all rod end stuff because I am a sucker for bells and whistle stuff. Plus is gives the suspension a little more flexibility and I figure that can't hurt. I have the front end rebuild kit and all the poly bushings as well as new konis to go on the car however I was short on time to take pics and post.

 

Lastly here is the cervinis hood I purchased. Beautiful is all I can say. The best fiberglass hood I have ever seen and I can see why they want as much as they do for it. I drug it out of the house to take pics, a feat in itself. This thing is HEAVY. You may save a few pounds but little if any from the stock hood. However fit and finish is second to none. Sorry if the pics came out kinda whacked but I was trying to take pics and hold the hood so funky angles occured. The rear screens are perfect and the fact it came with hardware and already predrilled was definitely a plus. If you have the cash get it.






Thats about it for now. If there are any more pics or questions you have about any of this stuff I will gladly answr them for you. And away to work I go!

 

That just makes it heavy. I see Spohn has changed his torque arm design yet again.

 

That looks like a sick engine! how much did it cost you to build it?

 

Thanks man. Realistically with starting with nothing but a roller short block in need of a trbuild with quality parts and labor costs in machining and assembly I probably have close to $3500 in it. Take in mind this is new EVERYTHING and all of it was brand name, this includes carb and ignition. Sure I could have skimped on some stuff but I wanted it done right the first time. The only thing used on the motor was the heads which were a gm performance 2.02 heads, but I needed them machined, cleaned, new springs, new valves. So those are about as new in terms of hardware as they can get. Sure I could have gone aluminum heads, but for a street car I really didn't need all that. And these heads work pretty well for my application. I could have probably gone cheaper with alot of stuff but piece of mind was what I was looking for, as well as reliability.

 

that sounds like a good price. yeah you better be careful right now so later it doesnt break on you, just remember you get what you paid for. So you will have a sweet *** engine. i like the lack of crome.

 

Well a little bit of snafu in terms of the project. I went to replace the brakes on the car along with the suspension. However, when I got there it turns out everything needed over hauling. So I ordered up some parts from my buddies establishment. I didn't go through conventional comercial channels, as he works for an autoparts distributor to all the chains. So rather he is the one that supplies kragen, autozone, napa, southern. essentially I went to the middle man. However I got parts at a real good cost. I ended up going with power stop rotors. They are the stock 10.5 size the reason I went with these is believe it or not in this world of "blingy" large rims I actually want to keep my cars stock 15" rims. Call me crazy but I think they look good and really see no need to go larger in rim size other than maybe doing a big brake upgrade kit which requires larger rims. Hence, I just upgraded what I had. The rotors look pretty decent and are pretty beefy. All slots in the surface are generously cut, but not so deep they might affect structural integrity and induce cracking. Next up on the list was a set of upgraded ceramic pads, no they are not the hawks pads that everyone raves about, but they will suffice. Lastly I had him order me the earls stainless hyperfirm brake lines. Fit and finish was good. Came with complete instructions and I am looking forward to putting these on this weekend with the rest of the car. Other then that my a arms are currently having the bushing and ball joints pressed in. The passenger side ball joint was shot, so that may have been the source of my steering problems. However it will be all new this weekend and I am pretty stoked. I will post more pics upon completion this weekend. Till then here is some pics of its current state.

 

are those rotors bigger than the stock ones? will the hlp much?

 

They are the same size as stock because any bigger won't fit under my stock rims. I needed new rotors anyway so I figured the slots couldn't hurt.

 

 

Well after breaking one of my index fingers worked slowed on the car. However, I have been able to move quicker about it lately. Yesterday the motor was finally dropped in, along with the trans. New centerforce dual friction clutch got dropped in along with it. The spohn adjustable torque arm/tranny mount went in with out a hitch. Gotta get out there in a few and install the driveshaft as well as do more engine bay work. Pics will come shortly. Two notes though, if anyone decides to use the comp cams valve covers, part# CCA-220 then you must use an a/c delete box. I installed mine not even thinking about if I needed clearance for the valve covers, however it just so happened that it all worked out ok. Secondly if you are running edelbrock headers then the passenger side MUST be installed on the engine pre dropping it into the engine bay while the driver side be installed afterwords. Even with the a/c delete box there were two bolts I would have had a hell of a time getting to if it were not for putting it on before.

On a side note, I have just bolted down my ac delete box, I have yet to wire it up and am kinda clueless at the moment. Has anyone done this? And if so can you give me a brief run down. I am sure I can probably figure it out on my own, but if some one can lend a hand then I would be very grateful.

-Smalltires

Here is the valve covers I was referring to.

 

Well the motor is set in and just working out all the gremlins. I can honestly say this is the first time I have worked with a car with very little space in terms of engine bays. Sure I have buddies that have C5's and LS1 cars and I think those are worse, but I would never touch them for that very reason. Still have to cut out the rats nest of ac wiring which the box has now been deleted. Still have to wire that up as well. Gonna install the 6Al box and msd coil, as well as clean the engine up. Still need a better fuel line system, kinda just mocked up for now. Other things are minor and just general start up bs. Here is a teaser pic of the engine right now. I will post vids as well as finalized photos when it is all said and one which should be some time next week due to heavy school and work hours this week.
-SmallTires

 

Well today is yet another day where I want to blow the damn thing up. Got my Hurst shifter in as well as underhood autometer fuel pressure guage in. The rest of my plan was to bolt up my y-pipe to the headers and the finish bolting up the exhuast. Unfortunately couldn't find the original bolts so I have to run to the wreckers tomorrow to get them tomorrow. Hopefully I will have this thing turned over by thursday. Still need to install heater core as well. It should be a mad rush but it will get done come hell or high water. Just seems like limited space and specialty parts keep compromising quicker progress.

 

Well the car turned over this weekend. Still need to sift through the rats nest that is my under hood wiring harness. Need to chop out all the AC stuff as well as all the smog BS that is readily abundant in the engine bay. Full exhuats is on and not leaky. I still need to install the heater core as well as the manual choke, and bits here and there. The suspension is still giving me some issues from the front springs no sitting properly, but hey, at least it runs. Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5qIxpi_oYE

Other problems include its great ability to vapor lock at the moment. Ordered a three port return style regulator and some fuel line wrap becuase the headers sit very close to the lines causing my problems. Other than that next is finishing the suspension and getting it all aligned!

 

Forward progress is going good. Got the new high torque min starter in. Turns the motor over far better then the old stocker unit ever did, and with the heat sheild I installed on it, heat soak on hot start ups isn't an issue now. I developed a minor exhuast leak, but a little work and I got that banged out and fixed. Tuesday will be the fuel system modification day. I have to install a canister type filter and a new inline filter as well. I will be using a return style regulator from mallory and hopefully this will remedy my vapor lock problems and let the pump run a little bit easier. I will post pics when this is done.

 

Looking and sounding good. Continue with updates as they come along.

 

I got to a late start yesterday unfortunately so all that happened was replacing the heater core in the car. That was a three hour event in itself. The fuel system will get hooked up properly tomorrow if all goes well. Other agendas will be the braking system as well as more suspension pieces too install. I am really looking forward to driving this car after nearly a years worth of hard work. Pics will come tomorrow!