Im lost i need a new engine. and i want some effin power im not sure what do. I have a 89 Camaro RS 305 TBI. Should i just sell the car and find an Z28 and then put money into that? Or Should i spend the money on switching it over to TPI and a new motor maybe an LS1? Please help a fellow Thridgen lover out!!

 

We cant tell you what to do, its all based on your budget and your needs and wants. And of course your needs and wants are going to be greater than your budget. A high performance engine and related parts is going to start at $3500, plus the labor to install it. If you can find a TPI, LT1, or LS1 car for that price, you'd be money ahead to jump on it.

 

Depending on who you know (uncles, father, etc), if you need to worry about SMOG tests, and how much money you have you can build carbed 350 pretty cheap. Make about 300-350hp (mainly what heads you can afford to go with) on a stock used shortblock. Do some head work, throw in a slighty bigger cam, headers w/exhaust, intake and carb and you're pretty much set.
Be prepared to get nickle and dimed if you don't enough research, however.

 

This is the SoCal forum. We all have to worry about smog tests here. We cant put a carb engine in anything '88 or newer.

 

Funny im in all most the exact same boat as him i also have a 89 rs 305 TBI and dont know what to do i love my car dont get me wrong but maybe it would be smarter to sell it that way i can buy a better starting base. cause my car is kinda messed up but then again i have put a lot of work/money/ time into it including Custom kickass interior

 

Yup i know what you mean ive put a paint job on it a 4' hood on it, but i see there is z28 in the autotrader for like 5000. so im lost can't decide this sucks

 

3rd gens are all becoming "Test Only" for smog tests.
Unless you want to battle the CARB & AQMD bureaucy (sp) best to stay within your cars original limits. and changing from TBI to TPI, even though its a more efficient setup and less polluting, you have to have waivers from CARB.

Now anythnig pre 1976 is open water until you sell it.

 

I don't believe this is necessarily true...from what I know, you can swap a 92 TBI car over to TPI without any smog issues here in CA since TPI was available in our car's particular model year...RS, Z28, the submodels don't really matter. Fact is Tuned Port was available as well as TBI in a 92 Camaro. And this I was told by a very knowledgeable source...

Edit: And to answer the original poster's question, stick to the car you have. Fix it up, swap the motor over to a 350, don't mess around with the 305 if it's dead. If you want power, pick up a used 350 and have it freshened up and built into to what kind of power you want to be making. Get in touch with Dyno Don, he's on the Socal thirdgen friendly companies list. He's a very busy guy, but money talks if ya got it and you're ready to get a new engine already.

 

Get a Z.. You will be glad you did.. I get a 90 Iroc-Z

 

No Tom. Its perfectly smog legal to change any 1992 and older car into a f-body TPI setup. My dad did it on his previous car (the white '92 RS), and has done it on several other cars in this club. He's also changed his '87 El Camino from carb to TPI. As Jeremy said, its easy with an 85-92 f-body since TPI was an option already on those cars. Any other car will require a trip to the smog referee, as his El Camino did.

 

<--- its true.

BTW, whats with the Test only garbage? im from the country up in nor cal and we dont have that up there . . . is there a difference besides that they cant do any repairs or adjustments? are those the ones they stick on a dyno? and if my car is registered northern california, is it gonna make a difference?

I guess answers arent that important, im probably gonna look it up right now, but any info you have would be great.

 

Kevin
Is it that simple to change a 305 to a 350?

 

It depends on what part of the state you are from. If you are in an area where they make you put your car on the dyno for the test, then you'll get test only for your third gen. If you don't have to put it on a dyno for a standard test, you won't get test only. Personally, I like test only. I would not take a car to a standard test center even if they didn't require test only. Test only can only test the car. It is pass fail, they can't legally do any work on the car. Most places that are not test only try to lure you in with some sort of "low ball" leader, and then invent reasons for you to fail like messing with your timing in order to sell you repairs.

 

Test-Only is where they only test the car, they are not allowed to make any repairs or adjustments to get the car to pass. The state's reason is so crooked mechanics cant sell you extra stuff and make money off you to get you to pass. The reality is the test-only techs dont want to deal with modified cars because its extra hassle for them to verify the CARB stuff. If your smog tech gives you a hassle about legal mods on your car, find another one. All smog tests in this area (Ventura, LA, Orange, San Diego, and West Riverside and Southwest San Bernadino) will require them to put your car on the rollers and test it at 15 and 25 MPH. Outer areas only require a tailpipe test. You can find more info on the smog test at CA Bureau of Automotive Repair Start


Yes Tom, its that easy. Even your engine in your car is a legal swap.

 

Yep the Test Only is to protect us.. Im sure there is more good reasons for it..

 

so as far as the setup what would i need to change it over. tpi, harness and computer?

anyone want to do it for me? i'll pay them lol or if they could show me how to do it or explain it to me would be nice or point me in the right direction maybe?

 

do you have any mechanical experience?

 

somewhat ive taken some classes in college. but not alot of hands on. which this is why i would like to take on something like this.

 

You need a service manual with a good wiring diagram of your car before you start to do the conversion. I helped don convert a tbi harness to speed density tpi on my 87 T/A which started life with a carb motor. We needed to compare three wiring diagrams, to make the correct changes to my harness, and it took the two of us the better part of a day to do most of it. Don finished it up the next day. It isn't so much hard to figure out as it is tedious to do it, and you need to double and triple check each wire and connection before you do it. Then recheck it after you think you have it wired before you install anything. Once you install the wiring, finding a crossed wire becomes much harder, and it is easy to cross up wiring. The tbi computer is wired totally different than the tpi. On your car you will have two separate harnesses, a body harness and an engine harness. On the 90 and newer cars the body and engine harness are combined into one.

 

I think im just going to continue putting money in mine. i already started putting money in mine so i'll just keep doing it thanks for your help guys

 

Talk to Don to save money and not buy parts twice. Then get in line which should work out as it will take you time to aquire the parts.

 

How are these guys with crate motors passing smog? Or are they?
Seems like it would be easier to buy or rebuild a 305 block... toss on some new heads and then bolt on the old TBI unit. Granted you won't have the power but you won't have the wiring harness nightmare and the smog issues.

I'll be the first to say the 305 is weak as a dog, but I've got 160,000 miles on mine with no leaks. I've tossed many rods and spun main bearings on a 350 in my prior cars.

Seems like with the smog laws out here.... If ya wanna make your Camaro sound and perform like it should... you'll be taking it off the street and running on the track only.

But I've seen some pretty tricked out Camaros at car shows... but then again... they know a guy who knows a guy who will pass you on smog.
I just haven't found that guy yet.
Came close to finding out at Pamona Super Chevy show though.

 

You need to pay a little more attention to this board, as there are at least ten of us in the 12's and pass smog with no problems. Jerry, Vincent, James, Allen, Don, myself, James & Frank with the TTA's. Ok, maybe only 8, but there's many more not in this group. It all depends on where you get the crate motor from and how its set up. Obviously a race-only motor isnt going to pass smog, but those of us using street heads and mild camshafts (less than 230 intake duration and 112 or higher LSA) with legal headers have no problems passing smog. Besides, there arent many of us with street-drivers who are willing to put race-engines into our cars that are worth more than the car itself...
We have a smog tech we use who knows our cars, but he will not pass anything obviously illegal.

 

I'm thinking to the conversations we were having at the track, talking to all those clueless people who got rid of their smog devices to race, thinking it would make a difference...

Myself, Branden, and Alex also all pass smog, (and some of us are also potential 12 second cars.) My old 350 is running strong with 200k and all the bolt ons, on it.

You CAN make a car that will pass smog and get over 20 mpg, and be in the 12's. Without nitrous. The guys listed above have passed with flying colors. Yes, it's a challenge, but if you don't like it... register it in another state.

 

Ok for all you 12 second cars. What would you recomend me doing? I want hp!!! should i keep my car change it over to tpi and put a new engine in. or would it be easier to find a camaro that already has a 350 in it with tpi ?
if you where in my position what would you do?

 

I am in exactly your postion with a 89 camaro tbi 305(i dont run 12's however im sure you could have guessed that) but im goin to wait two or so years then buy me a new camaro with a 305 tpi 5spd or 350 tpi automatic then start my stuff cause right now most the stuff i want to do would just make me as good as those cars already are.

 

To clear up any confusion: I personally do NOT have a 12 second car!

 

To clear up some confusion about smog deleting on late model cars, You gain very little by disconnecting any devices. It when you remove them from the vehicle(the weight factor) that helps. All the smog gear and stuff adds up. But they usually don't stop there. Its everything that can be removed from the front of the car that will lighten the car and help acceleration and weight transfer for better launches. (AC, heater, manual steering, front bumper impact absorption material etc.)
When someone makes that decision , they make it with the intent that they are looking to ultimately run quicker than 12 sec. flat. Smog is a non concern and they also really don't care what people on this 3rd gen board think of their efforts to run alot quicker.
I Know I don't care what they think

 

You have two choices in regards to more power for your car. A high performance 12 second engine will cost minimum $3500, plus installation. A rebuilt 700R4 or T56 5-speed is another $1000-1500. Its pretty much a toss up, because if you sell yours and buy one with a 350 TPI you're going to spend that much anyway rebuilding that engine and trans. However, the Z28/Trans Am cars are going to have the better rear end gears, better suspension, and a better interior options.

 

so ur saying more then likely go with the z28 or iroc then right

 

Maybe...maybe not, they don't all have the good options.

 

If you were going to sell yours and get another one, you'd get one with the better options... If you can find one available.

 

Very true.. My Combo is pretty much just GMPP.. and really it's just a baby made 442rwtq on Dynojet.. This is what we had at the time.. We were suppose to use my engine but we didn't have time because we needed cars ready for Fontana.. What's important is that everything is done correct for the swap.. Right now I know my hp is down.. I have went reverse with the upcoming problems.. I have more than enough to fix the problems but Im not wanting to change the car that route right now.. This is my Smog year again.. Im that early new yr Smog car so pretty much this year it's garaged and Hit's the Grocery store when you hear a lot of performance running around.. So it should be a great tuning year for me..