On my Formula, I know springs need some time to settle after being installed, but my uncle just did 4 new springs, and the front is WAY higher than the rear...the front is so high you can see a little bit of the new strut in the wheelwell. Is this normal?? How long will the car take to settle??

Thanks for any help...

 

My guess is that the spring isn't located in the A-arm correctly. The "flat" part of the spring goes on the top with the rubber isolator, and the "coil" end on the bottom end, in the A-arm. The A-arm is molded to follow the contour of the spring and locate the spring where it should be. I'd check that out.

 

Hmmm...interesting. I will make a note of that. My uncle is a very experienced mechanic though...not some guy working in his backyard He claims it will settle...I just wanted some second opinions to see if this is a common occurance, or way off the mark. Do spring settle?? Or is this not common?? I was under the impression they did...

Thanks for the advice so far, and to anyone else who can help.

 

Any chance you are using stock A-arm bushings ?
By chance did you tighten them with the front end in the air
(not resting on the wheels )

 

Wow, this seems to be a pretty common problem on this web site. I've even had some experienced friends of mine make this mistake.

Okay, here's the deal, when changing the front springs on our cars make sure the spring goes up into the frame FIRST. Also, make sure the spring gets set in the frame correctly. There's a post in the frame that the spring HAS to fit around.

Once the spring is in the frame correctly, THEN bring the A-arm up to meet the spring and reconnect the ball joint. The car should sit correctly once it's back on the ground.

You can't place the spring in the A-arm first, then swing the assembly up into frame. The spring will end up resting against the bottom of the frame post, and you car ends up sitting high in the front. I'd have your uncle double check how the springs are sitting in the frame.

 

You can rest the bottom of the spring on the a-arm and swing it up. But you HAVE to use an inside-style spring clamp and tighten it until it bends the spring quite a bit. The spring will go up into the cavity without binding at the top. If you don't rent the tool use Bret's method. It is common for the spring to bind against the side or top center post. The car will look like a Clown Car. I tried to fix it twice and wound up taking it to a shop to have them fix it. Then I discovered the tool they use on the inside of the spring.

 

I'll be honest with you guys...like I said, my uncle put these in, and I have no clue what the procedure was that he used to put them in. I went and looked at the car again yesterday morning (its still sitting down at his shop, waiting for me to take it to another shop for an alignment), and in the daylight it didn't look nearly as far off as it did the night before.

So I guess the question remains...do springs settle?? I know the spring rates on the front of these cars is easily 50% more than the rears...therefore, wouldn't it take these longer to settle down??? Or am I dreaming? I have asked 2 other experienced mechanics this same question since first looking at the car, and both of them said that springs do need some time to settle, and that once I start driving the car, they should compress down and come very close to the rears.

I haven't taken measurements yet to see how much higher the front is versus the rear. I will take those and post them here, and see what you guys have to say...I can't answer how they were put in because I simply don't know...

Thanks for everyone's help...all I'm wondering now is if I will need him to rip the fronts back out and do something different, or if they will fall into line. They really aren't as far out of whack as I led everyone to believe (after re-reading my own post ), but they are notably higher than the front.

Thanks again for the tips...I wish I had an answer to what you guys are asking!

 

I could understand the front end sitting a little high, but you said WAY high which makes me think it's more than just a settling issue. Just my opinion.

 

On reflection, I think I overexagerated a little It looks worse than the #s reflect...here's measurements measuring from the ground to the top point on the fender arch:

RF = 28 3/8"
RR = 27 3/4"
LF = 28 1/2
LR = 27 3/4

So apparently, I'm only 3/4" max higher in the front versus the rear...it sure doesn't look that close, but a tape measure doesn't lie!!

Thanks for everyone's help...I'm just gonna go hit a few small potholes and take some fast corners, and maybe the "Firebird with a lift kit" as its being called will settle down I was just curious as to whether springs actually do this or not...I guess seeing as how I'm not THAT far off front to rear, settling will hopefully solve it...

BTW, what IS the correct ride height for a Formula, measuring from the ground to the 12:00 position on the fender arch?

 

If it's only 3/4 of an inch, then I'd say the springs are installed correctly and just need to settle.

 

i just did the springs in my friends car. the day we did them, i could stick 4 fingers between the tire and fenderwell. after a week, i can only put 3 fingers in. give it time.

 

the most important question
what kind of springs did you put in ???

 

I put in lifetime warranty TRW springs...I triple checked the parts store's computer...the fronts were listed as "Formula specific" (which as we all know do not exist, as Formies have standard issue WS6 springs), and the rears were "variable rate Trans Am/GTA springs"...

Before my uncle put them in, he compared the height with the ones he took out of the car...they matched. I would love the rear to stay right where it is, and for the front to lose about 1/2"...I'd be thrilled if they came even this close!

mrr23,
Did the front sit higher than the rear after you did them? Like I said...I'd love the rears to stay where they are, and for the fronts to settle in a bit...I'm hoping due to the fact that the spring rates are about 50% higher for the front springs, maybe they just need more time to compress to normal...

Thanks for everyone's help. This is my first project car, and I'm a perfectionist....and for a perfectionist to own this car is hard right now Maybe I'm just being neurotic, and they will settle just fine. I just want this car to look perfect when I'm all done...

Thanks again for everyone's help

 

Would these then be the CS5662 @ 700lbs per inch ?

 

urbman,

I just checked my receipt, and indeed those are the ones I got...I hope there isn't a problem with those, is there??? I take it you have experience with these???

I didn't know the damn things were THAT stiff...That's notably stiffer than stock, right?? If it is, I don't care...damn thing handles like a dream, and still manages to have a little bit of a decent ride to it!

 

No problem, TRW is a good vendor, They are the OEM
for many folks selling springs.

Several folks reported similar findings when using them
with "light" cars (aluminum heads, fiberglass hoods etc.)

Some have snipped a half a coil or so to arrive at the "look"
they were after.

You had mentioned "they matched" I have a set in my garage
that are roughly 13.25 inches long "unloaded" my
WS6 springs are roughly 14.00 inches long "unloaded".

"Stock" has no particular meaning as many different springs
with different spring rates were available to our cars. Perhaps
one of the suspension historians will chime in here.

The WS6 springs supplied for my car are the BZW springs
and I believe they have a spring rate of 548 lbs per inch.

Which rear springs did you use ?

 

The TRW rear springs I have in are the CC635s. Thanks for the tips on the front ones...

Question: Do you have experience with these? I can see what you mean when you say some who have "light" front ends have problems with them riding high...but my car has the stock hood and iron heads...will this front end sit down a little?

Also, you mentioned the stock springs you have are actually taller "unloaded." If thats the case, then technically my front end should be sitting the same or a tad lower with the new springs because the TRW units are a tad shorter...but it isn't. Any tips on this? Is it likely I'll need to have him take them back out and snip 1/2 a coil or so?? (I had already thought of this idea...)

Thanks for all your help...good to see someone knows the parts I'm working with!

 

1. No experience mine are "in the garage"


2. errr... not quite....
My calculations indicate a difference of no more than .17 inches provided that the spring rates are exactly "right" and my
"guess" at front to rear weight distribution is correct.

I won't be able to give you my results for a week or so...
(sidetracked by another issue)

As a side bar....
Are you using the oem a-arm bushings ?
These gizmos are torsional springs. The "correct" installation
is for the bolts to be torqued to spec only after the car is
fully "weighted" that is resting on all four tires.

If you tighten them with the suspension "unweighted"
you will get a decidedly raised front end.

Further you can achieve a slightly "lowered" stance
simply by having your girlfriend sit on the hood while
you tighten the bolts (good for a 1/2 inch or so)
Of course this is "not correct" in the strictest interpretation...

 

That depends on the size of your girlfiriend. lol

 

AFAIK, I am using the stock a-arm bushings. I did not supply him with new ones, nor was I billed for any. So, rather than bringing it back to him and embarrassing myself by asking him how the hell he did it (this man has restored and owned 2 first-in-class Super Chevy Show winners...a '55 Bel Air and a '70 LS6 Chevelle...I hope he knows how to put in springs!!!), I can do this myself??

So how the hell do I do this?? Sorry for such an asinine question...I love cars, but I don't really know much on how to work on them But this front end is pissing me off enough that I will undertake this myself!

Can you give me instructions as to what to look for and how the hell to do this?? Thanks again very much!

BTW...will a 126 lb girlfriend work for this exercise?? If not, I need a new woman

 

Put your car someplace flat , a nice garage floor or
some other level place (not on the street)

If you are errr slim ...
grab a trouble light and see if you can get a wrench to
the a arm bolts. If you can, loosen all four a arm bolts
(don't take them out, just loosen the nuts)

Place girlfriend on hood. Take picture. Post it here :-)

Now retighten the four nuts to 90nM

Take another picture and thank her for helping you work on the car.


If you are err "not so slim" then raise the car and put it
on jack stands, place the jack stands under the a arms
just inside (not on) the ball joints. The rear can be under the axle.
It is important to be sure the car is level (as good as you can).

loosen all four a arm bolts
(don't take them out, just loosen the nuts)

Place girlfriend on hood ....

 

Well, thanks for the tips...I'll see what happens. If they don't settle, this is the road I will have to take...

If you could do me a favor and please email me once you get yours in...let me know how your install went. Thanks again...

 

I just redid my whole front end with WS6 BZX springs in front and it did sit a bit higher than the rear for a few days. It settled probably about an inch and its almost level with the rear now. Just have to make sure they're indexed right in the A-arms and seated fully at the tops. Chances are, if anything, you'll have to just slip the spring compressor in there with the front end off the ground, tighten it up until you get the spring to move around a bit and index it properly and seat it right. Not really a big ordeal.

 

Hey, thanks for the tips!

I think he put them in last Thursday, so they've only been in not even 6 days yet. Also, I've only driven the car since Sunday night, about 120 miles. I'm still giving it time

 

I don't see how re-torquing the A-arm bolts is gonna make any difference. The bolts don't (and shouldn't) restrict the movement of the A-arms.

I still think you need to drive the car some and see how the springs settle. If after a period of time it still sits a little high you could cut a half coil of each spring to get the look you want.

 

BretD,

Thats the idea for now...just keeping my fingers crossed that it does drop the way a couple people have mentioned. If it doesn't, in another 2-3 weeks I'll bring it back and have my uncle cut out 1/2 a coil...is that the amount necessary to drop the front 3/4 to 1"??

Also, how long is a reasonable time to allow them to settle. Tomorrow it will have been a week that they've been in, and the car has been driven about 150 miles at this point...

mrr23,

I got a good chuckle today when I tried your finger theory...indeed, 4 did fit in the rear wheelwell. But if I had them on one hand, I could have fit 6-7 fingers in the front

Thanks again to everyone who has helped. Its been nice getting some insight...this is my first attempt at springs, and I have no clue WHAT they may or may not do...thanks again.

 

I believe the idea was to eliminate any preload that might've been induced in the bushings, if the a-arm bolts were tightened with the car in the air, and the a-arms hanging down (instead of level).

 

Brett says...
>>I don't see how re-torquing the A-arm bolts is gonna make any difference

The stock bushings are bonded to both the inner sleeve
and the outer sleeve. The available range of motion
is restricted by the amount of torsional flex in the rubber.

The inner sleeve gets bound to the K-member ears by the
bolt. (90nM is a lot of torque)

The general idea is to tighten the bolt so that the range of
motion is roughly equal (both up and down) when the car is
"weighted"

Aftermarket bushings behave in a completely different manner.
PST's for example are not bound to either the inner or the outer sleeve.
Although PST recomends a similar installation procedure
it doesn't make any difference.