Hi everybody. I just bought an '85 Camaro. I got a pretty decent deal on it due to the subframe being cracked around the steering box. I'm right in the middle of pulling the steering box off now so I can repair it, and I'm wondering if anybody here has undertaken this type repair before. If so, how did you do it, and how did it work out for you? I'm thinking of welding plates in on both sides, top, and bottom. Sound like a plan?
Thanks in advance,
Tony

 

Sorry guys. I just realized that this had been covered in-depth in another thread. That'll teach me to search before I post...
Hopefully I can get this fixed well enough that it doesn't become a problem again in the future. It's an otherwise fairly nice car.
Thanks,
Tony

 

Yes this is a very common problem with thirdgens. Hopefully you will get it fixed alright.

 

do you plan are purchasing a wonderbar for the car, it should keep it from cracking again.

good luck in the repair.

 

Don't put it on both sides.... the steering gear needs to stay the same distance away from the idler arm, so that the steering system geometry remains correct.

Other than that, as was said, it's one of those things that these cars seem to need alot.

 

I've done this repair before. Tried welding the crack. The most important thing though was adding a wonderbar and the triangular braces from the front subframe to the crossmember. Even with the crack still there, the bracing made a huge difference.

 

Thanks for the tips guys! The repair is progressing nicely now that everything is unbolted and out of the way. If nothing else, this has served to remind me how much I hate welding overhead. As for throwing off the steering geometry, we've decided to plate top, bottom and the outside, and just weld the crack on the steering box side. Hopefully that will work out.
I do plan on installing a wonderbar, as a matter of fact, I've got the tubing and plates sitting in the corner of the garage ready to be welded together (fabricating it myself). I'm curious about the triangular braces mentioned though. Does anybody have a pic of them installed that they could post?
Thanks Again,
Tony

 

I'm working on that for you. Should be able to have some info tomorrow. I used to have pics of them installed, an exploded diagram, and GM part numbers. I can't find any of it right now though . Don't give up on me yet!

 

No rush. I'm probably going to have another day or so in making the repairs to the frame itself.
Thanks for the help.
Tony

 

Ok, here's what's up. I did the repair and added all of the bracing to my previous car. Unfortunately, I got rid of most of the paperwork I had accumulated with it when I got rid of the car. So, I don't have the part numbers and such anymore. I tried to take a picture of the brace on my current thirdgen, but I have a sucky camera. So, I'll try explaining where they go. If you slide under the front of your car, you'll be looking in the corners formed between the front of the crossmember under the engine and the frame rails on either side. On the driver's side, this will be just aft of the steering box. I don't recall any landmark for the pass. side. There will be a few holes (approx 3/8"?) in both the crossmember and the frame rails. These are where the braces mount. If I remember correctly, there are two holes per brace on the front of the crossmember, and one on each frame rail. There are plates inside each hole that you can tap in order to bolt the brackets in place. I couldn't find any good bracket pics, but maybe somebody with a parts CD could provide P/Ns for us. I ordered mine thru the dealer and found them on the diagrams while looking over the parts guy's shoulder.

 

Ok, I'll have a look when I slide under it to finish repairing the underside of the frame. I might have to check the junkyards in the next day or so to see if I can find a set. The reason I was looking for pictures is that I'm a little short on cash right now, but I've got plenty of left over steel (angle, tube, plate, etc) from my last project. If I can see how they're made and how they bolt up, I can most likely build them myself.
Thanks Again,
Tony

 

I'd try to grab some at a junkyard then, if you don't want to buy them new. If you do decide to try to make them, it wouldn't be hard. Just a triangle (right triangle or close to it) with flanges welded onto the short legs. You'd just have to drill some holes in those flanges to match the holes in the car.

 

Like this?
I did some more searching
Tony

 

Where'd you find that? I looked and looked but couldn't find any info on those . I wasn't aware of the third one (far right). Where does it go?

Congrats on the find though, that's what I've been looking for.

 

Here's where I found the pic. https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...=rear+sway+bar
I saw mention of this post in another post I ran across while searching. I re-read it, and there was no mention of where the mysterious third brace goes. The pics are enough to give me an idea for fabricating the two you mentioned though. Maybe some 2x2x1/4" angle.
Thanks,
Tony

 

Looks like you're just a better searcher than I am. I checked out that thread and found somebody saying where the third brace goes. Sounds like it goes on the outboard side of the frame rail on the driver's side, ahead of the wheel in the fender area. I've not noticed that one before, although I know my current thirdgen came with the other two. I'll have to go see if I can find that third one. Maybe you can't see it without removing the plastic inner fender lining....

Sounds like you've got a good idea what you're looking at fabricating. Let us know how it goes.

 

Well, I got everything back together tonight and took a test drive over a particularly twisty stretch of road. It didn't feel like the frame was flexing one bit!
I didn't even mess with building the triangle braces. I just built a wonderbar out of some 3x3x1/4" angle and a piece of gas line pipe. Due to the cracks, it used to flex enough that it took 3/4 to 1/2 a turn on the wheel to compensate. Now, with the cracks welded and the wonderbar installed, it feels just as tight as the 4th gen I used to have. Now all I need is an alignment and some new tires and I'll be all set.
Thanks Mike and everybody for the ideas and support!
Tony

 

Great!!

Here's where they go, on my rather filthy old car.... I just took a long road trip (Detroit and back), it needs a bit of cleanup

 

OBTW .... the mystery brace is the top pic. For some reason it's only on the driver's side, but all but one of the holes that would be needed to put one on the pass side are there too, at least on my car.

I doubt that 3rd one does a whole lot, but the other 2 have a noticeable effect.

 

Hmm... I haven't even noticed if my IROC has these. Were they a later addition to the 3rd gens or just hit or miss?

Okay.. I understand the one of the braces bolts right beside the steering box, on the outside of it.

Any other pics of how the other two bolt in? I would just go to the junkyard, but it's been raining for a WEEK SOLID, and it's a PIT. I'll check my 87 IROC parts car for these braces.


I figure w/ the wonderbar, and the STB, I mine as well add these three braces , every lit bit helps these wet noodles :P




Thanks

 

Considering the way the rail was twisting under a steering load, I'd say that the brace in the top pic might help out quite a bit. As for the other two, I could probably get the one for the passanger side in, but it looks like some of my weld is in the way of mounting the driver side one. Thanks for the pics though, that gives me some good ideas of what to build for a future project. For now I think I'm just going to enjoy having a car that actually doesn't feel like a death trap...
Thanks again,
Tony

 

That could be true, except that the metal that it hooks to is about the thickness of aluminum foil.

The pics show all the bolts for the 2 smaller braces. There's only 3 per. The pics are both taken from directly underneath, looking straight up; so the one has the Pitman arm in it, and the other has the idler arm. They bolt into the front surface of the K-member with 2 bolts, and to the "frame" section of the unibody with the other bolt.

 

I was thinking the same thing about the unibody rail as I was blowing holes in it.
This is definately the last time I'll try to use pure argon for steel welding. 75/25 works so much better.
Tony