hey, my 87 camaro doesnt ride that great in the front.....im guessing its cuz of the unibody setup and the fact that the front end may need to be rebuilt. so how much will i spend on good urethene parts for the rebuilding of my front end? im already gettin sub frame connectors. thanks in advance you guys rock!

 

depends on what you want and how much you can afford. i love how my car ran with my old setup and it wasn't to expensive. new springs and struts will make a huge improvement in the ride.

thicker sway bars and new bushings will tighten up the feel when turning.

new steering components will help with the overall feel of the front end and get rid of the common "slop" that you feel when going over bumps or turning.

i'd go with moog steering components and bushings since they offer the most value for the money. eibach springs and bilstein struts if you can afford it. some of the cheaper struts work just as well in the beginning but won't hold up for long so you have to justify what you need with what you can afford.

i have a set of newer koni adjustables and eibach pro-kit front springs for sale for cheap if your interested. you can find 1-le sway bars in junkyards for cheap if you don't have them already and you can check over at pst for their updated pricing on the front end steering pieces. last time i checked they had the best prices. i ended up going with gm pieces which work really good but it was costly. i'd just stick to moog if i had to do it again.

good luck!

 

I know most everyone on this board is a huge fan of poly bushings in the suspension, but I'm sorry, I'm not.

This is not opinion, this is fact, poly binds the suspension alot easier than rubber. When I start replacing bushings, they will be rubber, excepting the front control arm bushings, I might spring for the Del a lum, or I might go Moog....big price difference.


To rebuild the front suspension, you'll need the following...

I'm listing all MOOG brand parts, you might save a few $$ on buying the brand carried at the local parts store, but on suspension products I use Moog....I'll squeeze my pennies from somewhere else...


Centerlink DS1049 ------------------------ $59.45
Idler Arm K6249 -------------------------- $49.91
(2) Inner Tie Rod ends ES2227RL ----- $39.29 x 2
(2) Outer Tie Rod ends ES2226RL ------ $30.15 x 2
(2) Adjusting Sleeves ES2032S -------- $8.20 x 2
(2) Balljoints K6145T ------------------ $19.47 x 2
________________________________________

Now the prices I used are the current prices from www.rockauto.com . TOTAL SHIPPED to your door is UNDER $320.00

I've dealt with RockAuto, and not only does their website have one of the best parts look up catalogs, their prices beat everyone, and they DON'T rob you on shipping.


Front struts and rear shocks seem to be mainly personal preference.

I have an IROC w/ 17" wheels ( getting tossed in favor of 16" GTA wheels SOON ) and wide rubber, and the stock springs are pretty firm from the factory. I ended up going with KYB GR2 struts cause I scored 'em cheap with LOW miles on 'em. Nice improvement.

When I get other things taken care of, and go back through the suspension, I'll more than likely go with Bilstein struts and shocks....if not for the simple fact of the HUGE difference they made on several other cars I installed them on vs. other aftermarket brands.

I'm gonna try some KYB rear shocks pretty soon, but it's all about ride quality and driver preference.


If I have one suggestion , and I'm guilty of this too, as are most new owners of cars they want to modify to perform better...

We always think of power, or beautification mods first, in REALITY, we should be concentrating on making sure the brakes and suspension are in the best shape possible.


Now that I finally got the 5 speed swapped into my IROC, I'm going to concentrate on the front steering / suspension, and then go from there as time / $$$ allows.


HTH

 

So true ctandc... "Power is nothing without control".

 

i have to agree, i went with the stock rubber setup as well. i don't care for the poly bushings. i have them in some places but only because that's the way the parts came.

 

thanks for all the good info....keep it comin. i was wondering why you guys prefer the rubber over the poly bushings? most of what i hear is use poly not rubber, but anything would seem better after takin off the old rubber that came stock. iunno let me know what you think.

 

IT all comes down to the SAME thing...

It's just like taking off the worn out factory distributor cap / rotor and replacing it with a MSD or Accel type. OF COURSE the engine ran better afterwards, the stock one was trashed...but how much better would it have run if the cap was a new factory replacement?

Most times when people use Poly bushings, they are replacing worn out, useless factory pieces well beyond their service life. So of course it's a night and day difference....

Poly just binds to much for me....that's what makes all the noise.



It's just my preference...


HTH

 

i have to agree....

the ones i've driven with poly make a bit to much noise and i never felt a real difference with mine when it had all new rubber other than they make alot less noise and i don't feel vibrations as much.

 

Sorry to resurrect this old thread but I'm desperately in need of a front end rebuild and I need some info.

I recently (last week!) replaced the idler arm with a Moog part. Also swapped the stock struts for Koni yellows. Haven't touched anything else.

The alignment shop I took it too afterwards said the ball joints were bad and needed to be replaced as well. My friend who helped with the idler arm said the center link was on its way out too. The car has 120,000 miles on it and I'm thinking I should probably just get the whole front end rebuilt at this point (as well as install the rear Koni shocks!).

My problem is that I'm guilty of what you had said before, about owners wanting to upgrade for power and forgetting about suspension and stuff. I don't know anything about this part. Your list of what needs to be replaced is very handy (since I already have the idler arm I have one less part to buy) but I'm confused about the bushings. You said you recommend rubber bushings. Where can I get those? Or do the new Moog parts come with rubber bushings?

My other problem is that since I don't have a job I'm on a very limited budget. Might not actually be ready to buy anything yet but at least I'll be informed.

Thanks a bunch.

 

I just did a full rebuild on my suspension, and used the Energy Suspension poly bushings. So far, no squeaks! I lubed the hell outta those things. They come already assembled (outer shell, bushing, middle sleeve for bolt), but the instructions say to take them apart, lube them, and put them back together- which I did. It just took a vise, a hammer, a center punch (for the bolt sleeve), and a length of pipe (for teh bushing itself) to take them apart. They slid back together easily.

In fact, as the instructions in the bushings said, I installed the sleeves to the control arm first. Then I pressed the bushings in by hand. For the rear leg (short/fat bushing), I pushed the bushing in, then pushed the center sleeve in. For the front leg (long/thin bushing), I had to push the center sleeve into the bushing first, and then push the bushing/sleeve assembly into the shell by hand.

Here was my full parts list: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=184552 And if you click on the little "search" button below this message, under my message, you'll see all my recent posts.. I have a ton of info up on how I rebuilt my suspension. (If you do a real search, limit it to the suspension/chassis/brakes forum!)

 

Ok, before I get any further, dumb question time:


What are bushings and where do they go?

 

Same here.

Did the front about 18 months ago with Energy Suspensions kit. So far no squeaks. Used a lot of #5 grease on the bushings. In the process of doing the rear suspension now.

 

I was paranoid about squeaks... we hear squeaks and think "Cool, a polyurethane rebuild kit!" The average person hears squeaks and thinks "That car's a piece of junk!"

Bushings "in general" are insulators between two pieces of moving steel. They allow for movement without any binding/seizing.

So there's bushings inside all the control arms, front AND rear, where the bolts go thru. The bushing goes into the control arm. The "sides" of the bushing touch the frame of the car. The bolt goes thru the frame of the car and the center of the bushing.

If you slide under your rear axle and look at the control arms that connect the sides of the axle to the frame of the car, look at the ends of the control arm from below (using a mirror). You'll see the sides of the bushings.

 

Ok, that's what I thought about bushings.

So when parts like the Moog ones are bought they don't come with bushings? They have to be bought seperately?

 

I rebuilt my front suspension with Moog joints and Energy Suspension poly bushings. If you grease the ploy parts up when you install them, and also at regular intervals (as it saays in the instructions) they won't squeak. They don't isolate noise as well as rubber, but they don't deflect as bad either. I had replaced mine with GM rubber ones when I bought the car and they were pretty good, but when I lowered my car with the Belltech spindles I developed a severe tire rub when my suspension compressed. (I know that had nada to do with bushings) I looked into all kinds of things, but ended up going with Napa (I think they are re-packaged Moog) super heavy duty springs and GR-2 struts in the front and while I had the control arms off I stepped up to the ploy bushings to improve steering feel when hammering corners. They made a big difference when combined with the new springs and struts. They are noticeable firmer, and that is what I wanted. If you don't mind a little more road noise, and having a couple extra tasks to do on every other oil change, go with the poly's. If you want a good ride and performance without the raod noise and extra hassle, go with GM rubber. One more thing to keep in mind, road salt effects rubber far worse than poly. That is a factor for me, since I drive my car year round (except if there is any sonw at all on the ground)