today i went to go get an alighiment. well they said that they couldnt do it because my ball joints need to be replaced and my tie rods need to be replace as well. do you think 500 is to much to do it. its going to take him about 4hrs to do. labor is included he said somthing about free play? so what do you think??

 

I just had my outer tie rods done. $35 each -Canadian
takes like 15 minutes per each.

 

did you do it? i also have to get my idle arm and ball joints changed as well. was it pretty easy or what???

 

I've done my idler arm and tie rod ends myself, and I'm 17 years old Took me a couple hours for it all cuz I was doing it with some of the wrong tools..but I got it all together. If you do it yourself, just make sure you get the threads close to how they were, and that way your alignment won't be *TOO OFF* to drive on.

Buy new adjusting sleeves as well and might as well replace all 4 tie rod ends...they aren't that expensive. Idler arm isn't too bad either. Ball joints are a bit more work and I just had my shop do the one for like $50 or something like that. He gives me deals though, he originally wanted $90 for one or $160 to do both..

 

A tie rod end separator helps a lot too. They have some pretty cool automatic ones as well taht you hook up to compressed air and works a lot quicker. Otherwise its like a big beveled fork that you slam into the tie rod ends with a hammer. Can be rented from any local parts store..

 

so overall its easy?? i know alot about engine not a whole lot about the suspension thats my weak point i know i need a fork tool for the ball joints any other specail tools for anything else? does the tie rods need specail tool?? can you also give me a pictures of the tool i need?? PLZ!!! it would be a big help. you guys are making my day

 

Besides getting the joints apart with the pickle fork, it is easy with one exception: the ball joints. Once you get the spindle up off the ball joint, you have to have the old ball joint pressed out of the a-arm, and the new ball joint pressed in. You could simply take the whole a-arm off and let a shop do that for you to save on labor. The idler arm and tie rods you can do yourself with no problem. Moog ball joints should run around $40 each as well as Moog tie rod ends. I can't remember the price of a new idler arm. Whatever you decide, you'll probably want new rubber and an alignment up front when you're done. Good Luck!!

 

Wow, $500? Yeah, that's too much- can you do the work yourself?

Moog ball joints, $21/each from Summit Racing
Moog outer tie rod, $36/each from Summit
Moog inner tie rod, $47/each from Summit
Moog adjuster sleeves, $12/each from Summit
Moog idler arm, $56
Moog center link, $66

Total so far, $354. And I'm willing to bet that shop isn't using Moog, since Moog costs more.

You don't really need a tie rod fork for separating the tie rod ends since you're removing them! But you will need the fork to separate the pitman arm from the center link. Leave the whole linkage assembled (outer tie rods + sleeves + inner tie rods + center link), and use it as a guide for your overall "length" of your new parts. Also, make sure the clamps on the adjusting sleeves don't hit the frame when you turn the wheel. Best bet is to have a buddy slowly turn the steering wheel (after everything's together, with the front wheels in the air), and make sure nothing hits. Remember that the adjusting sleeve clamps shouldn't be overtightened.

Locally, those forks run about $15/each. You'll also need a torque wrench and the torque specs. (Don't guess at the tightness for the steering linkage!!!)

See this message of mine for part numbers: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=184552

Rebuilding the linkage was the easiest part of my rebuild.

Honestly tho I'd get a second opinion. Tie rods usually don't wear out, it's usually just the center link and idler arm.

 

I disagree. I've had to replace them on both my cars so far. One was a Chrysler R&P steering setup and the other my '88 T/A.

Actually, once I removed the one outer end on this car I just wiggled the little joint and the ball came right out.. All I had to do was hit one more bump on my way home that day and my car would've been off the road because of a busted tie rod end. The joints at the end of the rods DO wear and should be regularly greased. The guy that brought my car from Indiana was lucky it didn't go out on him while going 70mph+ on the highway..

However, I will agree taht the center link and idler arm tend to wear faster than the tie rod ends..

 

Actually Tom, the centerlink cant wear out, its just a bar, it can bend possibly, but it wont wear.

For my two cars the tie rods were the things that wore out and on the camaro the idler arm started wearing out as well.


Chris

 

i kinda figured that tie rods cant wear out???? so what do you think he ment by that?? you might be in for the money for sho!!! im going to get another estamint. it looks like im going to do it my self its just that i have no time at all i got school and work. This sucks cause i was saving up for performace parts for my car. all that over time for something that wont gain anypower thanks guys for the advise i will be back to tell you how everything went.

 

How can you guys say that tie rod ends don't wear out? Or the centerlink? Why do you think people replace them if they don't wear out. The all have little ball joints in them, and the little ball joints DO wear out and need replacing (I'm not talking about the actual "ball joints"...I'm talking about the little joints on the ends of the tie rod ends and centerlink.

Though you won't gain any performance, if you need that much work in your suspension, once you get it fixed, it will be like driving a different car.

I'd recommend replacing any bushings with poly pieces from Energy Suspension or another company. The rear swaybar endlinks make a HUGE difference. I haven't done my front swaybar endlinks just yet, but that will be soon.

EDIT: Also, btw, TomP is right in that usually it is the idler arm and centerlink to wear out first. However, depending on mileage, everything else can be worn as well. I badly needed a new outer tie rod end, centerlink, and idler arm when I bought my car and it only had 78k miles on it. The idler arm wears quickly because it is just there as a support bar to keep the geometry. The centerlink is the part in the middle that also takes the most abuse because it has to handle things from both wheels, whereas the tie rod ends themselves only control one wheel..

Like I said, I'd say just replace everything. That way you don't have to worry about any steering components for a long time, and your car will be much tighter.. Might as well throw a wonderbar on there too while you're under there..

 

The centerlink doesn't wear out because there are no 'joints' or moving parts on it. It is just a bar that the rest of the steering componets get bolted to to transfer movement. It can get bent which is the reason it gets replaced,

Chris

 

all the car centerlinks ive ever seen have joints part of them

actually its the 63-87 full size trucks that dont have joints in the centerlink bar

they just have four tapered holes in them, two towards each end, two for the TRE's to pass through and oe ofr the pitman arm joint to pass through and the fourth for the idler arm joint to pass through

RWD cars arent like this, s-10's either


on the trucks ive seen mostly worn out boxes and worn out idler or pitman arms, but ive never run into some real horrible TRE's but i have heard of them breaking and sending vehicle across or off the road :O

hope any of that helps

 

Nevermind I was wrong, they do have joints on the outer connections and just holes on the inner connections for the tie rods.

Sorry

 

He's BSing you, sure, california is expensive to get things done, BUT, $500 for tie rods and ball joints? Look at the price of the highest quality MOOG parts that were already quoted, $21 for the ball joints and $47 for the most expensive tie rods. Most likely they are getting their parts from carquest or something like that so they are using overpriced foreign made junk.

Let's put it this way, if you were willing to drive to walnut creek (contra costa county) I would replace your ENTIRE steering linkage (done before and I can prove it) for $100 with whatever parts you want. I'd recommend moog if you plan on keeping your car for the long haul, but TRW (same company) makes some cheaper parts that are nearly as good.

In the end, $500 for just the tie rods and ***** joints is a ripoff. It seems that in california all car service places think all their customers are morons and try to rip them off. PM me with your phone # and I can call you with some advice. BTW, just to set the alignment, they don't need to replace those parts, just if they are really shot it's a good idea.

 

Sure that figure seems expensive and to most of us, thats just insane. But don't forget shops are in business to MAKE MONEY. They make money on parts AND labor. WHat's their shop rate $70+ an hour. Okay so like $200 in parts at the most, 4 hrs labor, if that is the appropriate labor time for the job, $280(or more!)= $480+tax. It adds up quick. And for what its worth, that sounds about right for a regular, old repair shop...

Just do the parts replacement yourself and take it over for the alignment. The tie rods and idler(might as well change it now!) are cake to change. The ball joints are a bit tedious your first time, but can be done!!

 

No reputable shop will align a car with bad TRE's. They can't guarantee the alignment specs then beacuse the TRE's are what control the toe-in of the alignment. Well, its the sleeves, but if there is play in the TRE joints, then the toe-in is variable. Not the safest to drive with, nor the best on your tires, and an alignment would be useless. Just Tires actually did align my tires a while back on my old car with a bad ball joint but they told me they wouldn't guarantee the alignment and that it would probably fall out of alignment sooner rather than later because of the bad ball joint.